Engine Oils

[B7ACKTHORN]

As far as i have heard, TVS lube is no good.

I would suggest Diamond or Rolon chain lubes, costs at Rs 120/- and Rs 140/- respectively, Rolon lube bottle is slightly bigger than diamond, both are thick sprays, stays on for longer duration than Motul in wet/muddy conditions.
But the downside is will be used up in a few sprays, might be able to lube the chain in 3-4 times with the rolon or diamond lube's.

Cheers
Ride Safe
Krishna

I have a used TVS, Motul and one more. All three performed well. Motul being very good lubrication, but it being watery, it needed frequent spraying. TVS, holds up well, but for a very very short time. It isn't to say it's not good, it does very well, but it needs more frequent lubrication than Motul, though the visocity is a little thicker than Motul.

I even noticed the same thing ,according to a retailer -people now are switching to other brands because the entire market is being flooded with fake castrol.
Castrol costs ~Rs.250 per liter whereas Motul 3K 20w40 costs just Rs.200 (even less if there is a cash coupon inside).
Apart from that - Motul 3000,Bosch,TOP 1 oils are flooding the market now.

Here are some pictures of my Splendor's 8 year old engine,last oil I used was AX7.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]86820[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]86818[/ATTACH]

Pretty good. So that's SHELL for you.

Cheers!
VJ

[B7ACKTHORN]

okay i'll just stick to OKS for the time being...

cant we just get TVS from its ASC?

but if its hard to source i'll save myself the head ache and get the OKS...

thanks

Glad to help, sorry didn't see your post or posted while I was typing. If you can't get the one, get the you can go for. Simple!!

Cheers!
VJ

[madhav766]

Re: Engine Oils

Hey all! I own an RTR180ABS and I bought it only a couple of months ago. My query: tvs already suggests a 10w-30 grade semi synthetic oil for the bike. That's the oil that has been in my bike from day one. I was wondering if I can upgrade to shell ax7 right now.

Sent from my WT19i

[B7ACKTHORN]

Hey all! I own an RTR180ABS and I bought it only a couple of months ago. My query: tvs already suggests a 10w-30 grade semi synthetic oil for the bike. That's the oil that has been in my bike from day one. I was wondering if I can upgrade to shell ax7 right now.

Sent from my WT19i

I have no idea as to why not to use the Shell AX7. With a drain interval of 2 to 4k KMS it's a nice way to treat your engine.

Cheers!
VJ

[mayank.travadi]

Glad to help, sorry didn't see your post or posted while I was typing. If you can't get the one, get the you can go for. Simple!! Cheers! VJ

thanks also can you suggest how to clean the chain yes i did see the diy but my chain isnt so dirty and if i do keep cleaning and lubing at regular intervals i wont have to follow huge procedures like opening up d whole chain i do have 2 cans of WD-40 lying around wonder where else i can use it

[B7ACKTHORN]

thanks also can you suggest how to clean the chain yes i did see the diy but my chain isnt so dirty and if i do keep cleaning and lubing at regular intervals i wont have to follow huge procedures like opening up d whole chain i do have 2 cans of WD-40 lying around wonder where else i can use it

Absolutely!! Just proper lubing and maintenance of the chain, can well exceed the chain and sprocket's normal life expectancy, by a huge margin. It's just people don't care, they are satisfied as long as something is making the bike run, which is sad.

Cheers!
VJ

[shoeb2015]

Pretty good. So that's SHELL for you.

You can say that but I always changed the oil within 2000kms or 4months(for 20W40) and within 1500kms(for 10w30).
I think AX7 10W40 shall be good for only 2000kms only,as some say that it is too wide a range for a Semi-synthetic because viscosity index improvers go bad over time.Experts please take over.
A member Sibun has reported that shell oils have more detergents compared to other oils which keeps the engine clean but oil looks dark soon.http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/motorcyc...tml#post893597

P.S- All I wanted to say is that timely oil change will keep the engine clean and there will be no need of using additives or flushes for the entire life of the engine.

[B7ACKTHORN]

You can say that but I always changed the oil within 2000kms or 4months(for 20W40) and within 1500kms(for 10w30).
I think AX7 10W40 shall be good for only 2000kms only,as some say that it is too wide a range for a Semi-synthetic because viscosity index improvers go bad over time.Experts please take over.
A member Sibun has reported that shell oils have more detergents compared to other oils which keeps the engine clean but oil looks dark soon.http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/motorcyc...tml#post893597

P.S- All I wanted to say is that timely oil change will keep the engine clean and there will be no need of using additives or flushes for the entire life of the engine.

I used the same oil in my Victor for 3k Kms without any problemm, though my usage was very very less. And to tell you a there is an oil called Bajaj 10,000 DTSI which has a drain interval of 10k as the name suggests, but it goes water at 4k. Not all oils are true to their nature. Me used the oil vouch for it at least for 3k it was fine, and then changed to another grade completely.

Cheers!
VJ

[Pinaki]

What is the price of this gear oil... I have been using HP's EP 140 in 98 Rs. If the prices are similar or even if it is not, I would suggest to go with HP's product.
Also the company who does not know how to spell "pressure" (As is in the image you attached) cant be relied on their oils ...

Yah , I noticed that one too - but I'd not hold that against them for their oil . I'll bet no one at the HeroHonda ASC I visit would be able to spell that correctly either .
Oiling every weekend between 2 bikes , my current bottle of Castrol GL4 (ep90 gear oil) is half gone in 3 months flat . I am going to try your HP ep140 then next and see ...

This is definitely not a misconception(I never write any probability or idea as a statement) because I had used EP-140 oil for my Unicorn. I share my experience with Grease, EP-140 & EP-90.
With Grease the chain feels super smooth and super quiet but definitely not Slick.
With EP-140 the chain feels super Silky and quieter but not Slick.
With EP-90 the chain feels smooth and quiet but definitely Slick.

EP-140 -- Attracts more dust -- lubrication interval is short with more dust continuously accumulating.
EP-90 -- Attracts less dust -- lubrication interval is long with less dust accumulation ...

I know what you mean and I feel you are right . You confirm my own experiences . Problem with non o-ring chains is you need a lube that is light enough to seep right inside the pin-bush mating surface deep inside the rollers through the gap in the sideplates , and stay there . Grease/140 gear oil doesn't get in there , it just hangs around under the external roller rings - but stays on longer . That reduces the friction between those rollers and link-pins and also between the rollers and the sprocket teeth . But does zero in the vital area . So the chain goes on wearing and elongating while it feels quiet and smooth . No slickness in gearshifts too .

90 gear oil on the other hand gets in there and does the lube job well , but doesn't stay around for more than a week at most - I felt . It flings off easily . But that has a secondary benefit . 90 gear oil becomes self-cleaning , i.e it takes away the dirt and chain wear particles with it when it goes . So you can even avoid ANY chain cleaning if you keep using EP90 regularly . Gearshifts are very very slick with freshly applied EP90 oil . I love that so much that I lube the chain weekly since I found out . Chain wear reduces to almost zero .

Being the lazy bum that I am , I am torn between the two . Best would be something that has the consistency of grease , gets in there easily and stays on . Maybe something in the line of the molten-grease method that some bullet mechs use here or Putoline Chain Wax - 1kg Tub - Boiling Wax - Motorcycle | eBay .

I paid Rs40 (per 500ml can) for that gear oil. Using it for the only reason i.e. Its cheap. It sticks like gum, attracts lots of dust. But i mix this gear oil with used engine oil for chain which makes it something like 100-120 grade oil.. Works pretty ok. I know used engine oil, some spurious gear oil etc can make my chain life short but chain's already almost gone. So I'm saving some 'vitamin M' by all this, along with some care towards bike..Btw, EP90 is best bet for chains, IMO.

Thanks , I'll check if this cheap oil is available here . Rs40 is cheap experiment even - lets see . No problem in using drained engine oil , although I don't generally recommend it - most mechanics here do just that , including the guys at most ASCs without any serious harm . Used oil on the chain is at the least better than no oil . I can admit that I have a few bottles of 20w40 engine oil that I had to drain early(~700kms of use) because of engine work and use that for various general lubrication purposes , including the chain sometimes when I'm out of gear lube and haven't had time to get the new bottle yet . Only problem is that it's a bit thin and the chain needs a mid-week re-application , otherwise it gets noisy - and that's too much work for lazy guy .

Now since the topic of gear oils and chain lubricants is going on I want to ask something
I own a p200ns
On my first service the svc guys lubed d chain with gear oil but I don't know which grade.
I always thought o-ring chains are to be lubed with spray
On insisting he used oks spray
Please guide which will ne the best grade of gear oil or which company spray to use( I just one motul oks AnD tvs)
Also I am not the diy type and want be opening up chain and cleaning it
What method do u suggest to maintain d chain

Hello mayank , your 200NS has an o-ring type chain . The vital area of the chain that needs lubrication (i.e the pins that hold it together) already contains the necessary grease inside it . Those o-rings , one on either side of each link , keeps the grease in and dirt out - for the life of the chain . So lubrication serves only 2 purposes in an o-ring chain . i) keep the rubber o-rings supple and prevent their dry-out and cracking (ii) minor lubrication of the rollers to reduce friction between rollers and sprocket teeth . The second is minor because in a drive chain the pins and it's bushing are the major load bearing surface , not the rollers . Also you need to keep the rubber o-rings clean to prevent them wearing out by friction with embedded grit . Remember that in an o-ring type chain if one single of those ring breaks off , you'll have to replace that link , remove it altogether or replace the chain as a whole .

Maintenance procedure is to periodically clean the chain , brush with soft toothbrush to remove loose dirt then with kerosene and soft toothbrush brush very gently(so as not to hurt those rubber rings) . Wipe off with soft cloth(like a piece of old t-shirt or baniyan) and apply any light lubricant that is sufficient to keep the rubber o-rings supple . Ordinary motor oil applied sparingly and the excess wiped off with soft clean cloth will do that very well . No need to dismount the chain , in fact you should never apply excess or immerse the chain in solvent or use anything that might penetrate into the chain links past the rings (Pressure washing the chain is also not recommended) . That will contaminate ,dilute and/or effectively remove the factory lubricant . With the chain being open you should repeat this every time it gets wet if possible - but with an open chain, it's an 10min's job so no problem .

[Honda_CBF]

@ pinaki,why don't you use EP90 on chain, then ride the bike a little so that oil can penetrate all over, and then apply a fine coat of EP140 on outer side plates & on rollers? Thicker oil will help thinner oil stay, where its needed. Your bikes with chain covers would love it I think.. No drama of dust accumulation due to 140 grade only

[Pinaki]

I have not tried this , but have tried similar method by applying grease after the 90 gear oil . With two types of grease too . It does work well for a month or so . Problem is that the outer grease doesn't stick very well owing to the oil inside and keeps flinging off . Also once the grease gets gritty it is no use applying more oil over it because that doesn't go in . Then you have to clean up the whole thing with kerosene , dry it and reapply oil . More trouble overall than just brushing on a bit of oil weekly I felt .
ps - the local enfield-bullet mechanic claims that with the molten grease method , which is basically cooking the dismounted chain in molten grease for about ten twenty mins , you don't need to apply any lube in a year . Well if that's six months , i'm in .

[mayank.travadi]

@pinaki sir thanks for your valuable advice. I very much appreciate you helping us with your knowledge.Yes the Oring chains are more easier to maintain. But i am more worried about the method and the things used if they would harm the o-rings and the sealed lubricant in it. I have read even kersoenes and diesel are penetrants.Wont they take away the sealed lubricant? how about WD-40? i know its controversial but what do you say? if not on chains were to use? i have 2 cans sitting idle.

[B7ACKTHORN]

...90 gear oil on the other hand gets in there and does the lube job well , but doesn't stay around for more than a week at most - I felt . It flings off easily . But that has a secondary benefit . 90 gear oil becomes self-cleaning , i.e it takes away the dirt and chain wear particles with it when it goes . So you can even avoid ANY chain cleaning if you keep using EP90 regularly . Gearshifts are very very slick with freshly applied EP90 oil . I love that so much that I lube the chain weekly since I found out . Chain wear reduces to almost zero .

Being the lazy bum that I am , I am torn between the two . Best would be something that has the consistency of grease , gets in there easily and stays on . Maybe something in the line of the molten-grease method that some bullet mechs use here or Putoline Chain Wax - 1kg Tub - Boiling Wax - Motorcycle | eBay .

Thanks , I'll check if this cheap oil is available here . Rs40 is cheap experiment even - lets see . No problem in using drained engine oil , although I don't generally recommend it - most mechanics here do just that , including the guys at most ASCs without any serious harm . Used oil on the chain is at the least better than no oil . I can admit that I have a few bottles of 20w40 engine oil that I had to drain early(~700kms of use) because of engine work and use that for various general lubrication purposes , including the chain sometimes when I'm out of gear lube and haven't had time to get the new bottle yet . Only problem is that it's a bit thin and the chain needs a mid-week re-application , otherwise it gets noisy - and that's too much work for lazy guy .

Hello mayank , your 200NS has an o-ring type chain . The vital area of the chain that needs lubrication (i.e the pins that hold it together) already contains the necessary grease inside it . Those o-rings , one on either side of each link , keeps the grease in and dirt out - for the life of the chain . So lubrication serves only 2 purposes in an o-ring chain . i) keep the rubber o-rings supple and prevent their dry-out and cracking (ii) minor lubrication of the rollers to reduce friction between rollers and sprocket teeth . The second is minor because in a drive chain the pins and it's bushing are the major load bearing surface , not the rollers . Also you need to keep the rubber o-rings clean to prevent them wearing out by friction with embedded grit . Remember that in an o-ring type chain if one single of those ring breaks off , you'll have to replace that link , remove it altogether or replace the chain as a whole .

Maintenance procedure is to periodically clean the chain , brush with soft toothbrush to remove loose dirt then with kerosene and soft toothbrush brush very gently(so as not to hurt those rubber rings) . Wipe off with soft cloth(like a piece of old t-shirt or baniyan) and apply any light lubricant that is sufficient to keep the rubber o-rings supple . Ordinary motor oil applied sparingly and the excess wiped off with soft clean cloth will do that very well . No need to dismount the chain , in fact you should never apply excess or immerse the chain in solvent or use anything that might penetrate into the chain links past the rings (Pressure washing the chain is also not recommended) . That will contaminate ,dilute and/or effectively remove the factory lubricant . With the chain being open you should repeat this every time it gets wet if possible - but with an open chain, it's an 10min's job so no problem .

I have not tried this , but have tried similar method by applying grease after the 90 gear oil . With two types of grease too . It does work well for a month or so . Problem is that the outer grease doesn't stick very well owing to the oil inside and keeps flinging off . Also once the grease gets gritty it is no use applying more oil over it because that doesn't go in . Then you have to clean up the whole thing with kerosene , dry it and reapply oil . More trouble overall than just brushing on a bit of oil weekly I felt .
ps - the local enfield-bullet mechanic claims that with the molten grease method , which is basically cooking the dismounted chain in molten grease for about ten twenty mins , you don't need to apply any lube in a year . Well if that's six months , i'm in .

@pinaki sir thanks for your valuable advice. I very much appreciate you helping us with your knowledge.Yes the Oring chains are more easier to maintain. But i am more worried about the method and the things used if they would harm the o-rings and the sealed lubricant in it. I have read even kersoenes and diesel are penetrants.Wont they take away the sealed lubricant? how about WD-40? i know its controversial but what do you say? if not on chains were to use? i have 2 cans sitting idle.

But it'd be a remiss if I don't include my two cents here. Just excellent, exactly the way I do things. Spot on, Pinaki ji, spot on But one query is the molten grease cooking method? Is it "cooking" method feasible to do it in O-rings and ordinary chain or just the ordinary ones? Because, I've heard of molten grease usage, but cooking to 20 mins and the chain's life extending even more is new territory to me.

Cheers!
VJ

[Pinaki]

... But i am more worried about the method and the things used if they would harm the o-rings and the sealed lubricant in it. I have read even kersoenes and diesel are penetrants.Wont they take away the sealed lubricant? how about WD-40? i know its controversial but what do you say? if not on chains were to use? i have 2 cans sitting idle.

Kerosene is the known safe solvent to use on this type of chains . Use it sparingly , gently brushing it on the semi-clean chain and with the soft bristled brush and immediately wiping off with soft cloth and let it dry off . Penetration does not occur with such short exposure time . Try it once and see , don't forget to brush off all the loose dirt you can before you apply kero . No point experimenting with other solvents just because you have it in stock , unless of-course you also have an spare chain in stock . your WD40 shall have 1001 other uses . Else you can use packaged aerosol chain cleaners like the Motul's , which is really good & convenient to use and carry on a trip . However 2-3 cans of that will buy you a brand new chain-sprocket set .

... But one query is the molten grease cooking method? Is it "cooking" method feasible to do it in O-rings and ordinary chain or just the ordinary ones? Because, I've heard of molten grease usage, but cooking to 20 mins and the chain's life extending even more is new territory to me ...

This is the traditional method for non o-ring chains only . The chain is taken off the bike (which is some exercise for the old bullets) and cleaned well in kerosene . They drop the whole chain in a small plastic jerrycan half full of kero and slosh it around . Then pick it up with a cycle spoke hooked at one end and hang it to dry . Then they place a shallow pan with the chain in it on an electric heater . As the chain starts to give off kerosene fumes , they lump some grease on it . Cheap grease . Then add more and more grease as it melts to cover the chain . The heat is controlled by periodically removing the pan from the heater , as the molten grease is very flamable too . The heat is kept on until no more air bubbles comes out of the chain in the molten grease . Which means that the grease has really penetrated the pins & sleeving bush deep into the chain and there is no more trapped air gaps inside it . Then heater is turned off and chain is fished out again with that same spoke-hook and excess grease allowed to drip back into the pan . It is then hung to cool off and mounted back on to the bike and slack adjusted . You are not supposed to clean or lube this chain ever again so that the grease now trapped inside may not be driven out . That is untill the next time .
Putoline chain wax is a similar product where you can place the can directly on heat and the chain soak in it . The can is designed to hold the whole chain and the remaining used grease(it's a hard grease,not really an wax) for the next time . I've only heard about this .

[sandeepcf]

Lump some grease on it . Cheap grease . Then add more and more grease as it melts to cover the chain . The heat is controlled by periodically removing the pan from the heater , as the molten grease is very flamable too . The heat is kept on until no more air bubbles comes out of the chain in the molten grease . Which means that the grease has really penetrated the pins & sleeving bush deep into the chain and there is no more trapped air gaps inside it . Then heater is turned off and chain is fished out again with that same spoke-hook and excess grease allowed to drip back into the pan . It is then hung to cool off and mounted back on to the bike and slack adjusted . You are not supposed to clean or lube this chain ever again so that the grease now trapped inside may not be driven out . That is untill the next time .
Putoline chain wax is a similar product where you can place the can directly on heat and the chain soak in it . The can is designed to hold the whole chain and the remaining used grease(it's a hard grease,not really an wax) for the next time . I've only heard about this .

What grease works for this process? Once I heated Multi Purpose Grease on the stove and all I got was fumes from the pan and also from my mother.