Engine Oils

[Pinaki]

Sir, Gt250R has oil change interval every 3k kms. Once i asked for that when i went to Hyosung showroom to have a detailed view of the Hyosung Gt-250R.

Yes , that is the correct change-interval for motorcycle oil given by all before extended-drain became fashionable . 3000 kms or six months , whichever comes earlier for normal use .

.. Incase of any genuine oil (company specific) for any auto manufacturer, the oil has been tested physically under various conditions by the auto manufacturer. The oil is drained at specific intervals, and then the drained oil is tested for various factors like oxidation, nitration, NOACK and other things. Incase, the oil is within limits, they continue to test the oil again for a certain period and do the sampling again. Once after testing the samples, when the limits of the oil are nearing or exhausted, they count the total KM's run and provide a buffer, then they claim that this oil can run this many KM's.

The company specific oils are different than the market general oils.

My friend owns a Volkswagen Jetta, the first oil change is at 25000 kms. Thats because, its a company specific oil for that car and can do that many kms. ...

The branded oil's sold by the bike makers is bottled by some oil company and is not radically different from oils available in the market . It may just be made to order specs . There is no way the drain interval of oil be magically extended just because it has been branded by the bike manufacturer . Oil companies conduct the same tests for the oils they market directly . They use the same base oils and the same additive technology , that has been evolved by the oil companies . In fact the largest oil research and test facilities belongs to the oil refiners . Engine manufacturers use their facilities to test the engine with various oils .

Drain interval of car oils is not relevant to motorcycle engines , since car oils are not stressed as much and do not have to perform half as many functions .

.. Hero recommends that, because they have tested the same oil at various parameters and levels. Same goes for Bajaj also.
Also, no oil will feel good once it surpasses certain limits. The claims by companies always have some buffer to it. If they claim 3000kms, the same oil is tested almost certain kms or so.
API does the licensing work for any company to claim API SG/SL/SM or whatsover. All the API categories have a set of engine tests, each oil has to pass these tests to claim any API level. Once API license any company's oil for any level. API gives the license, but the company can also claim API SL @ 3000kms (thats the no. Of KMS run during the test). Marketing gimmick you see
Cheerz!!

As I said , I have my doubts about what testing they do and how .. to arrive at those 6000-10000 kms claims .

Be less worried about API rating (claims) of oils because I can say for sure that none of the oils you have/are using on your motorcycle has been really tested or certified by API at all .
If it had passed all the rigorous API (American Petroleum Institute) tests and were duely certified , your oil bottle label would bear a true API donut badge like this ... check it .



Beware of the fake API-like badge used on some oil bottles too ...



What motorcycle oils should have is this symbol or badge with the certification number , rather than API . Not all oils have this even .... and fake / like symbols are not unknown of this one too .



Mere claim or mention of an API or JASO rating , grade or conformance amounts to just that - a mere claim . Very few companies in India actually sent their oils to the American or Japanese certification laboratories to pass the tests and obtain certificates (including a few of motul's oils) . Maybe they are confident that indians shall not be able to read it .

Can anyone check a bottle of Bajaj's 10000Dtsi oil and tell me if that bears these API / JASO badges and certification numbers ?

Bros, a lil question.
What should be the drain interval of ELF MOTO-4 XT TECH 10-50 fully synthetic oil??
When used in fz16?
80% city riding, 20% highway riding.

By me , a maximum of 3000kms or six months , whichever comes earlier .

I changed my sprockets to 14T-43T where as original were 15T-42T. so 80+ in 4th gear is definitely stressful for the engine.

Then you should use an oil that can take such stress and be careful to change it early , rather than late . nahi ?

[vaibhav93]

hello friends can you throw a light on this engine oil I am planning to use it. Going to change it tom.
Hence please give your feed backs for this oil.
Vehicle is honda cb unicorn.

Dude blindly go for this oil .. I used this oil till 500kms to 42,358KMS (CB unicorn dazzler) without any problem drain interval 3,500 to 4,000kms..
Highly recommended oil please go for it best oil for honda unicorn trust me :-)

[NIGHTMARE]

Dude blindly go for this oil .. I used this oil till 500kms to 42,358KMS (CB unicorn dazzler) without any problem drain interval 3,500 to 4,000kms..
Highly recommended oil please go for it best oil for honda unicorn trust me :-)

Good diesel oil for karizma

[Pinaki]

.... hello friends can you throw a light on this engine oil I am planning to use it. Going to change it tom.
Hence please give your feed backs for this oil ... Vehicle is honda cb unicorn.

Can anyone please confirm if the Shell Advance series AX3/AX5/AX7 and Ultra oil bottles have the JASO certification symbol and number on them ? Front or back ?

[muztariq]

No, they doesnt. There is space constraints on the label

[mayank.travadi]

Motul 3000 15W50 has JASo-MA2 mark..but no API mark

what is more important?

the pack mentions is complies to API...but no symbol

[abhimanyu31]

Motul 3000 15W50 has JASo-MA2 mark..but no API mark

what is more important?

the pack mentions is complies to API...but no symbol

[ATTACH=CONFIG]98628[/ATTACH]

When it says that it complies to a relevant API standard then it means that the company manufacturing and marketing the oil is guaranteeing the performance of the oil to the claimed standard. If the API donut seal is present on the label then API is guaranteeing the said standard. Most oil makers DO NOT go for API certification as API charges a royalty for use of the donut seal and guaranteeing the performance of the oil. Mostly small oil makers in Europe and USA such as Bel Ray make use of the API donut as it helps them market their products against giants like Motul, Castrol, Mobil, etc.

[muztariq]

Consider any two oils selling in the US and here.. The US oil would mandatorily have the API logo whereas the Indian made would not.

Its not about marketing strategy.. Its clearly compliance!! Most of the oils here do not comply, as to comply you need to apply for compliance and these oils do not apply in the first place.

Example: Here is the US/Indian versions of same oil. See the API logo in the US version. In Indian version is nowhere to be found. And yes, this is the giant you were talking about. Its mandatorily on every oil in the US from a giant or a novice company.

Also note.. Its API SM/SL oil in the US but SJ in India. Clearly, the oil is substandard in comparison to US supplies. And to top it all, its claimed SJ and not approved!

[abhimanyu31]

Consider any two oils selling in the US and here.. The US oil would mandatorily have the API logo whereas the Indian made would not.

Its not about marketing strategy.. Its clearly compliance!! Most of the oils here do not comply, as to comply you need to apply for compliance and these oils do not apply in the first place.
!

Is it your assumption that API logo is mandatory or that you KNOW as a fact?

Please go through the following before making an assumption . http://www.api.org/certification-pro...tionfinal.ashx API Donut is a voluntary and royalty based system.

Also do go through sport rider magazine's excellent article on oil, where in a great explanation is given on the standards and their method of operation is given http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0308_oil/

[muztariq]

Thanks for providing me with the long document whose previous versions I had gone through several times in two - three years time frame.

There are only two ways through which you can show the license the donut sign or the round one mentioned in the document. There is no other way of doing it. Writing meets or exceeds API S.. requirements does not make the oil API approved.

I didnt say its is mandatory for every oil to get API certification. I just said if the oil is API approved you have to show it in a particular fashion on the label. Its mandatory to display the logo in a particular fashion. And if you fail to do so, its not licensed. Clearly, many of the Indian oils are not 'licensed' or may I use 'approved' by API.

[abhimanyu31]

Its not about marketing strategy.. Its clearly compliance!!
...... Its mandatorily on every oil in the US from a giant or a novice company.
!

Please clarify the above statement. Are you trying to say that every oil sold in U.S has to have the donut seal? If yes, under what law is it mandatory?

[Pinaki]

No , API or JASO certification is not mandatory , either in India or USA or anywhere else . But all bike manufacturers in India usually make it mandatory to use a JASO MA certified (at least) oil in their engines . Otherwise they have right to void the engine warranty . So it becomes mandatory for us indirectly .

No, they doesnt. There is space constraints on the label

That is what I suspected . Shell India's entire advance range of motorcycle oils are not JASO certified . Never recall seeing JASO MA or MA2 badges on labels of AX3 , AX5, AX7 or Ultra .

Motul 3000 15W50 has JASo-MA2 mark..but no API mark
what is more important? the pack mentions is complies to API...but no symbol ....

It means that Motul 3000 4T Plus has been tested and certified by JASO to pass all the MA2 level tests with flying colours , while it has not been actually tested by API for conformance to the SL moniker , but the manufacturer (motul) thinks it would pass the API SL grade tests too .
For motorcycle oils , only the JASO MA certification is relevant , not API . JASO MA means it has been tested for wet clutch operation , which our motorcycles need . API does not differentiate between wet-clutch(motorcycle use) and other(Car) oils .

When it says that it complies to a relevant API standard then it means that the company manufacturing and marketing the oil is guaranteeing the performance of the oil to the claimed standard. If the API donut seal is present on the label then API is guaranteeing the said standard. Most oil makers DO NOT go for API certification as API charges a royalty for use of the donut seal and guaranteeing the performance of the oil. Mostly small oil makers in Europe and USA such as Bel Ray make use of the API donut as it helps them market their products against giants like Motul, Castrol, Mobil, etc.

Yes , but I feel it is plain and simple cheating to mention that you conform to a certain test and certificate while you have never even appeared for the test . No ?
The royalty fee is very small and cannot be the reason for not appearing for JASO or API tests . The trend is not confined to the smaller companies either . Castrol and Motul too have many NON- API/JASO oils in their product lineup in India . The only reason for not appearing for the tests is because they know that owing to some shortcoming in the product , it is unlikely to pass the stringent JASO or API tests . Or maybe they think we consumers are dumb enough for them to get away with such clever play of words . I have no confidence on a manufacturer certifying it's own product to conform to a certain independent standard .
Such guarantees have no practical value either . Think of the enormous hassle you'd have to go through to prove that damage has occured in your engine owing to use of such non-comformant oil only , in exclusion to any other defect and obtain compensation from the oil company here .

[muztariq]

Mostly small oil makers in Europe and USA such as Bel Ray make use of the API donut as it helps them market their products against giants like Motul, Castrol, Mobil, etc.

You said its only small oil companies that make use of API logo and not the giants. To which I replied its mandatory for small or big companies to display the logo and its not related to marketing

And yes, this is the giant you were talking about. Its mandatorily on every oil in the US from a giant or a novice company.

What I dint mean was that each and every oil in US should go for API certification. Any certification whether JASO or API is optional and oil companies may not comply with it. But if you are claiming compliance, you will have to show it on the label.

There are many other standards like Mercedes Benz 229.5 etc , Volkswagen 505.00 etc, BMW LL-01 etc which are designed by Motor vehicle manufacturers to ensure that those oils meet their specific requirements. These may or may not apply for API certification.

I have a cooking oil and I label it ‘meets or exceeds API SL requirements’. There is no way to ensure whether it does or not apart from testing it. Some oil company to prove my oil is inferior can run ASTM tests and make the results public so that you may not use my oil. Clearly, the oil is not API compliant.

Consider I label ‘meets or exceeds ISI requirements’ on an electrical equipment. And do not use the ISI logo (Indian Standards Institute logo). Does that mean my equipment is ISI compliant. It may be, but it’s not certified by the ISI!

[abhimanyu31]

The word 'mandatory' in legal terms means compulsory compliance. And compulsory compliance can only be done under a law. API is not a statutory body. It has no legal force or powers.

Now coming to my statement about API donut use by big giants, I stand by it. By your very own example you have show that the same oil by the same company does not have the donut seal when marketed world over. Reason (I once again point out), is royalty. For every donut put on the label, the companies need to pay a royalty.

Therefore, while the company claims that it is API standard compliant and does not have the donut seal, then the company is guaranteeing the oil. The liability of guaranteeing is theirs and theirs alone. If the company submits the oil to API and passes a certain standard (expensive process of getting certified), it will get certified after the specified tests are passed. However, the company can still choose not to put the donut (Not mandatory). To put the donut it will need to pay a royalty per donut and API will conduct periodic checks on the oil that has been certified by doing an audit of the quality control and manufacturing processes and spot testing independently by collecting oil samples from the market.

I will also stand by the marketing part. Most companies use the donut as a passive marketing tool. Since it is not compulsory, why else would I put it on my product unless it is something that will entice you to pick it up over any oil oil brand. It is clearly a marketing tool.

[muztariq]

API can take legal actions against offenders using its logo

API sues cheaters - Bob Is The Oil Guy