My take-
Two strokes are cheap.They are easy to mod.Most of the parts of two stroke engines are available since they have been around for long time.To have a stock two stroke engine is like having a F1 car and driving around in pit-lane speed limiter style. [] You mod it and you hop on for a trip which you are not gonna forget.
Now people will say i can mod my four stroke and do these things to.Sure mate go ahead and do it,and let us know cause you would be the first guy i guess to make a truely modded kick-ass four stroke.
The sad part- Indian Emission norms are screwed,each and every bike is coming out lower down in spec,just to beat the emission norms.No i am not talking about the PUC certificate i am talking about emission norms supposed to be maintained at the manf. level. Those things are killing two strokes and also not helping four strokes either.
Also goverment seems hell-bent on banning two strokes dunno y.
Two strokes do have lesser engine life.But then screw the engine life if you want performance.Law of nature.
Right now pulsar,cbz do fetch poser points,two strokes dont.
and yes 150/180cc bikes(all companies) are reliable four strokes with nice engine life/mileage.the things which you use daily kind.(not that the two strokers cant be used daily)
For myself I would rebuild a nice two stroke bike and use it for blasts at odd times of the day when roads are empty

friends sunny is right----

we will not spend a penny to save the earth. becuase who cares? we still can breathe. it doesent matter if we have to travel an average of 1000 kms to get that 50% fresh air in the mountains, the same which was possible in your courtyard a 1000 years back.

i am sad.
yes, i know u r sad too.
what should we do?
dont have a clue.

hey see the market for 2 strokes ,how much buying option left even if u intend to buy new bike -only 2- max 100(who will buy this rural guddy[xx(]) and yamaha RXZ(ready to get a big hole in your pockets? [B)]only for pic-up?)

yes
we should be responsible enough if we r able to save enviornment by even few cc's of harmful gasses.yes if we will not care for it then who else?
so if every1 here switch to 4 stroke bikes then definately we will be having a better feeling in our minds that atleast we also want fresh air and we r also contributing our best to it.[^][8D]

so enjoy the sound of 4strokes dhurrrr dhurrrrr

LOL what a gas...first lung cancer then save trees...wat next?
Guys its a mis-conception tht 2 stroke pollutes a lot,if it did even max100 wud be banned.

Hey guys,
cool it. Theres one more misconception here. Its not that if a person buys a 2-S bike, he has no concerns for the environment. Everyone has different tastes. Given a choice between 2-S and 4-S, i'm sure many people wud go in for 2-S bikes. I made a big mistake of sellin my RXZ. But I had to cos it was givin me lotsa problems and it was time to buy a new bike. I was thinkin of gettin a 2nd hand 2-S bike but decided against it. I cud have got the new RXZ. But these bikes are gonna be phased out in a matter of years to give way for clean air. So spares will not be easily available and expensive. That is why I decided to buy a 4-S.

Anyways, agreed that 2-S bikes pollute the environment. But not as much to cause someone lung cancer. The main culprits and old and badly mainatained auto-rickshaws, cabs, trucks. Why dont be ban them??

Anyways, one way isnt it good that the cities are a bit polluted.....lol......That gives vacationers a good reason to go for a loooooooong drive or ride into the mountains for a fresh air.....lol...

Good discussion, though its getting diverted.... []

KlassiCs

Killer,
I think u got to learn what is 4st and 2st technology... Then u will understand which engine burns fuel more efficiently. Its well known fact that half burnt fuel goes out thru exhaust port in 2st engines. Smoking out WHITE CO Gas which is most hazardous than diesel CO2 Gas emitted by public transports etc.
THis fight wud have been justified if everyone wud have thrown away there yamaha's when HH Sleek was launched. But No thats not the case.
I have shifted from my RX to Pulsar coz i was not loosing out on anything. Infact i was gaining a lot. Who else is most efficient fuel burning machine than DTS-I engines? Anyone has any doubts?

Well move on guys clear the smoke.

I think its time someone taught you something Sameer_DBA (does DBA stand for ditched my brains all-the-way?)Anyone knows that a 2stroke engine does more work (read only 2 strokes) per rpm than a 4 stroke (read 4 strokes). The main thing about 2st engines polluting is that oil is added to the fuel rather than the engine. Two-stroke engines have the potential for about twice the power in the same size because there are twice as many power strokes per revolution. Get it???? Also, Two-stroke engines fire once every revolution (four-stroke engines fire once every other revolution). This gives two-stroke engines a significant power boost. GET IT NOW???
Man, Sameer, if you can't get it now, then best stop posting anything u can't back up, kinda makes u look like a fool!

I had said b4 too Grow up. Thats all i'll say in this thread!

Hey ehud, I agree with you that a 2t engine can make twice the power as much as a fourstroke of same displacement. But put it this way dude, if 2t was so much better than the 4t why did the worldwide bike manufacturers stop concentrating on them and start with big bore 4t engines? You see, the 2t era was great, but the future will not allow anyone riding these machines, let alone manufacturing them.
Today what you say holds, but dont try to impose your view on anyone. Ride whatever u like to.

All said, the only thing 2 sts have against them is pollution, otherwise they rule over 4 sts.
However, 4 sts are cleaner than 2 sts granted.
But you ain't lived till you've ridden a 2 st ***** that rearing to give you more! Game, set, match!

Being a new member here, Ehud I suggest you learn to be a little polite to members who have been here before you. Please argue to the point and AVOID getting PERSONAL in any matter. Keep the attacks away from a particular user.


That's not the only problem Ehud,

because of the absense oc controlled valves, and the very way the fresh air fuel mixture enters the cylinder, there is a lot of unburnt gases (and even fresh charge) that goes out of that exhaust port.

The usage of 2T oils not only fouls spark plugs, but also leaves heavy hard to remove deposits on the piston, cylinder, covers the ports and chokes the silencer.

Engine braking is also not advisable on 2 strokes as along with the fuel supply even lubricant is cut off from the engine's moving parts.

The only way out is use Fuel Injection and external air compression as is used on Marine 2 stroke diesel engines (and Aprilias Ditech engines). Here lubrication is done under the cylinder as in 4 strokes.

Yes 2 strokes had their time. They were simple and easy to produce and supported the economy. Now with better technologies 4 strokes are more sustainable. And if you still want a 2 stroke, the Aprilia Ditech is the way out!

And regarding engine norms we SHOULD NOT criticise the Government for making really strict emission norms. If Companies like Bajaj can develop DTS-i engines to meet the norms effectively and companies like Yamaha have to think twice before bringing a large engine cruiser to the country because it can't meet the local emission norms... that is the way to go.

INdia's emission norms are now stricter than California state, second only to Taiwan. So that's the way to go! We should be proud of it. The govt is taking some initiatives, so let them do it!

i'll second that ehud ...Sameer thank u for enlightening me..however u seem to have missed the point..i'm not even talking about 4st or 2st when i say that "the more fuel 'BURNT!!!!' the more power produced" ..its a generic statement and its perfectly true..applies to both 2 and 4st so lets not go on a DTSi power trip..else even i can bring the RD into the story LOL [] ...2 strokes do waste some amount of unburnt fuel and thats where the expansion chambers come into play...they pump back the wasted gases into the cylinders and thereby burn "MORE FUEL" making "MORE POWER" and resulting in "LESS MILEAGE"...the expansions also result in a much stronger suction force so u will have to upjet to flow 'MORE FUEL' in order to make 'MORE POWER' and again 'LESS MILEAGE' ..the power making mod which is equivalent to this on a 4stroke is adding a 'Turbo' which is something i am yet to see on an indian 4stroke..u need the big cylinder machines for that..whatever other mods u can do to a 4stroke result in a very teeny increase in power and thats why the 4strokes have 'MORE MILEAGE' becoz they burn 'LESS FUEL' (albeit efficiently as u say) and are incapable of burning any 'MORE FUEL'...hope what i've said is understood better now..damn i hate explaining

bottom line: with the kinda cc's we've got down here...2strokes are the better option for power...if u dont agree..go watch the 125 and 250cc classes of motorcycle grandprix...dont get me wrong..i'd love to own the bigger 4strokes that make tons of power...but theres something to be said about a 2stroke ...reminds me of a comment made by a friend and rd350 rider who went out and rode a hayabusa for a few days...when asked what it was like he replied "man hayabusa is hayabusa...u just cant beat that kinda power"..then after a few seconds of silence he says "but man the feel of a 2 stroke power band is something else"

BTW: When did this debate become about the environment ? ...why do ppl here always have to find a way to escape the issue rather than accepting the facts as they are ? ...it would be more mature and would result in a shorter..more 'to the point' discussion

hello everyone...
I m getting more & more disillusioned every time I read this thread...it feels as if humanity is really dead in this materialist

narrow minded 'me-first' world...egos take precedence over brotherhood of mankind...individuality gets subverted...and the

evidence of why mother nature never heals just starts to show...
Noone said that 2sts are not faster, but these guys wont accept that they pollute substantially & that the govt is not a fool

to impose restrictions on this 2st technology...globally, people fight govts to get these norms imposed & here we have ppl
supporting a archaic technology without a concern in the world......is it stupid to dream of hope anymore?...and environment came in coz the bigger was being missed by the inconsiderate "look mom, I can ride faster" lots.....we all accept that 2sts r fast & they r fast only cos of the
2 stage burning process (which is infact a imcomplete burning process) which is the main cause for the pollution from these
bikes... I wish that all the money that is being suggested to increase top speeds & pick up (which would again lead to sucking
up more & more precious natural resources from mother earth) is put into technology that would reduce emission norms form
these 2sts...On one side the progressive ppl are thinking of hydrogen fuel cells, & we have ppl suporting steam engine
tech...ah, & we wonder why new tech is so so hard to accept...
...the only thing I want from these ppl is a real effort in trying to control the emissions first & then try & increase the
speeds and other monkeying around...once they get to the emmission levels of 4sts, then lets see how much ur mods make ur
bikes go faster...that would be a bigger challenge & I m sure none of them would be faintly interested in this
endeavour...why?..oh u see, how much pollution can their bikes do?..there r so many other buses, trucks, etc etc which
pollute as well...so if they can pollute, they believe that they also have a right to pollute...!!!...interesting psychology it
makes...ppl may be racers or whatever, I think respect for everything and not just velocity is what humanity is all about..it is
what biking is about...I dont think we r so much consumed by the increasingly capitalist & materialistic culture that greed
for more & more can blind us to greater issues at hand...come on guys, we are humans & we cant let machines cloud our
thinkings...one always starts at home and when one can do his/her bit, why not?...why do we shy away from doing something
for everyone at large & not only that concerns us?...is it asking too much?..is it that tough?...

Ozzy's words keep ringing in my ears...

"Gazing through the window at the world outside
Wondering will mother earth survive
Hoping that mankind will stop abusing her
sometime

After all there's only just the two of us
And here we are still fighting for our lives
Watching all of history repeat itself
Time after time

I watch the sun go down like everyone of us
I'm hoping that the dawn will bring a sign
A better place for those Who will come after us ...
This time

I'm just a dreamer
I dream my life away
I'm just a dreamer
Who dreams of better days"



Keep the faith...

if i was impolite my apologies, esp. to Sameer.
One final time, I am not against pollution norms, but each time the 2st vs 4st debate crops up, you 4st guys try to screw us on pollution, and that's LAME!
I think killer's pal said it - "a 2st power band is just...different!"
Also Glifford, get real! How many guys bribe the PUC inspectors and pollute, answer me that! So let's no get all fired up about stronger pollution norms when we all know what reality is. If you really care, you'll keep your bike well tuned, 2st or 4st!
So guys please find another way to face us 2st maniacs other than pollution!

LOL this is one touchy topic.although speed junkies in india are right in staying the 2st way,coz the 4st bikes really sucked till now,it's now tht the scene is better.
HRC and proton r plain crap.even KRP is no better.eats the engine.custom pipes r better by miles.a friend in chandigarh has got imported pipes for his RD,built by a tuner in canada where he lived.i've ridden the bike and i know of the rush it gave.
well preferences r personal,but 2st r not polluting monsters.it's just tht they pollute more than 4st.but what a rush man.