Those are very true words brother. The RTR180 is such a machine that gives P220 and Karizma Even the R15 a run for their money. The reason why RTR series don't sell as much as say the pulsars is that the pulsars are relatively cheaper (P180 and A180 comparo) and give better fuel efficiency. Also bajaj's spare parts are relatively cheaper. Hence the Indian masses turn to the pulsar series to satisfy their racing urges. It's simply pitiful the Indian motorcycle market that ignores a better performance product for a product that's easy on the pocket.

The TVS RTR220 is gonna be a scorcher that will burn the Pulsar's empire down to the ground!! The '10 Auto Expo is gonna be real fun.

I have to agree..

TVS have will its hands full in 2010 with the newly launched "Flame SR/DS 125", "110 cc Jive" and "Wego" scooter (these bikes have been launched but not yet available in showrooms) and see that those launches are commercially successful.

Adding another bike (that too a low volume potential), would take too much effort. TVS would be better off concentrating in trying to sell models which will bring in the numbers (and profits).

This new 220 cc TVS is in all probablity a "hype" created by the press.

By the way, this time too I expect some cool TVS "concepts' at the Auto Expo (like the earlier Auto Expo's).
But a new 220 from TVS in 2010.. not quite likely.

I beg to differ. Stating Bajaj, a low cost bike maker compared to TVS is not appropriate. There's something known as Value For Money. If Indian Motorcyclist, prefer cheaper options keeping aside quality, then TVS bikes are the cheaper option. If one has money to spare then he would rater opt for R15, period.

With my personal experience, and my friends RTR 160, I don't find anything of really much better than a Pulsar. RTR owners have similar niggles and quality issue with their bikes.

In terms of price/quality statement, better to compare a FZ16 or R15 to Bajaj/TVS bike, rather than equating between two Indian brands, which both provide real valur for money.

A RTR 220 is highly unlikely in 2010. Let them display at Auto Expo, if they can, and if all possibilities a RTR 220 would be launched, quarter 2011 is more optimistic date to eye on, especially when we are looking at the new breed of Pulsars coming in.

All in all I expect the RTR 220 Vs Pulsar 220 of 2011 to be 4V. So even if it's 24 Bhp, expect Bajaj comeout with some real boosted figures of 220.

i dont think so u can compare rtr's to pulsars.....rtr's silencers don't rust in the joints making it a free flow ...not matter how much u take of it.and about the service at least they keep all the parts...not like bajaj who launch the bike within 2 month the discontinue it and then u have to put the newer models parts to it.u can never restore a bajaj bike they way company had launched it.u have to compromise with what the company is giving u.

Wrong thread.

This isn't the TVS vs Bajaj thread.

yeah i remember that LONG LONG thread of Apache 180!!! full of speculations - half fairing / projector lamps / ABS blah blah blah....

long long wait and a simple sweet 180 was launched..

so i think its better to wait till auto expo before blowing up this thread exponentially
especially comparing existent(P220) to something non existent(a220). no one has seen the bike and no one has any power figures to justify all the discusions.

i am not telling dont speculate at all.. just telling to stop unwanted comparisons of tvs and bajaj

cheers!!!

merry X-mas

saj*

Alright, Now I don't understand. Are you suggesting to compare the R15 to the pulsar 180?? And brother your "personal experience" may just be your personal experience and that does not mean that the RTR180 does not outshine the Pulsar 180 and that too by a really comfortable margin. I mean we compare the RTR180 to the Pulsar220 dtsi for god's sake; and there the pulsar has a clear cut 40cc advantage. I don't wish to say that the pulsar series bikes or bajaj bikes for that matter are not good. I just meant to say that for an Indian customer who wants to buy a performance bike , mileage and spare parts cost are such big factors that they want to buy a relatively less performing bike (read P180) when there are better options available to him in RTR180.

Yeah continuous upgrades to it's bikes is something that Bajaj can be given a pat on the back for. So then I guess we'll see how Bajaj plans to tackle the RTR220 with it's P220. Maybe they'll just add another 30 cc to the engine and then we'll be discussing how the RTR220 being 30cc shorter on the engine side can still kick the P250's hiney all over the place!! But that's fuel for another speculation thread now isn't it??

+1 to your brother. Free flow. Anyways, this was fun but this isn't the TVS V/s Bajaj thread so let's not make it one.

Btw: Why isn't there a TVS v/s Bajaj thread?? Would be fun.


Gotcha Brother.

Performance is all right. But, the bike has to be reliable and trouble free too. Right now Apaches suffer from vibes, notchy gearboxes, oil leaks etc. These are the reasons why P180 is considered to be better by the majority of the buyers.

Please dont talk about cc advantages. We as customers simply do not and should not care about this. Do you see cars being divided into categories by their engine capacities?! We need a certain amount of performance at a certain price. What engine specs/chassis specs etc the manufacturer uses should not matter to us.

Going by that explanation I'd have to assume that the P180 is absolutely free from any vibes. I have a colleague at office and he saw me reading through this thread and he said "the Pulsars are a better bike coz Bajaj has been manufacturing scooters and bikes for a long time now and what was TVS doing?? manufacturing mopeds??. Also How many Apache's do you see on the road as compared to the pulsars?? So many people ride Pulsars. Are they crazy?? Is the whole world crazy apart from the bunch of RTR guys??" Now that's what goes in the mind of "majority of the buyers". It's a pity that the average consumer would just completely neglect a better product just coz it's manufacturer has been manufacturing mopeds for a while now and that they don't see too much of it on the roads (Then also there are so many pulsar customers who crib about that there is no exclusivity!!)



Brother how can someone not consider cc advantages?? Tellme if a one legged man outruns a two legged one what does that tell ya??.

As if the apache is exclusive. All the apache editions look exactly the same. Atleast pulsars have some amount of differences. Just stop the comparo people.Apache is not a flawless bike. Neither is a Pulsar. But if you get a test ride of the A180 and the P180UG4 you'll get why we say apache has vibes.The p180UG4 is far more refined. The A180 may outrun all the premium segment bikes in the 0 to 60 run. But one can't ignore issues like failing parts and vibrating bikes. Check out the exhaust on the pulsars since the UG3. They don't rust and get damaged. I have a friend who has abused his P180UG3 for 3 years and its still running strong.

No one is asking you to ignore the CC advantages. But for a certain amount of money you should get a certain performance. Like If you are willing to shell out an amount around 1 lakh, you need to get a performance like the R15 and not like the ZMA. But look at the 220DTS-i it retails at 83k in my city. So you get the performance of a lakh rupee bike for 17k less. So now should you crib about the CCs?

All I will say that Apache has scope for improvement in areas like vibes etc while Pulsars can improve performance. And I hope A220 achieves this!

Well, you can have your views. I will consider engine power in terms of bhp/torque while comparing bikes, not their engine cc. If a 180 cc engine gives performance close to a 220cc engine, then its good. The company squeezed more out of their engine. That's it, but it does not affect me. What will affect me is the final o/p the engine delivers. Anyways its going OT. I will stop here.

It's a stereotyping at the best, when you say Pulsar's silencers rust. RTR does have a lot of problems of it's own, and as far as the FI is considered, problems remain unsolved.

Discontinuing or upgrading or whatever is marketing strategy. Apache started off with 150 all the way to Apache 180 RTR. Don't try talking about it.

Both Bajaj and TVS didn't had a pleasant experience with FI and hence shifted to Carbs, and on that front RTR Fi is the worst Fi bike to hit the roads.



What I meant was, when we talk about quality for the price, there's R15 and other Yammies. When we talk about value for money, both TVS and Bajaj are value players.

And going by the CC logic, R15 is 150CC, 30 CC shorter than your Apache 180 is much much better, but is it value for money? May be not.

And why only compare A180 too 220, R15 at 150CC can be better compared

When we buy Pulsar 220, over A180, Pulsar is more refined is a better highway tool, there's no comparison there.

Point Taken. Can't take unwanted bashing of any brands.


P180 at the moment is much more refined than a A180, not withstanding A180's performance superiority over P180 though.

CC do not matter, price does. Consumers pay for a bike, which can be faster/more refined than a completion. If just talk about CCs than Pulsar 220 and Ninja 250 have just 30CCs difference, does that matter? An R15 is again 30CC less than Apache 180 does that matter?

Guys I've only pointed out the fact that TVS is able to churn out more performance from their 180cc mill than Bajaj does with its P180. Maybe you guys don't see that but for me that's a commendable thing to do. Also about that whole "R15 being 30cc less than RTR180" thing, brothers that too is a great achievement by Yamaha. Though this comes with its share of disadvantages as well, apparently the vibes in the RTR180 and the less torque at low rpm's in R15 being the sore points in both the bikes respectively.

I don't say that the P180 is not a good bike, I'm saying that the RTR180 is a much much better one, well at least to me it is.

So you mean that the P220 gives the same performance as the R15?? Well the guys who use the R15 on tracks would differ surely. The P220 is nowhere on the handling front when compared to the R15. Also then there is Bajaj's questionable quality. I didn't quite get the ZMA part either.....do you intend to say that anyone looking for a bike with a 1 lakh budget should simply go for an R15 and shouldn't even consider the ZMA which by the way has been serving the nation's touring leagues for almost half a decade now??

Well said brother. I too hope the same. Now lets play the wait n watch game.


You have a way of making posts that are going O.T. halt . Well I respect your point of view too. Comparing bhp/torque of bikes can make sense, but I believe that dusting a P220 on a RTR180 would be much more fun and SATISFYING to do than to lets say dust a P180 with a RTR180.

Brother we're talking about the RTR180 here, has the FI been launched yet?? Anyways ..... I take your point none the less.

The reply for the R15 discussion is right above......please do take the time to read through. Yeah I give you that the P220 is a better highway tool then the RTR180 coz of the upright stance and better top-end.



Guys I too feel that this is going way O.T. Hence this will be my last post regarding the fact that RTR180 is a better performer than her similar cc counterparts and can even give the big guys a run for their money (read P220). Although some may disagree to this but for me lower cc and better performance is better than higher cc and similar performance. Period. I won't reply to any post regarding the RTR180 again in this thread. If anyone wants to discuss it further then message me.

Anyways the RTR220 is gonna be a helluva bike as it'll surely outshine the P220 and the likes; maybe even the R15. Lets hope TVS can surprise us at the expo.

^^^
good thinking...if this discussion goes on,the thread will surely be closed. I don't want this to become another bajaj vs tvs thread...both the companies are doing their bit for the choice strapped Indian consumer looking for a decent performance bike at competitive price point.They should be applauded for that effort.Maybe they've not yet upped the ante,but I'm sure they will...