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**bprags** · 02-07-2012, 03:24 PM

Originally posted by prateek2210 View Post

No offense, but if you know every top notch official of companies why don't you suggest someone more knowledgeable for TVS.

how I wish they listened to people, if they had, they wouldn't have been knocked off from the 3rd largest seller to 4th.

Their present products are a direct result of their management, tell me one exciting product in their lineup, when was the last time the RTR was upgraded? They launched the ABS in the same looking RTR without any exterior changes, visual appeal is the first impression and they have to realize that, look at the Pulsar 200 thread, people havent even ridden the bike, but the visual impact created is amazing. Take for example hero they launched the Impulse, TVS has been in motocross for ages, but not one single product came in that category from them.

Make no mistake I presently own two TVS products and all the above is pure frustration due to TVS's inability to lead from front.

Regarding your original query, TVS is testing a 200+cc bike, but I dunno if that will come out this year coz of the pulsar 200NS's smashing specs, they might have to go back to the drawing board. I can get some confirmed news in a couple of weeks time.

**aargee** · 02-07-2012, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by bprags View Post

how I wish they listened to people... frustration due to TVS's inability to lead from front

+million times!!!

Basically TVS is scared as nervous cat to take risk; atleast that's what it shows or probably they want to minimize risk by focusing too much on commuter segment (or unwilling to make one on the premium segment). They've so many variants on their best selling models (read sticker job) Star City. Guess Jive didn't take off as expected or for whatever reasons, RTR, despite looking & sounding a good ride, hasn't seen much upgrade like you said. The triple spark plug is more than a threat to several rides out there.

**Nithesh** · 02-07-2012, 07:07 PM

What people fail to realize is, TVS works indigenously, Unlike Hero/Bajaj it doesnt have a foreign brand investing into its R&D.
Correct me if im wrong!

Just think of it this way, maybe TVS was waiting for the new pulsar to come out so they can do some final changes on their high end product to gain upper hand in the competition?

**Samarth 619** · 02-07-2012, 08:12 PM

Originally posted by Nithesh View Post

What people fail to realize is, TVS works indigenously, Unlike Hero/Bajaj it doesnt have a foreign brand investing into its R&D.
Correct me if im wrong!

Just think of it this way, maybe TVS was waiting for the new pulsar to come out so they can do some final changes on their high end product to gain upper hand in the competition?

Nobody stopped them from investing abroad. They should do it, at least get some engineering R&D personnel from Japan, if not the entire company.

Now, TVS don't have much of a choice when it comes to the new RTR: Now, even 20 bhp is inadequate for them, forget about matching 56 kmpl even in test conditions.

Their ONLY trump card is "more power & lesser weight". In both these aspects, they can beat Pulsar hands down, if they put in their full efforts. Think about it: A 25 bhp, 140 kgs RTR 220/200 for under 1L... (forget the mileage though.)

**payeng** · 02-07-2012, 10:51 PM

Originally posted by Nithesh View Post

What people fail to realize is, TVS works indigenously, Unlike Hero/Bajaj it doesnt have a foreign brand investing into its R&D.

Correct me if im wrong!

Didn't know Hero had an R&D.

Foreign brand "invested" in Bajaj R&D..?? Be sure of what you say

**bprags** · 02-07-2012, 11:54 PM

Originally posted by Samarth 619 View Post

Now, TVS don't have much of a choice when it comes to the new RTR: Now, even 20 bhp is inadequate for them, forget about matching 56 kmpl even in test conditions.

Their ONLY trump card is "more power & lesser weight". In both these aspects, they can beat Pulsar hands down, if they put in their full efforts. Think about it: A 25 bhp, 140 kgs RTR 220/200 for under 1L... (forget the mileage though.)

Samarth:- It is not a point of TVS investing abroad in R & D, the point is, TVS R & D is very capable, it is just that they are not allowed to showcase it, the management is very laid back, they just dont want to take risks. Look at Rajiv Bajaj, he knows that if he has to compete with the Jap's on his own across the globe, it will take him years to match them, so he wisely tied up with KTM and you have the first product from them. To simply put it Rajiv Bajaj is ambitious and TVS isnt, he has a vision and he is sticking to it.

**ceebeer** · 02-07-2012, 11:54 PM

Originally posted by payeng View Post

Didn't know Hero had an R&D.

Foreign brand "invested" in Bajaj R&D..?? Be sure of what you say

It's the other way around.But,what nithesh said is right,TVS don't outsource technology/engines from other.They make their own bikes,and TVS was the first company to make a fully indigenous bike in India.I don't quite understand why aren't they expanding their line up,they have upto 500cc engines and still no news of any performance bike in the 250cc category.

**payeng** · 02-08-2012, 12:39 AM

Originally posted by ceebeer View Post

But,what nithesh said is right,TVS don't outsource technology/engines from other.They make their own bikes...

Sweeping Statements. Kindly do a background check before making such statements.

Here is proof that TVS did take help from else where too after their break up with Suzuki.

[1] TVS + AVL of Austria

Link: TVS MOTOR COMPANY

The new four stroke 125 cc Flame, fires up a revolutionary three-valve engine, which is propelled by Controlled Combustion Variable Timing Intelligent (CC-VTi) technology. Developed by the R&D team at TVS Motor Company in collaboration with AVL, Austria,

[2] TVS + Engines Engineering of Italy

Link: TVS Motor launches 3 racing bikes - Economic Times

The company has produced six bikes (for motocross racing), three of the TVS 125 X, two TVS 250 X and one of the TVS 400 FX models. The bikes have been developed jointly by the research and development wing of TVS Motor and its offshore consulting institution, Engines Engineering of Italy.

[3] TVS + Ricardo of UK

Link: http://www.mopedriders.org/viewtopic...cb0fd180fbbd60

“It is too expensive to get the vehicles designed abroad. We work with companies like Ricardo and AVL. But we have to be selective about what we take from them. We use the overseas expertise for fine-tuning,” says Srinivasan.

**soulonaroll** · 02-08-2012, 12:13 PM

leaving aside the finer details, what the whole discussion boils down to is that TVS is taking far too long to respond to a market thats maturing very very quickly. The first mover advantage means a lot in this kind of a market and TVS isn't even the second here.
There are umpteen reasons why TVS couldn't keep up but thats a separate thread in itself. What matters is the fact that it didn't and now it really needs to dig in deep to be counted as a worthy contender.

**The Zmaniac** · 02-08-2012, 12:38 PM

Originally posted by bprags View Post

Samarth:- It is not a point of TVS investing abroad in R & D, the point is, TVS R & D is very capable, it is just that they are not allowed to showcase it, the management is very laid back, they just dont want to take risks. Look at Rajiv Bajaj, he knows that if he has to compete with the Jap's on his own across the globe, it will take him years to match them, so he wisely tied up with KTM and you have the first product from them. To simply put it Rajiv Bajaj is ambitious and TVS isnt, he has a vision and he is sticking to it.

Have to agree. Recently TVS showcased new automatic transmission technology. I too think TVS RnD is very much active, just that in a different direction. With Bajaj launching Pulsar 200NS, expectations are very high now and it will be difficult for TVS to match up. Lets wait and see how potent 200NS actually (on road) is and that may be a guiding stone for TVS.

**s_hari** · 02-08-2012, 04:34 PM

I think TVS is just trying to be different from others and busy in creating new categories for itself and excel in it. Or can i say they are investing in new virigin areas where there is no competition. And by the time competition catches up in these areas they would have moved the benchmark still further.

From the simple mopeds(heard of ongoing project to improvise mopeds) to the different Jive, ABS on motorcycles and now with the two wheeler hybrids and new automatic technology. Atleast they are thinking to challenge the Honda in scooters category.

I wish them all the best to excel in these new categories of two wheelers.

**chicane1879** · 02-08-2012, 09:24 PM

Leaving the development for the Flame(with AVL, Austria) and the HECU system for ABS(with Continental AG, Germany) every other vehicle is produced/manufactured solely by TVS alone.

They only resort to technology consulting/certification with certain European agencies and that's it.

Had they been active with developing with those agencies we would have already seen many a iterations of those machines.(TVS Victor was the first motorcycle which was certified by AVL, Austria for efficient engine performance in India, back in 2001).

**bprags** · 02-08-2012, 10:54 PM

Originally posted by chicane1879 View Post

Leaving the development for the Flame(with AVL, Austria) and the HECU system for ABS(with Continental AG, Germany) every other vehicle is produced/manufactured solely by TVS alone.

They only resort to technology consulting/certification with certain European agencies and that's it.

Had they been active with developing with those agencies we would have already seen many a iterations of those machines.(TVS Victor was the first motorcycle which was certified by AVL, Austria for efficient engine performance in India, back in 2001).

I agree, the collaborations were only for specific technologies only, in case of flame it was for the three valve head on the other hand Bajaj's tie up with KTM is a lot more. So there is a huge difference

**s_hari** · 03-03-2012, 12:48 AM

Today when i went to TVS showroom to pickup my dad's scooty which was given for servicing, had a chance to have a chat with the service engineer. I tried to get info about new version of apache and following was the information provided by him

1) new bike will come with a liquid cooled 150 cc engine
2) it will be a sports bike like cbr250 (he means with full fairing)
3) expected to be launced by end of this calendar year
4) name should be either tvs apache velocity or just tvs velocity

just passing the information what was told to me. So its upto readers to judge to what extent it can be relied on

**payeng** · 03-03-2012, 12:56 AM

Originally posted by s_hari View Post

Today when i went to TVS showroom to pickup my dad's scooty which was given for servicing, had a chance to have a chat with the service engineer. I tried to get info about new version of apache and following was the information provided by him

1) new bike will come with a liquid cooled 150 cc engine
2) it will be a sports bike like cbr250 (he means with full fairing)
3) expected to be launced by end of this calendar year
4) name should be either tvs apache velocity or just tvs velocity

just passing the information what was told to me. So its upto readers to judge to what extent it can be relied on

TVS does have a 150 cc Liquid Cooled engine which powers a step thru model called "Tormax 150" in Indonesia..!! TVS is trying its level best to entice Indonesians buyers but still having a diffuclt time there with Yamaha and Honda (even Suzuki and Kawasaki have very less sales there) dominating the Indonesian 2 wheeler scene.

Launching a liquid cooled engine in Indonesia and not India by TVS was/still is very puzzling to me.

If the 150 cc liquid cooled, full faired bike from TVS is indeed true then it will directly be compared with the R15 and the CBR150R.. which would be a tough nut for TVS to crack.

Announcement

TVS to launch revised Apache RTR

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