Engine Oils

[muztariq]

Thanks, I was confused because someone at the Ownership thread said that synthetic oil should not be used during run-in period of the bike.

A 600 km run bike engine is around 80% broken in.. So, you already crossed your initial run in. Relax. The oil is perfect, enjoy the smoothness.

ok how does a 15w40 differ from 10w40 grade at higher temp? which oil will have lesser viscosity at high temperatures?
in long drives if given a choice which will have more operating efficiency? i mean in long drives more than pick up the engine should have better cooling....

Modern 10w40 oils are made by adding synthetics to mineral oil. Hence, a 10w40 will be better than a 15W40 (theoretically). Practically.. Not much difference.

My bikes (CBZ Star) service is due. I would like to know out of the following three oils which one should i go for.

Motul 3100 20W40
Gulf Pride 4T Plus 10W30
Yamalube 10W40 All purpose performance oil

Regarding Yamalube can i only get it from a Yamaha service station or can i get them in normal shops as well. Also how much is the cost for Yamalube?

Motul anyday.. Though the recommendation for a cbz is 10W30. But my personal opinion would be to go for xxw40 oils for every Honda engine.. let the svc prescribe a w30. Why? Read here http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/833289-post5215.html

[fardeen]

Thanks for the detailed explanation provided by different members. Will be going ahead and replace the engine oil with Motul 3000 4T 20W40 pronto when I visit my hometown. The bike is hardly used around 5 kms in a week it is not as if it is kept for 3-4 months without being used.

My apologies if I had offended anyone. Please dont get me wrong I just wanted to clarify the 6 months replacement of the engine oil as mentioned in a number of post.

Also wanted to confirm should I purchase a litre of oil which should suffice and how much engine oil will be needed for a Bajaj Disco 100 cc.

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[Pinaki]

As per the first post by sandeep_k_ram the multi grade engine oil becomes thicker and heavier with increase in temperature....
So why is it advised to take the bike for a short run and heat up the engine before draining the oil? wont it be difficult for the oil to flow freely and come out when it would be hot.??

Oil viscosity grades , as applied to automobile engine lubrication is not equivalent to oil thickness as we generally understand it .
Engine oil , like all other oils and liquids becomes thinner when heated , so that it easily drains out . Obviously then , it even flows free when hot ... hence that advice .

[prajnyan]

There is a misconception amongst everyone as to why Honda uses its oil and voids warranty if you dont use 10w30 oils in their motorcycles.

Here is the answere:

What Pinakiji does is what everyone who is not using the Honda 10w30 oil should do.. Use 20W40!

I knew the things I am highlighting here from quite sometime.. but was trying to start a completely new thread with the information as that will be buried in this post in this engine oil section, which people visit rarely.. but couldnt find the time to start off a new thread.. so for benefit of all.. typing it here.

In May, last month, someone asked engine oil for Honda and this was my reply:

http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/812015-post4986.html

http://www.world.honda.com/environment/report/download/2010/2010_reportdata_E_05.pdf

Oil experts(like pinakiji) and people having the know-how of oils are using 20w40 by choice without worrying about the warranties.. The risk taken is an intelligent one!!

Good Day Ahead.

Actually, I went through the document, and there is no mention of an Honda OIL. Nor does it state that the oil can beat the characteristics of 20w40. Clearly a company cannot create monopoly by manufacture of Honda 10w30 oil and compulsory use of it, this would open up billion dollar law suits, coz I dont see how any other branded equally competent 10w30 should kill an engine!

Honda has clearly recommend the JASO MA graded 10w30 which manufactured by any other company should be good enough for any and all Honda vehicles.

NOTE: Just like development is seen in technology, the engine oils too have undergone refinement, and Some SA grade oil is not the same as API SL or SJ. What I know is that JASO-MA and JASO-FC, are designed to address oil-requirement issues not addressed by the API service categories. So an JASO MA specifically addresses such issues pertaining to wet clutch engine oil type requirement.

[muztariq]

Actually, I went through the document, and there is no mention of an Honda OIL. Nor does it state that the oil can beat the characteristics of 20w40. Clearly a company cannot create monopoly by manufacture of Honda 10w30 oil and compulsory use of it, this would open up billion dollar law suits, coz I dont see how any other branded equally competent 10w30 should kill an engine!

Honda has clearly recommend the JASO MA graded 10w30 which manufactured by any other company should be good enough for any and all Honda vehicles.

NOTE: Just like development is seen in technology, the engine oils too have undergone refinement, and Some SA grade oil is not the same as API SL or SJ. What I know is that JASO-MA and JASO-FC, are designed to address oil-requirement issues not addressed by the API service categories. So an JASO MA specifically addresses such issues pertaining to wet clutch engine oil type requirement.

I dont see a equally efficient branded engine oil is tested by Honda. By the line kill the engine.. i dont mean it will die the moment you put the oil in.. slow poison you see

Sometime back similar discussions happened somewhere else in this big world.
Low viscosity oil for all Honda bike since 2006 - Bob Is The Oil Guy

To conclude I can say, if you are running in the hot envt like India, you are better off using a standard 20W40. If you insist on using a 10W30.. use oil which are HMEOC Approved. Just Jaso approval of 10W30 is not sufficient in conditions which we encounter here.

An example - Evolution Moto 10W-30 is registered not only with JASO but also with HMEOC which is new board managed by SAE Asia to ensure the newer generation lighter viscosity oils properly protect motorcycle engines, clutches, and gears

Cut copy pasted from here - http://wiki.uiowa.edu/display/csseng...+of+MA2+and+MA.

Sometime back there was a discussion on Gulf 10w30 synthetic oil and Valvoline 10W30 synthetic technology oil which meets these specifications in addition to Honda oil. Try them instead if you want max protection from a 10W30 oil and dont want to use 20W40 instead.

For guys, who are interested in further reading:
A Quote from SAE. The mother of Engine oil grades we use today:
Study of Lower Viscosity Motorcycle Engine Oils for Fuel Saving

As well as a four-wheeled vehicle, in the field of motorcycle, development of the CO 2 reduction technology and practical use are required for global environment protection. Therefore the energy conserving by engine oil is required. There are several technologies which have been applied to the passenger car engine oils using lower viscosity base oils and some friction modifier additives.
However, these technologies might bring difficulties or problems to apply to the motorcycle engine oils. Since motorcycles normally have transmission gears and a wet clutch system inside the crankcase, the gear lubricity and clutch friction performance are additionally required for motorcycle engine oils.
Motorcycle engine oils are also used under severer conditions than passenger car engine oils. Therefore, lower volatility performance at higher temperature conditions, higher shear stability, anti-wear performance and gear pitting toughness are needed.
In this study, we report the results of motorcycle engine oil performance evaluation with engine oils containing high quality mineral base oils and specially selected polymers. The high quality base oil contributed to reduce oil consumption, compared with the current 10W-30 grade motorcycle engine oil. The moderate selection of polymers can increase oil film thickness and also improve shear stability. Additionally, actual motorcycle engine test was conducted. The candidate oil showed better fuel saving and better effect for gear fatigue and noise prevention.


If someone gets the full paper, please share.

[Honda_CBF]

Motul anyday.. Though the recommendation for a cbz is 10W30. But my personal opinion would be to go for xxw40 oils for every Honda engine.. let the svc prescribe a w30. Why? Read here http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/833289-post5215.html

HH cbz star (not xtream) needs and is recommended for xxW40.

[muztariq]

HH cbz star (not xtream) needs and is recommended for xxW40.

but where would you fill it when svc has 10w30 stock from splendour 97 to cbr 250.

[gallifrey]

Just tell them not to change the oil.let them drain it.you take the oil you want to fill while taking delivery after service and ask them to fill it up.that's what I do.

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[muztariq]

Just tell them not to change the oil.let them drain it.you take the oil you want to fill while taking delivery after service and ask them to fill it up.that's what I do.

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what i meant was - svc is filling 10w30 in all honda engines whether old or new.. Recommendations have changed.

[gallifrey]

what i meant was - svc is filling 10w30 in all honda engines whether old or new.. Recommendations have changed.

Yes, recommendations have changed but in my experience in the hot summer of Chennai this year,I can say that 10w30 is completely useless. Engine over heating was a big problem, even over short distances. Shifted to shell ax7 10w40 ss and the difference was amazing.one could even try 20w40 in the summer and 10w40 in winter/monsoons

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[Honda_CBF]

Just tell them not to change the oil.let them drain it.you take the oil you want to fill while taking delivery after service and ask them to fill it up.that's what I do.

ya this can be done if warranty is not the issue, because its already expired.

but where would you fill it when svc has 10w30 stock from splendour 97 to cbr 250.

outside svc.

[sunilyo]

Just tell them not to change the oil.let them drain it.you take the oil you want to fill while taking delivery after service and ask them to fill it up.that's what I do.

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Do SVC people allow to bring our own engine oil?

[Honda_CBF]

Do SVC people allow to bring our own engine oil?

some do some dont. In your case they should allow, as bike's not under warranty. Even if they dont allow, you can always get your own brand oil outside svc.

[gallifrey]

Do SVC people allow to bring our own engine oil?

I have got it changed here in Chennai.they let you bring it.even otherwise, just tell them not to change the oil.you can take delivery of the bike and get it changed from some road side mechanic or you can do it yourself.at least that's what I have been doing.

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[Pinaki]

Yes, recommendations have changed but in my experience in the hot summer of Chennai this year,I can say that 10w30 is completely useless. Engine over heating was a big problem, even over short distances. Shifted to shell ax7 10w40 ss and the difference was amazing.one could even try 20w40 in the summer and 10w40 in winter/monsoons

Yes , that was also my observation . In barely 30kms of a continuous run in summer noon, the heat I would feel on my legs would be so much that once I stopped and did a "spit-test" on the cooling fins of the barrel and head . The water drops vaporised instantaneously without touching the fins really . I have seen this condition many times in my riding life , before I had trouble . So I switched to 20w40 as soon as I could and now using it on both my HeroHonda bikes, despite what they say . I read up all the theory after that .
Other than the heat , there was excessive engine noise & roughness and clunky gear-shifts . In my opinion, noisy-engine = much-friction = poor-lubrication = mucho wear .