Engine Oils

[B7ACKTHORN]

i shifted to motul 3000 from bajaj dtsi oil for my 2nd service at 905km on odo(first oil change at 196km with dtsi oil at SVC)..the drained out oil was looking dirty and muddy and the thickness was significantly lesser than the new motul 3000 oil..initial 5 kms ride after the oil change wasnt much of a difference but after about 4 hours when the bike was parked i went for a ride and the ride was a combination of smooth and something weird...earlier on bajaj oil when i took off from 1st gear even with little throttle and releasing the clutch quite quickly i could take off...but today while riding in a similar way the bike gave jerks and stuttered like it was getting out of gas and i had to give more throttle than what i usually gave and leave the clutch more slowly for the bike to move properly...what can be the issue? the engine is surely much less noisy and gear shifts are more or less the same.

i spoke thru Pm with a fellow NS owner and as per him i noticed with new oil the RPM at idle has decreased..changed the oil outside right after getting 2nd service at SVC...idle was set at 1.4 and now dropped to 1.3 with new oil [/QUOTE]

Did they adjust the carb setting of the bike? If yes, then that could be the culprit for stuttering. Clutch setting too, could be a culprit, as these SVC guys do change the clutch play even if we adjust the play to our convenience. Too low and too high clutch causes the same. An oil can't cause any stuttering for that matter. NVH can be caused by the usage of engine oil, but not stuttering. Either you're just paranoid after the oil change or the bike just needed some warm up of the engine. But it's all the best I could guess.

this is the oil which was drained out...just a 700km old oil...it was quite thin and looked dirty and muddy...now this says oil was doing its job very well but then...i dont want such a dirty oil in my engine...i gues i took a good decision to change it...

also can someone explain if oil which turns black and dirty how can it be a good oil...i mean it has gunk in it...should it stay in the engine?

Any new engine oil, drained for the first time, could even have metal chips, foam etc, and that is the reason break in and oil change are very important. It means the engine is getting used its parts and the parts are getting used to the oil, which in turn helps the engine to smooth out.

Mind you, your bike is very new considering the KMS its clocked. Unless the third service or so, the bike's engine is still in the process of fine tuning itself and adjusting itself all.

Bottom line, your bike's engine and oil is just as it is supposed to be.

Cheers!
VJ

[mayank.travadi]

NVH? no clutch adjustment was done.i complained of false neutral,he had no idea what it meant and said clutch is perfect if i adjust then u will have problem shifting. the carb was tuned.i had richened the mixture to about 9% CO to eliminate vibes and now its set at 2.5% the bike was fine for the 5km ride back home. after a 4 hour rest when i rode,i had to give more throttle,leave clutch more slowly.i left clutch early i suppose which caused jerks,stutter.after shift and clutch engage ride is normal smooth.

[B7ACKTHORN]

NVH? no clutch adjustment was done.i complained of false neutral,he had no idea what it meant and said clutch is perfect if i adjust then u will have problem shifting. the carb was tuned.i had richened the mixture to about 9% CO to eliminate vibes and now its set at 2.5% the bike was fine for the 5km ride back home. after a 4 hour rest when i rode,i had to give more throttle,leave clutch more slowly.i left clutch early i suppose which caused jerks,stutter.after shift and clutch engage ride is normal smooth.

Yes you might have left the clutch early or the clutch setting was screwed up, but you can always get it adjusted as per your requirements. NVH - Noise, Vibration and Harshness.

Cheers!
VJ

[mayank.travadi]

well leaving clutch early at each shift is highly improbable...even my riding style hasnt changed and the clutch freeplay and hardness feels the same but still there is the issue. anyways can u guide me in how to adjust the clutch?might give it a shot and hope not to screw up. thanks

[shoeb2015]

Calcium Phenate Sulphide is a detergent - 5% is too much of it frankly!! My choice of Delvac 1300 was based puerly on ZDDP levels found on US supplies. Didnt knew ZDDP is not present in Indian supplies. But it may contain Molybdenum compounds as I am enjoying every drop of it. But if the comfort level is high this oil can really last very very long in petrol engines of our bikes (5% Dispersant - Man are you kidding me! But thats true.. checked it on the MSDS of Indian origon oil) in my opinion Delvac 1400 would be better then.



I think my earlier detailed views would clarify the use of diesel engine oil in bikes.. High detergent level gives higher friction - added friction reducers and ZDDP compensates and reduces friction - Overall, clutch does not slip. If it slips - Avoid using these oils!

Then you should definitely try Mobil Delvac Super 1400. I am loving it,expect a full review in the month of April/May.
I also think this could be the best oil for my 2004 Splendor plus which does not have any catalytic converter.
BTW,What does CALCIUM ALKYL SALICYLATE do ?
I have used many diesel engine oils(in my car) and IMHO,Mobil Delvac 1400 is one of the best oil for under Rs.300/-. Less chances of getting a fake oil,not much in demand(Mechanics here recommend only kaistor oil -as they say).

Sent you a pm.

[muztariq]

well leaving clutch early at each shift is highly improbable...even my riding style hasnt changed and the clutch freeplay and hardness feels the same but still there is the issue. anyways can u guide me in how to adjust the clutch?might give it a shot and hope not to screw up. thanks

After oil change the idle rpms should be set again. If you used 15W50 grade and 20w50 grade slight change in engine rpms are possible, its unnoticed in tuning which has a margin left.. but a bike tuned on the border.. i.e a slight change in oil viscosity of clutch wire slack impacts the tuning.. it has to retuned. Its always better to keep rpms a little higher to accomodate cold starts or the engine jerks when cold.

If its losing heat then it should be cooler not hotter right? Hmm gulf I used 2500km first then next service I put gulf again, its run 1000km so far

what i think is that you are just running too lean. leaner the tuning.. hotter the engine.

Then you should definitely try Mobil Delvac Super 1400. I am loving it,expect a full review in the month of April/May.
I also think this could be the best oil for my 2004 Splendor plus which does not have any catalytic converter.
BTW,What does CALCIUM ALKYL SALICYLATE do ?
I have used many diesel engine oils(in my car) and IMHO,Mobil Delvac 1400 is one of the best oil for under Rs.300/-. Less chances of getting a fake oil,not much in demand(Mechanics here recommend only kaistor oil -as they say).

Sent you a pm.

Calcium alkyl salicylate is also a detergent. There are many types of detergents.. Phenates, carboxylates and salicylates are common.

I have a petrol car and consider total quartz brand of oils the best for it. Have heard diesel car owners praising Mobil Delvac MX a lot.

[B7ACKTHORN]

well leaving clutch early at each shift is highly improbable...even my riding style hasnt changed and the clutch freeplay and hardness feels the same but still there is the issue. anyways can u guide me in how to adjust the clutch?might give it a shot and hope not to screw up. thanks

Clutch adjustment isn't a big deal. I haven't adjusted the clutch in a 200 NS, but you can get it rectified at your local mech, it hardly takes less than a minute. Just watch how he does and you can do the same again. It just requires a size 6/7 or 8/9 spanner either one of the both.

Then you should definitely try Mobil Delvac Super 1400. I am loving it,expect a full review in the month of April/May.
I also think this could be the best oil for my 2004 Splendor plus which does not have any catalytic converter.
BTW,What does CALCIUM ALKYL SALICYLATE do ?
I have used many diesel engine oils(in my car) and IMHO,Mobil Delvac 1400 is one of the best oil for under Rs.300/-. Less chances of getting a fake oil,not much in demand(Mechanics here recommend only kaistor oil -as they say).

Sent you a pm.

I guess muztariq mentioned the uses of CAS a few pages back. He's absolutely right, it's a detergent, and Na, Ph, Mo, Ca, etc etc they're all detergents/additves added to base oil.

Cheers!
VJ

[arjunb25]

Suggestion between 2 oils

Need help for unicorn what do u suggest for it,castrol power 1 semi synthetic 15w40 or as i have been using moto 4 gold 20w40 want something better will the change of oil affect the fuel efficiency right now I am getting 53 in city well I was using gulf pride 4t plus I just changed to moto 4 gold just to see but not that good as I was expecting it to be in comparison with gulf but yes I was wondering what if I change to a semi synthetic oil like castrol power 1 15w40 what do u all suggest here well I would really love to know this from you owners who r using unicorn or this grade of oil for the inputs of this oil as to take the right decision to go for or not. Other than this anything else u suggest is also welcome I have done 5500 km

[muztariq]

Need help for unicorn what do u suggest for it,castrol power 1 semi synthetic 15w40 or as i have been using moto 4 gold 20w40 want something better will the change of oil affect the fuel efficiency right now I am getting 53 in city well I was using gulf pride 4t plus I just changed to moto 4 gold just to see but not that good as I was expecting it to be in comparison with gulf but yes I was wondering what if I change to a semi synthetic oil like castrol power 1 15w40 what do u all suggest here well I would really love to know this from you owners who r using unicorn or this grade of oil for the inputs of this oil as to take the right decision to go for or not. Other than this anything else u suggest is also welcome I have done 5500 km

There is no perceivable difference in mileage between two oils having similar viscosities like 10w30 and 10w40 (yes if you multiply 1 km/l with 15, 20, 30 lakh bikes yes, there is a statistically significant difference).
My experience with castrol power 1 15w40 is not discussable. It was a genuine oil but still the quality gave way within 500 kms.
If you want a good quality oil for unicorn go for shell 10w40 AX7 or Elf SS grades or some other grades SERVO has intoduced cost efficient FS oils also there is MAK NXT.. you can try those too.

[Honda_CBF]

If its losing heat then it should be cooler not hotter right?

yup. Right. But as I said earlier, I'm not sure. Even my bike felt hotter with yamalube 15w50. No tuning change. Nothing. Changed oil and bike felt hotter. I think its long time & you should start troubleshooting, check spark plug electrode. Brown = good. Black with no deposits = slightly rich, preferable. Black with deposits = too rich. Color less = slightly lean, ok if your running is low like 5kms after a cold start. White = too lean. Posting the pic of it would be better as many other can look into it..

[Pinaki]

I've actually noticed this heat since I shifted from motul to gulf, when I first put gulf I was getting a burnung oil smell for few days then it stopped

Ok now since 10w30 is not recommended for summer(and I ride long distance at high speeds), if I use shell ax7 should I go for the 10w40 or 15w50 one? I'm currently on gulf 20w40

Since your bike was feeling better with it , shift back to 20w40 motul when this oil is used up . SInce you ride like that and have experienced much engine heat , don't even dream of shifting to the 10 based oils(10wxx etc) . You won't like it . My humble advice , save the experiment money and utilise that to change oil every 2000kms ( or 4-5 months if earlier ) .

i shifted to motul 3000 from bajaj dtsi oil for my 2nd service at 905km on odo(first oil change at 196km with dtsi oil at SVC)..the drained out oil was looking dirty and muddy and the thickness was significantly lesser than the new motul 3000 oil..initial 5 kms ride after the oil change wasnt much of a difference but after about 4 hours when the bike was parked i went for a ride and the ride was a combination of smooth and something weird...earlier on bajaj oil when i took off from 1st gear even with little throttle and releasing the clutch quite quickly i could take off...but today while riding in a similar way the bike gave jerks and stuttered like it was getting out of gas and i had to give more throttle than what i usually gave and leave the clutch more slowly for the bike to move properly...what can be the issue? the engine is surely much less noisy and gear shifts are more or less the same.
i spoke thru Pm with a fellow NS owner and as per him i noticed with new oil the RPM at idle has decreased..changed the oil outside right after getting 2nd service at SVC...idle was set at 1.4 and now dropped to 1.3 with new oil
.....
this is the oil which was drained out...just a 700km old oil...it was quite thin and looked dirty and muddy...now this says oil was doing its job very well but then...i dont want such a dirty oil in my engine...i gues i took a good decision to change it...also can someone explain if oil which turns black and dirty how can it be a good oil...i mean it has gunk in it...should it stay in the engine?

It's normal for fresh new oil to reduce idle rpm a bit , compared to your old oil . This is because your old oil had it's viscosity reduced(thinner) through use , which is normal degrade of multigrade mineral oils . In your case , oil degradation was faster since the engine is new (more friction,more heat) . So engine was spinning faster in the thinner oil , compared to that in fresh oil with correct viscosity . No problem - allow the oil to settle a for a couple of 100kms and you'll not feel this anymore . No need for any adjustments .
You are right , cleaning of internal parts and keeping the collected dirt suspended in itself(not allowing it to settle and clog) is one of the jobs the engine oil has to do and hence gets dirty itself . And that is why we have to change it often .

[sinnerz2000]

Since your bike was feeling better with it , shift back to 20w40 motul when this oil is used up . SInce you ride like that and have experienced much engine heat , don't even dream of shifting to the 10 based oils(10wxx etc) . You won't like it . My humble advice , save the experiment money and utilise that to change oil every 2000kms ( or 4-5 months if earlier ) .

It's normal for fresh new oil to reduce idle rpm a bit , compared to your old oil . This is because your old oil had it's viscosity reduced(thinner) through use , which is normal degrade of multigrade mineral oils . In your case , oil degradation was faster since the engine is new (more friction,more heat) . So engine was spinning faster in the thinner oil , compared to that in fresh oil with correct viscosity . No problem - allow the oil to settle a for a couple of 100kms and you'll not feel this anymore . No need for any adjustments .
You are right , cleaning of internal parts and keeping the collected dirt suspended in itself(not allowing it to settle and clog) is one of the jobs the engine oil has to do and hence gets dirty itself . And that is why we have to change it often .

So ur saying not to use any 10wxx oil, but I was planning to shift to a semi synthetic oil which come only in 10w40 and 15w50 grades, are those ok? Coz I'm not supposed to use 10wxx and xxw50 right?

[B7ACKTHORN]

So ur saying not to use any 10wxx oil, but I was planning to shift to a semi synthetic oil which come only in 10w40 and 15w50 grades, are those ok? Coz I'm not supposed to use 10wxx and xxw50 right?

Tell you what, Pinaki is right about, "save the experiment money and utilize that money to change oil" Just as a change of thought, you've been asking the same question all over again, again and again. It's very simple buddy, stick to the oil grade and stick to the one you feel comfortable with. Everyone's experience differs.

Instead of experimenting and trying get to the reviews for the entire out set out there, go for the one you like, based upon the suggestions. People have given you inputs on the chemical usages etc, which should be an eye opener for you to make the right decision. I appreciate your thirst for knowledge, but I hope this will put an end to all your queries. Thanks!

............
You are right , cleaning of internal parts and keeping the collected dirt suspended in itself(not allowing it to settle and clog) is one of the jobs the engine oil has to do and hence gets dirty itself . And that is why we have to change it often .

@mayank, this is where oil filters come in, for the exact reason, Pinaki mentioned.

Cheers!
VJ

[Pinaki]

So ur saying not to use any 10wxx oil, but I was planning to shift to a semi synthetic oil which come only in 10w40 and 15w50 grades, are those ok? Coz I'm not supposed to use 10wxx and xxw50 right?

I don't believe in semi-synthetic . It's the same mineral oil with a little bit of synthetic in it . It has some of the same charecteristics - like you need to replace oil every 2000kms or so and is more expensive to do so then . If you run as many kilometers that justifies a liter of full synthetic oil every six months , you can go for it . Like for example you run more than 2000kms every month and can't be bothered to drain and replace the oil every month , I feel one can then opt for a full synthetic oil to extend the oil change interval to a more reasonable 2-3 months . Or say you run your bike between two places with extreme variation of climate , and thus regularly encounter a temperature range that is not possible to cover with a mineral oil grade , then you should be filling full synthetic of suitable grade that can cover that range .
All I can say is 10w30/10w40 semi-synthetic oil is not suitable for your bike for long and hard riding in Indian summers , other than it de-grading faster than your current 20w40 mineral .
However if you really want to try it out with a bottle of oil , there is no harm in it either .

[sinnerz2000]

I don't believe in semi-synthetic . It's the same mineral oil with a little bit of synthetic in it . It has some of the same charecteristics - like you need to replace oil every 2000kms or so and is more expensive to do so then . If you run as many kilometers that justifies a liter of full synthetic oil every six months , you can go for it . Like for example you run more than 2000kms every month and can't be bothered to drain and replace the oil every month , I feel one can then opt for a full synthetic oil to extend the oil change interval to a more reasonable 2-3 months . Or say you run your bike between two places with extreme variation of climate , and thus regularly encounter a temperature range that is not possible to cover with a mineral oil grade , then you should be filling full synthetic of suitable grade that can cover that range .
All I can say is 10w30/10w40 semi-synthetic oil is not suitable for your bike for long and hard riding in Indian summers , other than it de-grading faster than your current 20w40 mineral .
However if you really want to try it out with a bottle of oil , there is no harm in it either .

Hmm fine then I'll just stick to motul mineral for the summer atleast, the problem is me and my bro have the same model unicorn, just difference is his is about 10k less used than mine, but when I ride his bike it feels soo different, the bikes pickup is very quick compared to mine, and in mine I change gear at 4 rmp coz of the bikes sound and his bike I change at 5rpm so its like my unis engine is as stressed at 4rpm as his unis 5rpm. And its so smooth too, compared to his bike mine feels like a bajaj engine I don't think 10k difference would make so much difference in performance and smoothness on 2 bikes