Engine Oils

[sinnerz2000]

For me even honda 20w40 felt pathetic. NVH levels were too much. also the gears were hard. (not rock hard) I would not risk with 10w30. unless if its winter. Also, your hunk (and my stunner employs an engine which is rated for xxW40 oil, when it was built.) So, even the universal 20w40 wouldnt harm. looking at both the cases, 10w40 is the best grade todays hero & honda bikes can have. (mathematical view point )
but no mineral oil is present in 10w40 grade. its too wide for them. So, AX7 is SS and AX5 is mineral. and Ultra is FS. but this whole "synthetic" term has become blurry in todays era where we can super-refine those great quality crude oil (yes!! crude oil also has its standards) so we get "highly refined mineral oils" it has negligible % of impurities (oils made from this are called group2+ or may be 3). AX7 is this, highly refined mineral oil. And shell advanced Ultra is highly refined mineral oil + some tiny % of true FS stock of oil, which can be PAOs, esters and other things I dont know. These PAOs, esters are called group 4 base oils. I dont think Even the most expensive oil Motul 300v has more than 30% of eaters..
Go with Veedol super swift or Shell advanced Ax7, give it a few days ride and you'll come close to nirvana..
P.S. If you find veedol super swift, then do share the shop's location.

@sinnerz,
stick to 20w40, unless its 30' C or lower outside. Regarding your engine heat check if the oil is due past its change time. one should change mineral oils max by 2500km/6months, whichever is earlier. little earlier is always better. if this isnt the case then may be your carb is lean tuned (mechs do this commonly) these 2 are the most common.

other things can be:

- lack of oil circulation

- inadequatly torque'd spark plug

-engine deposits.

but do check the heat also, after some 15 kms of city ride, crank case cover should not be hotter than a fresh tea cup..

I've actually noticed this heat since I shifted from motul to gulf, when I first put gulf I was getting a burnung oil smell for few days then it stopped

[B7ACKTHORN]

but no mineral oil is present in 10w40 grade. its too wide for them. So, AX7 is SS and AX5 is mineral. and Ultra is FS. but this whole "synthetic" term has become blurry in todays era where we can super-refine those great quality crude oil (yes!! crude oil also has its standards) so we get "highly refined mineral oils" it has negligible % of impurities (oils made from this are called group2+ or may be 3). AX7 is this, highly refined mineral oil. And shell advanced Ultra is highly refined mineral oil + some tiny % of true FS stock of oil, which can be PAOs, esters and other things I dont know. These PAOs, esters are called group 4 base oils. I dont think Even the most expensive oil Motul 300v has more than 30% of eaters..
Go with Veedol super swift or Shell advanced Ax7, give it a few days ride and you'll come close to nirvana..
P.S. If you find veedol super swift, then do share the shop's location. .

Yes, you are very true about MOTUL 300V even being FS, the Ester levels are less <= 30% and there was even a big debate about what manufactures claim that's in the bottle as opposed to what's marked on the outside. But I guess, just a page back, psr, muztariq and myself were reeling on additives and ester formulation. But basically for formulation from the past has just decreased with modern additives being used with crazy jargons that makes them stand apart. But chemically, it does very little to change any given base oil detergents/dispersants/esters etc.

but do check the heat also, after some 15 kms of city ride, crank case cover should not be hotter than a fresh tea cup..

I beg to differ on this point mate. Engine heat, for example, is not a set standard, if you know what I mean. Even in a two stroke's crank case, covering 10 is enough to melt plastic, which I myself have checked a lot of times. Remember, a 220's engine heats up so crazily that you can literally feel the heat, irrespective of the oil you use, the more it stressed especially in summer conditions, and it's the case with so many bikes out there.

Temp is irrespective of the climate. Have you ever felt smoother engine, and gear shifts when the temperature suddenly becomes cold and all of a sudden harsh when the engine goes hot, that's the same reason. And some even report the same for gear shifts; early morning for a few KMS the gear shift would be butter smooth, as temperature kicks in the shifts progressively gets a little harder.

Cheers!
VJ

[Eshan-P180]

@All

May I know the drain interval period for Motul 300V 15W50 FS?

Also, is there a top required? if yes then at how much km on the odo in regards to the above mentioned drain period.

[B7ACKTHORN]

@All

May I know the drain interval period for Motul 300V 15W50 FS?

Also, is there a top required? if yes then at how much km on the odo in regards to the above mentioned drain period.

6K KMS without a problem whatsoever. Currently using Motul 300V for my bike. The same was used in one of my friend's CB1000RR and 220s, even I own a 220. In 220 it lasted well over 5.3K KMS with still oil being brownish in color. But then he changed it to Mobil.

Top is required only if it leaks or your bike is drinking too much oil, but in any case having a little extra comes in handy most of times.

Will post a review here of the 300V here shortly.

Cheers!
VJ

[Eshan-P180]

6K KMS without a problem whatsoever. Currently using Motul 300V for my bike. The same was used in one of my friend's CB1000RR and 220s, even I own a 220. In 220 it lasted well over 5.3K KMS with still oil being brownish in color. But then he changed it to Mobil.

Top is required only if it leaks or your bike is drinking too much oil, but in any case having a little extra comes in handy most of times.

Will post a review here of the 300V here shortly.

Cheers!
VJ

Sounds perfect to me. I would wait for your review. Planning to use it in my r15 this time.

So according to the mentioned drain period (r15 servicing 3,000kms) One bottle of 300V will last for 2 servicing schedules of r15 without top-up or anything. As you know r15 has a revvy engine than a Pulsar, do you think it would suffice or work perfect till 6,000kms? or I might have to top-up around 5,000kms?

Currently on the odo - 13,500kms
Current oil - YamaLube 15w50 SS - Rs 505.
Engine oil capacity - 1 liter only

Please advice how should I go by with this oil.


Thanx

[B7ACKTHORN]

Sounds perfect to me. I would wait for your review. Planning to use it in my r15 this time.

So according to the mentioned drain period (r15 servicing 3,000kms) One bottle of 300V will last for 2 servicing schedules of r15 without top-up or anything. As you know r15 has a revvy engine than a Pulsar, do you think it would suffice or work perfect till 6,000kms? or I might have to top-up around 5,000kms?

Currently on the odo - 13,500kms
Current oil - YamaLube 15w50 FS - Rs 505.
Engine oil capacity - 1 liter only

Please advice how should I go by with this oil.

Thanx

Why not? It can be used without a glitch, the will be quite smoother and can see the difference using 300V. But I just love the Yamalube 15w50, my VICTOR engine would still thank for the oil change I did years back, though my usage was less, Yamalube was just liquid gold. The shifts, the engine sound, darn, everything
changed on the bike, gear shifts were "molten" butter smooth.

Someone here even used the Petronas Sprinta, and vouched it was the best oil they've ever used on an R15.

If you really love the Yamalube, stick with it. As you basically know Motul 5100 and Yamalube 15w50 are pretty much the same, with the exception of 300V

Cheers!
VJ

[sinnerz2000]

Ok now since 10w30 is not recommended for summer(and I ride long distance at high speeds), if I use shell ax7 should I go for the 10w40 or 15w50 one? I'm currently on gulf 20w40

[psr]

I beg to differ on this point mate. Engine heat, for example, is not a set standard, if you know what I mean. Even in a two stroke's crank case, covering 10 is enough to melt plastic, which I myself have checked a lot of times. Remember, a 220's engine heats up so crazily that you can literally feel the heat, irrespective of the oil you use, the more it stressed especially in summer conditions, and it's the case with so many bikes out there.

Temp is irrespective of the climate. Have you ever felt smoother engine, and gear shifts when the temperature suddenly becomes cold and all of a sudden harsh when the engine goes hot, that's the same reason. And some even report the same for gear shifts; early morning for a few KMS the gear shift would be butter smooth, as temperature kicks in the shifts progressively gets a little harder.

Cheers!
VJ

If the out side temperature(Ambient) is cold it has two effects on the engine...one it makes the air dense so that when the engine breathes it, it has more Oxygen and hence engine produces better power...secondly, for Air Cooled engines, the engine cooling on the move becomes better and so the expansion of parts is limited and engine works better,and gets cool faster on the move.

[B7ACKTHORN]

If the out side temperature(Ambient) is cold it has two effects on the engine...one it makes the air dense so that when the engine breathes it, it has more Oxygen and hence engine produces better power...secondly, for Air Cooled engines, the engine cooling on the move becomes better and so the expansion of parts is limited and engine works better,and gets cool faster on the move.

Exactly psr ji. Thanks for the heads up. Perhaps I must have written into it a little detailedly.

[Honda_CBF]

@ B7ackthrone, with 'tea cup hot' I specifically meant with unicorn (btw, have found most hero & honda bike pretty same) using mineral oil of 20w40 grade that too under normal temps (less than 45 and more than 15'C) and 220, classic 180 and RE are exception though they turns superhot also, as psr ji told checking temp (by touching RHS crankcase) while on move will feel cooler than checking after a stop. @ sinnerz, if you are getting this more heat after switching then may be its just oil specific. No need to worry till you know, you are using a genuine oil. Some oils do make you feel that engine is running hotter, which may not mean anything with Regard to the oil's performance. I didn't find that with gulf or may be it was too less for me to notice. But with yamalube 15w50 my bike did felt hotter, and opposed to that, oil performed like magic. It was THE best oil I ever used. So i guess, may be the oil is somehow helping engine shed more heat.. I don't know. What I do know is gulf pride 4T is good oil, it just takes too long to warm up. Btw, you can revert back anytime

[sinnerz2000]

@ B7ackthrone, with 'tea cup hot' I specifically meant with unicorn (btw, have found most hero & honda bike pretty same) using mineral oil of 20w40 grade that too under normal temps (less than 45 and more than 15'C) and 220, classic 180 and RE are exception though they turns superhot also, as psr ji told checking temp (by touching RHS crankcase) while on move will feel cooler than checking after a stop. @ sinnerz, if you are getting this more heat after switching then may be its just oil specific. No need to worry till you know, you are using a genuine oil. Some oils do make you feel that engine is running hotter, which may not mean anything with Regard to the oil's performance. I didn't find that with gulf or may be it was too less for me to notice. But with yamalube 15w50 my bike did felt hotter, and opposed to that, oil performed like magic. It was THE best oil I ever used. So i guess, may be the oil is somehow helping engine shed more heat.. I don't know. What I do know is gulf pride 4T is good oil, it just takes too long to warm up. Btw, you can revert back anytime

Hmm yea planning to change oil, thinking if I should go back to motul 3000 or try the shell ax7. Is the heat due to petrol combustion or due to friction? Coz I don't think engine oil can make fuel burn hotter and if its due to friction then its a bad thing, more heat=more friction=faster engine wear right?

[B7ACKTHORN]

Hmm yea planning to change oil, thinking if I should go back to motul 3000 or try the shell ax7. Is the heat due to petrol combustion or due to friction? Coz I don't think engine oil can make fuel burn hotter and if its due to friction then its a bad thing, more heat=more friction=faster engine wear right?

Your question really delves into the very forms of thermodynamics and it's the basic principle that we read in our high school and Newton's second law, every action has as equal and opposite reaction. Heat is mainly caused by friction of any given surfaces. Stone to stone, hand to hand (just so you get the point)

As psr said a while back to my answer to another question I answered (thanks psr ji, see it saved me the same typo here) he answered perfectly about the engine heating/moderating it's temperature characteristics according to air density and temperature, irrespective of the oil, though oil plays a MAJOR chunk of the cooling process.

Cheers!
VJ

[Honda_CBF]

Hmm yea planning to change oil, thinking if I should go back to motul 3000 or try the shell ax7. Is the heat due to petrol combustion or due to friction? Coz I don't think engine oil can make fuel burn hotter and if its due to friction then its a bad thing, more heat=more friction=faster engine wear right?

No.. You didn't got my point. I meant this gulf oil is helping your engine to loose more heat than your previous oil. which is good (this is just a guess). If it would have caused more friction then you would have known it within few 100kms because of breakdown or performance issues or abnormal noises. And you haven't altered the AFR, so there's no change in the heat produced with the combustion. Btw, how much you have run on gulf??

[sinnerz2000]

No.. You didn't got my point. I meant this gulf oil is helping your engine to loose more heat than your previous oil. which is good (this is just a guess). If it would have caused more friction then you would have known it within few 100kms because of breakdown or performance issues or abnormal noises. And you haven't altered the AFR, so there's no change in the heat produced with the combustion. Btw, how much you have run on gulf??

If its losing heat then it should be cooler not hotter right? Hmm gulf I used 2500km first then next service I put gulf again, its run 1000km so far

[mayank.travadi]

i shifted to motul 3000 from bajaj dtsi oil for my 2nd service at 905km on odo(first oil change at 196km with dtsi oil at SVC)..the drained out oil was looking dirty and muddy and the thickness was significantly lesser than the new motul 3000 oil..initial 5 kms ride after the oil change wasnt much of a difference but after about 4 hours when the bike was parked i went for a ride and the ride was a combination of smooth and something weird...earlier on bajaj oil when i took off from 1st gear even with little throttle and releasing the clutch quite quickly i could take off...but today while riding in a similar way the bike gave jerks and stuttered like it was getting out of gas and i had to give more throttle than what i usually gave and leave the clutch more slowly for the bike to move properly...what can be the issue? the engine is surely much less noisy and gear shifts are more or less the same.

i spoke thru Pm with a fellow NS owner and as per him i noticed with new oil the RPM at idle has decreased..changed the oil outside right after getting 2nd service at SVC...idle was set at 1.4 and now dropped to 1.3 with new oil


is it an issue with oil ya some clutch adjustment?


this is the oil which was drained out...just a 700km old oil...it was quite thin and looked dirty and muddy...now this says oil was doing its job very well but then...i dont want such a dirty oil in my engine...i gues i took a good decision to change it...

also can someone explain if oil which turns black and dirty how can it be a good oil...i mean it has gunk in it...should it stay in the engine?