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Castrol Power 1

Hot days = molten tar = slip/slide.

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Track Day @ MMSC Chennai - June 26th

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  • #16
    Guys, me too had a good time in tracks. couldn't find time to put a complete first time track experience write up.
    I was running on 28 psi in front and 33 in t rear when t tires were cold.
    @ wonderboy - thanks for the little piece of advice you gave regarding the position of the legs when taking turns...that helped a lot. Also only in the last few laps, i downed the air pressure a bit. That did wonders.
    The best time in the track was 2.34 the highest speed i shot was 129 in speedo in the back straight. Will pen down the complete track day experience tonight.:-)

    @ camillie - it was me in a blue R15 with a red helmet who was trail braking through the turns.

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    • #17
      More tire pressure usually results in more grip in the dry conditions. However this also increases the tire's effective weight but I don't know if it will have any major effect on handling. Contrary to beliefs...less tire pressure doesn't equate to more grip unless you're talking about wet conditions. Handling is also compromised if tire pressures are dropped.
      Kriss : 15.06.1981 - 11.10.2009
      You will not be forgotten...RIP

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      • #18
        Originally posted by gsferrari View Post
        More tire pressure usually results in more grip in the dry conditions. However this also increases the tire's effective weight but I don't know if it will have any major effect on handling. Contrary to beliefs...less tire pressure doesn't equate to more grip unless you're talking about wet conditions. Handling is also compromised if tire pressures are dropped.
        I dont completely agree with you. During all my corners, especially the high speed ones, the rear was bouncing. Also i could feel my rear slip if i try take in the corners a bit more aggressive. Correction of lines with the brakes during the turn was also a bit tricky. A couple of PSI less, i was able to push the bike more.

        Actually Correct tyre pressure is required for best results. However i feel its a game of compromise. If running a little low on tyre pressure, you get the Grip in the corners and you can carry more speeds in and through the corners, but your straight line speed will be less due to more friction due to increased contact patch.

        Again decreased tyre pressure give more top speed in straight, but you cannot push in the corners. Corners should be taken butter smooth... Or you end up loosing the rear.

        I am not the best rider, but i am a quick learner. During the end of the session, my lines were pretty stabilised. I was just falling in to the rhythm, but was running very low on fuel. Also after seeing a couple of R15 crashing, i wasnt in no mood to push harder. Didnt want to crash my bike on the first track day..

        Waiting eagerly for the next track day. Wonderboy, what you say ????
        Last edited by GP_freak; 07-27-2009, 03:47 PM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by GP_freak View Post
          During all my corners, especially the high speed ones, the rear was bouncing
          You have bigger problems than tire pressures if the rear is bouncing. Suspension too soft perhaps. What is your weight and what bike are you riding?

          When I say "higher pressure" - I obviously mean within the recommended pressure range.

          Also i could feel my rear slip if i try take in the corners a bit more aggressive. Correction of lines with the brakes during the turn was also a bit tricky. A couple of PSI less, i was able to push the bike more
          Using the correct line from the beginning will eliminate all the above activities that simply slow you down.

          If running a little low on tyre pressure, you get the Grip in the corners and you can carry more speeds in and through the corners, but your straight line speed will be less due to more friction due to increased contact patch.
          Using the higher end of the tire pressure range will help the tire maintain it's "form" despite the forces being applied to it - therefore resulting in better performance. Lowering the pressure allows greater deviation from the "intended form" therefore resulting in less performance. Cornering with lower tire pressures is too vague and not at all confidence inspiring

          This is what I have experienced and there is more speed to be made with suspension tweaking.

          Anyway - not trying to split hairs with you on this...just sharing a different point of view.

          What were the gains in lap-times before and after the tire pressure change?
          Kriss : 15.06.1981 - 11.10.2009
          You will not be forgotten...RIP

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          • #20
            I saw more cameras than bikes..so where are the pics?
            TVS 50 XL -> 125 XXL : TVS VICTOR GL : YAMAHA R15-S : YAMAHA FZ1n :: KTM RC 390

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            • #21
              Originally posted by GP_freak View Post
              A couple of PSI less, i was able to push the bike more.
              Is maybe because you was more comfortable for pushing more?

              Maybe need to do that (tire pressure change) when lap timing is stabilized for checking how much difference...

              I don't know if we can feel the difference if staying in pressure range for these tires (at least at the beginning because too many other parameters to feel)...

              Maybe better to work on trajectory and keep tire pressure to normal range... (at the beginning) and also arriving in a turn more slowly for having more accuracy on trajectory, when the trajectory will be assimilated then pushing little more....

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              • #22
                Originally posted by GP_freak View Post
                Again decreased tyre pressure give more top speed in straight, but you cannot push in the corners.
                you are saying the opposite. For better corner grip, u need a slightly lower pressure. But the trump card is in knowing what pressure is the right pressure. On a hot day and cold day, tire pressure will vary.
                Your tire pressures were way too high from what I read. You rode an R15, I guess?
                sigpic
                [email protected]

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Joel View Post
                  you are saying the opposite. For better corner grip, u need a slightly lower pressure. But the trump card is in knowing what pressure is the right pressure. On a hot day and cold day, tire pressure will vary.
                  Your tire pressures were way too high from what I read. You rode an R15, I guess?
                  Pressure will vary, sure . But do you have an idea about the variation ? On the track condition ? Is pressure variation will make enough change for feeling it?

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                  • #24
                    Hi guys...this track day was one of my best and also served as a good learning experience. It had the perfect conditions to ride and i started riding as usual in the begining and picked up pace gradually.

                    I felt much comfortable riding along with vicky (punisher) for a few laps.But the biggest mistake i felt was when i pushed the bike a bit hard towards the last few laps , eventually crashing at C11.

                    Now the bike is lying at the workshop , awaiting insurance claim.Almost all the plastic parts on the right hand side need to be changed, including a handle bar and fork bend.But,i guess its all a part of the learning experience!

                    @punisher: Good to meet you too man, you were the perfect company to ride with! and like you said, Expect the unexpected!!!

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                    • #25
                      Air pressure is not defined. Its dynamic. Again air pressure varies based on factors like rider weight, bike weight, track demand, weather conditions, tire compound, suspension set-up, weight distribution of bike, engine power etc.
                      Racers have a standard template that they follow based on testing at various track. At Kari, we keep x-psi and at MMSC it changes, even if the conditions are similar.
                      Air pressure change will make a rider make or gain laptimes. Top riders will benefit or loose with even pressure changes as low as 1-2psi.
                      It will not matter much to a novice as riding will need to be further optimised.
                      However to begin with, starting with the right air pressure will help gain more confidence thru corners and reduce the risk of a slide. Again tire conditions will matter a lot. Riding on the streets and racing down the circuit will not help if you are dead serious about setting laptimes. A race tire has to used on the race track only.
                      sigpic
                      [email protected]

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                      • #26
                        @Joel : ok, agree with you.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by GP_freak View Post
                          Actually Correct tyre pressure is required for best results. However i feel its a game of compromise. If running a little low on tyre pressure, you get the Grip in the corners and you can carry more speeds in and through the corners, but your straight line speed will be less due to more friction due to increased contact patch.

                          Again decreased tyre pressure give more top speed in straight, but you cannot push in the corners. Corners should be taken butter smooth... Or you end up loosing the rear.
                          My Bad, I have just penned down two completely Contradicting statements.. I was lost in my official work, i just missed what i came to tell. The corrected one below. Probably i should quit browsing from my N73.

                          Again increased tyre pressure give more top speed in straight, but you cannot push in the corners. Corners should be taken butter smooth... Or you end up loosing the rear.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by kirankumar.s View Post
                            Hi guys...this track day was one of my best and also served as a good learning experience. It had the perfect conditions to ride and i started riding as usual in the begining and picked up pace gradually.

                            I felt much comfortable riding along with vicky (punisher) for a few laps.But the biggest mistake i felt was when i pushed the bike a bit hard towards the last few laps , eventually crashing at C11.

                            Now the bike is lying at the workshop , awaiting insurance claim.Almost all the plastic parts on the right hand side need to be changed, including a handle bar and fork bend.But,i guess its all a part of the learning experience!

                            @punisher: Good to meet you too man, you were the perfect company to ride with! and like you said, Expect the unexpected!!!
                            Nice to meet you too kiran.. we need good company to improve our talents.. otherwise it will go into aggressive mode.. where we will show im the best than him.. we will meetup in the next track day and have fun.. take care of you.. and your ride..

                            @all: to be honest with lower tyre pressure i felt much better.. its only my point of view.. cuz im a pulsarian whos running on a zapper.. with hard suspension settings.. i know how to control my ride.. with a limit set in my mind..

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by gsferrari View Post
                              You have bigger problems than tire pressures if the rear is bouncing. Suspension too soft perhaps. What is your weight and what bike are you riding?
                              My weight is 77~79. Depends up on the weight training . I was riding an R15. I know its a pretty pathetic pace of 2.34 for full track in R15, but i had to live with it. My escapism route - Am a newbie to track

                              Originally posted by gsferrari View Post
                              When I say "higher pressure" - I obviously mean within the recommended pressure range.
                              The recomended tyre pressure is for normal commuting. This is decided after taking account of things like the added weight of the pillion. Pulsars have two specific tyre pressure range. A reduced one for singles and a slightly higher one for doubles. But the recomended pressure for 15 is 33 in the rear whether its a single riding or with pillion.

                              Originally posted by gsferrari View Post
                              Using the correct line from the beginning will eliminate all the above activities that simply slow you down.
                              Completely Agreed, but when i was pushing in C3, i am loosing lines.

                              Originally posted by gsferrari View Post
                              Using the higher end of the tire pressure range will help the tire maintain it's "form" despite the forces being applied to it - therefore resulting in better performance. Lowering the pressure allows greater deviation from the "intended form" therefore resulting in less performance. Cornering with lower tire pressures is too vague and not at all confidence inspiring
                              A couple of PSI doesnt harm. Actually it gives a smooth ride even within the city. If you still dont agree with me, try over inflating your front and rear tyre, It will still hold its shape despite the forces being applied,let me know what happens to the ride , the front will bounce.... Reason ? At optimum tyre pressure, the tyre is rigid enough to hold its form and at the same time it also has some flexibility to absorb the small undulations in the road. Just try it out and give me your feedback.

                              BTW, lower is a comparitive term. I didnt mean low air pressure...

                              Originally posted by gsferrari View Post
                              This is what I have experienced and there is more speed to be made with suspension tweaking.

                              Anyway - not trying to split hairs with you on this...just sharing a different point of view.

                              What were the gains in lap-times before and after the tire pressure change?
                              You are right about suspensions. Being a pulsarian for 5 years, i know what it means..Before the redution of air pressure,It was not timed dude...Only last four laps were timed... Am plannin to stiffen the suspensions in the 15. Not sure how to do that in the rear, it doesnt require too, but the front has to be stiffened... Any ideas how ??

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                              • #30
                                @gpfreak : with a pulsar stock ive did my best dude.. and im not sure bot the R15s Monoshock settings.. u shud try asking wondeyboy.. i think already the r15s stock are soft only.. comparing to rest of bikes..

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