+1, totally agree. I guess most manufacturers tend to sell whatever they produce in India and it takes a while for them to realize that it's not enough in India. We are a different market and certainly value products that cater to our requirements. Case in point is Fiat.. even with their fantastic products Punto & Linea they are not able make an impression here (of course they do have other things to bother about like brand perception & ASS).

2nd point, I guess is common among all honda show rooms across the world (personally experienced it in US), believe me there is no difference in their attitude when compared to India.

Guess the last point was already taken care of with CBR250, but newer launches are making even that look like premium to competition.

1.bajaj excels in this point.
2.mentioned many time earlier.although my last experience at honda was good.
3.honda and their overpriced products,the saga never really ends be it a car or bike.

The way Honda is going...no doubt they will rule Indian bike market...already the Honda four wheeler share percentage is good in our country....

The reason we get ready to pay a premium to Honda is low quality offered by Indian counterparts. And Honda knows this.

If the Indian companies start offering Japanese quality products, I see no reason people willing to pay a premium to Honda or Japanese for that matter.

How long before we really start to matter in international arena? Just like Hyosung, nobody takes Indian bikes seriously abroad.

Honda will beat Bajaj For sure very soon but Beating Hero will be next to Impossible..

Hopefully the Pulsar/Duke twins will help change this scenario.

As for Honda beating Bajaj to become no. 2, it will be eating into its erstwhile partner's market share and not Bajaj's. And if that were to happen on a 'large scale', HMC no.s itself will drop and will help BAL get closer and even ahead of HMC.

If both HMSI and HMC are competing for the severely competitive(== low margin) commuter segment with full concentration, BAL can safely go on selling 1lac+ Pulsars month after month, and still remain the most profitable company of the 3. That is what matters IMO, both to the management and to the shareholders.

Well not really Satya; check the US markets, Honda charges a little more while offering a little more value. That's the way Honda works.

Sigh!!! Long long way to go!!! Its like saying HMSI will overtake BAL on sales.

+1

Nope; let me tell the Indian mentality...
Sports bike+100 Kmpl+200 Kmph top speed=rock bottom price is what is Indian mentality; even if there's loads of technology, only a select members go for it. Nothing wrong I see in it, but just saying, that's the pulse of the nation & only bikes like Pulsar can serve it because BAL has spent time understanding people. Else where in the forum I told it, BAL makes people's products while HMSI makes products for people.

Unless HMSI gets out of this mentality, which I'm sure they will not as its quite evident from their attitude worldwide, its highly impossible for them to move forward.

12 years ago, BAL was no where in making bikes, HMSI had no experience in Indian soil; now BAL is #2 & HMSI is #3. But for sure, both are fierce competitors.

So, Shine's engine to be under-bored to make it 110cc's is what you want to say? Fine, nothing wrong with it...

But, when their own Twister 110cc is present and gives around 70~ kmpl mileage, why should they touch the Shine's engine anyways? They can tune the 110cc of Twister to give better mileage at the cost of top end power.

--
I agree with many that Honda's dominating future's price will be paid more by Hero, than by Bajaj. But how much approximately, can't be computed as of now.
That's because Hero MotoCorp has not lost its sales yet, despite losing the "Honda" name. So, its exactly not clear as to what makes Hero bikes sell more than others...? Any ideas anyone...?


Bajaj even on being 3rd, will have sound profitability due to its stronger upper end. Also, they will somehow find some way or the other, to improve upon its products, including those for commuters.

A Fuel injected Discover 100 D3Si for Rs. 50k, giving some 130 kmpl in 2014?? Maybe...

Developing a good product is one thing and marketing and selling the product is an entirely different game. For example, Suzuki, with all its international experience could make a world class bike and price it well. But its not enough. They need better marketing/sales/service practices to do business, which they lack right now.
Case in point is Fiat, which designed the multijet engines. Now, Maruti is reaping huge success with the same engine.

Now coming to Hero Moto Corp, It has always been a very good marketing company. B-schools can consider it as a case study. They sell splendor+, splendor pro, super splendor, splendor nxg etc etc... They believe in selling. They do business. The follow the idea of 'Sell a single bike to a village and the rest of the village comes to buy the same bike'. It really works for them.

Only Honda can beat Hero in 100cc volumes space. They have good technology. They have good products as well. They are not sleeping and are setting up factories and ramping up production. Hope they do well with their sales network, after-sales network and parts distribution. They already have good brand image in the urban market. Honda Shine is doing well in rural markets as well. Hope they do the 'Dream Yuga' thing successfully.

All this will give them enough confidence to launch more of their higher capacity motorcycles. There are people around with lots of money!!!!

Was this reply to the quoted text or the entire thing. Anyways, for the bold bit, there is nothing wrong in demanding that. How the manufacturer does it is the manufacturer's problem. If some people are doing it better than others, obviously, there will be more respect AND sales for the one who is being more innovative.

Case in point: The Maruti 800, Alto 800 and the Fiat Panda Twin-Air. 3 cars from different eras with similar capacity 4-stroke petrol engines.

Maruti 800cc carb: 38 bhp, 15kmpl in real world usage
Alto 800cc Fi: 46bhp, 17kmpl in real world
Fiat Panda Twin-Air 875cc GDI: 85bhp, 22+ kmpl in real world

I couldn't give a 2-wheeler based example because not many 'eras' have passed since 4s bikes became mainstream. But I guess this is sufficient.

Of course, a more powerful engine warrants a better chassis, better brakes and better tuned suspension adding to costs. But more power and more FE from the same capacity engine is what everyone has been doing for a long long time.

As for experience, then Bajaj would have much more experience than anybody else in the Indian market, but all the experience in the world couldn't stop the revolution called as Hero Honda back in the 80s.

I'm not here to prove a point or argue...you probably failed to notice one more part, which I'll highlight for you...

I said no for the very reason that Honda will never change which is even evident from the pricing of their cars.

Well , that might be because they are still selling bikes with Hero Honda stickers... Even though they showcased all their bikes with Hero stickers at the Auto Expo, I'm yet to see one on the road....

Absolutely right Ivin. People in the rural areas who are ofcourse not bikers don't even knw that "their hero honda" have become hero. & after Honda launch their own new 100cc engine which ofviously would be much more refined and also slightly powerful and with a better design even the rural areas would leave Hero. It would be Honda vs Bajaj for the no.1 spot which was the actual fight. Hero don't even have a single innovation, even on a bicycle.

In every such discussion here, I don't see why people brush away the 100cc bikes. That's where the volumes are. The CBR250R, inspite of a competitive price tag, will not find huge takers.
Three kinds of people.
1) The Practical : They need the best bang for their buck. So, be it a 50cc or a 1000cc, they will only buy what they think is best for them. If they think Bajaj is good for them, they will buy it. And if they think Honda is good, they will do that. Don't you see people buying the Stallio and other bikes?
2) The show-offs : They care a damn about any manufacturer. All they need is something to flaunt. Majority of the high end bikes are bought by these fellas. And they form the majority of people who keep cribbing about Indian products.
3) The Enthusiasts : A chunk of the people who are also on this forum. They will not buy a Honda or a Yamaha just because they think it is of good quality and ignore a Bajaj for its apparent inferior quality. That's the reason we've got several kinds of bikes being discussed here.

Coming back to the topic, I am surprised how Honda managed so many sales inspite of such huge waiting periods. Time for Bajaj to up the ante yet again. I would rather see genuine Indian manufacturers fight it out (Read Bajaj, TVS) , rather than a discussion on Indian vs. Japanese bikes.

^^ Well, I guess another news item saying Hero, Honda's sales inventories (dealer dispatches) are at all time high can explain that. The numbers reported to news papers are generally dealer dispatches and not the actual retail sales.