Engine Oils

[Honda_CBF]

^^ yes sir I totally agree with you on both the points..
All bikes has oil filters.
And me too have observed Honda oem 20w40 oil & it looked thinner than other brands of 20w40 oil namely elf and gulf.
Thanks again

[ashwinprakas]

AFAIK Ashwin , your Kari(ZMA) has two ! Similar to the splendor/passion/CD and many other Honda made engines of that era. The first is a simple squarish oil-strainer in the circulation path . It shall stop stray nuts & bolts and metal etc bits from moving back into the engine's oil circulation . Second one is a centrifugal filter , integral with the clutch basket or next to it ... I think (haven't taken mine apart to see yet) .
Centrifugal filters are a brilliant & effective device, and according to me supercedes all the disposable-media filters we see in other bikes . This is because they do not depend on particle size to filter it . Pass-through media filters will stop only upto particles of a certain size . They cannot be made to stop very very small particle , cause then the pores will be so small as to pose significant slowdown of the oil passage too . Moreover they shall get clogged as more and more debris is collected with time, and must be disposed off for a new one. A centrifugal filter,on the other hand will arrest any particle that is heavier than the oil (which is almost anything I can think of) , irrespective of size or material, won't clog up or slowdown the oil circulation until the collected dirts volume exceeds it's capacity , and can be just cleaned off with petrol (no replacement cost) .
Only downside is that with the kari's engine (or splendor's) , you have to open the clutch-side engine case to access both these filters . Mechanics and service centers are reluctant to do this , and so many of these engines pass their entire life without oil filter cleaning . Amazingly they keep working just fine apparently and most owners don't even know about their presence although the owner's manuals specifies cleaning at the first-second service only . I think , this is a good testimony to their simplicity and effectiveness in use .
This is the cenrifugal filter in an old 125cc honda engine (source - www.dansmc.com/change_oil.htm) . Notice the crud along the edge of the round disc ..

Wow, didnt know that. All this while was thinking that the oil filters used in FZ etc were more efficient. And the SVC here cleaned mine during the 1st service. Nice people, thought they have'nt touched it ever since.

I've observed (not read anywhere) , is that some 20w40 oils appear thicker than other 20w40 while pouring etc . But then by the manufacturer's testing two 20w40 oils can't be different SAE viscosity grades , no ? So visual appearance of being thicker may not be an accurate indicator of it's SAE viscosity grade too , I think .

Gulf Pride 4T Plus 20W40 is way thicker than Honda 20W40.

[Pinaki]

Wow, didnt know that. All this while was thinking that the oil filters used in FZ etc were more efficient. And the SVC here cleaned mine during the 1st service. Nice people, thought they have'nt touched it ever since. ..

Ashwin'jee, you have good people there at your HeroHonda service , unlike mine ... It's ok , you need not clean that centrifugal oil filter often .. as I said, many of these honda engines pass their entire life without one such service and no problems too ! btw , how much crud did you actually find in there ? I need to find a guy here to help me clean mine ... never been done yet on my 10k kms splendor . I've already bought the clutch side gasket in preparation . Moreover if you change the engine oil regularly (drain while hot) @ 2000kms max, keep your air-filter clean/replaced early and stick to good petrol from known reliable pumps ,there won't be much dirt collecting in the engine anyway , I think .

Gulf Pride 4T Plus 20W40 is way thicker than Honda 20W40.

Ok , SO you guys have noticed it too .

[ashwinprakas]

Ashwin'jee, you have good people there at your HeroHonda service , unlike mine ... It's ok , you need not clean that centrifugal oil filter often .. as I said, many of these honda engines pass their entire life without one such service and no problems too ! btw , how much crud did you actually find in there ? I need to find a guy here to help me clean mine ... never been done yet on my 10k kms splendor . I've already bought the clutch side gasket in preparation . Moreover if you change the engine oil regularly (drain while hot) @ 2000kms max, keep your air-filter clean/replaced early and stick to good petrol from known reliable pumps ,there won't be much dirt collecting in the engine anyway , I think .

Now here's the shocking part, NONE!!!.

It was clean and when I enquired about them opening up the crank case cover they said its usual procedure, even Vaishak bro had his cleaned during 1st or 2nd service. Different SVC's refer to it with different names, at the time Vaishak bro had his cleaned he said they've opened up his crank case to clean the Rotor Filter and I was abit puzzled, only when psr sir explained they were the same thing I understood what they'd done on my ride.

And IIRC according to psr sir, this should be cleaned only at the 25~30K mark.

Ok , SO you guys have noticed it too .

Yup, and thats the same reason I doubted(and still do) the use of Gulf Pride 4T Plus in my ZMA. Speaking about that, I'm currently running on the same and its been about 2.5K Kms and surprisingly the oil's still red in colour when I checked it yesterday.

[Nigen]

Yup, and thats the same reason I doubted(and still do) the use of Gulf Pride 4T Plus in my ZMA. Speaking about that, I'm currently running on the same and its been about 2.5K Kms and surprisingly the oil's still red in colour when I checked it yesterday.

Just a word of caution, when I used Gulf Pride 4t plus in my bike & when I checked the oil level after 200kms of riding, the oil was way way lower. I then had to drain it & poured another oil again. Now its been more than 1000kms with the new oil & it hasn't gone down.

I'm still wondering why my bike drank so much amount of Gulf Pride 4t plus oil. The oil was not burnt & neither there were any oil leaks & yeah when I used Gulf pride 4t plus my bike's gear was lot more harsh & there was a change in the engine sound. I'm yet to ascertain why Gulf din't work out well with my bike whereas I have heard good results from others.

[Cursed4Eva]

Guys any recommendation of Engine Oil for the 1k service for Ninja 250R? Also what about P220 (well used 4.5 years 23k) what oil would you recommend?

Thanks in advance

[ashwinprakas]

Just a word of caution, when I used Gulf Pride 4t plus in my bike & when I checked the oil level after 200kms of riding, the oil was way way lower. I then had to drain it & poured another oil again. Now its been more than 1000kms with the new oil & it hasn't gone down.

I'm still wondering why my bike drank so much amount of Gulf Pride 4t plus oil. The oil was not burnt & neither there were any oil leaks & yeah when I used Gulf pride 4t plus my bike's gear was lot more harsh & there was a change in the engine sound. I'm yet to ascertain why Gulf din't work out well with my bike whereas I have heard good results from others.

Which bike are you using???

And yeah GULF behaves differently with different bikes. And actually last time I filled 1Liter instead of 900 ML, some of the oil was blown out into the filter box and yesterday when I checked the level was a bit above the maximum point. And all this after running for 2.5k Kms.

The hard transmission doesnt happen all at once, will start only when the oil gets run in.

[Vishakh]

Which bike are you using???

And yeah GULF behaves differently with different bikes. And actually last time I filled 1Liter instead of 900 ML, some of the oil was blown out into the filter box and yesterday when I checked the level was a bit above the maximum point. And all this after running for 2.5k Kms.

The hard transmission doesnt happen all at once, will start only when the oil gets run in.

In the first 100 kms after changing oil I too felt the shifts were harder but then it was smooth and silent . This was when I used 20w 40 from gulf. During my previous service the SVC guys changed my oil to 10w 30 HH oil and then too in the beginning the shifts where hard but after some 35 kms it vanished .

And about vanishing of oil I too have faced the same ( My bike is only 6k kms old). I had to fill several tumblers of oil( sorry don't know the exact amount) to make it to correct level but thereafter no problem. Well thats what is called top up I know . But seems like that was one hell of a top up .

[siddhesh]

Yup, and thats the same reason I doubted(and still do) the use of Gulf Pride 4T Plus in my ZMA. Speaking about that, I'm currently running on the same and its been about 2.5K Kms and surprisingly the oil's still red in colour when I checked it yesterday.

today i changed my bike's oil which was gulf pride 4t+ 20w40.and still the oil was red in colour..i had run almost 2.5k with it.but my gear shift wer hard during downshifts..and bike felt sluggeshed and lazy in pick up bt nw changed to honda 20w40.gt it for 225rs/l.nw gear shifts are smooth and bike has pick up just like wir hh10w30.

[ashwinprakas]

today i changed my bike's oil which was gulf pride 4t+ 20w40.and still the oil was red in colour..i had run almost 2.5k with it.but my gear shift wer hard during downshifts..and bike felt sluggeshed and lazy in pick up bt nw changed to honda 20w40.gt it for 225rs/l.nw gear shifts are smooth and bike has pick up just like wir hh10w30.

Same here, the oil's still red, but the quality of downshifts have deteriorated. Today crossed the 7.5k mark, so that means am up for 4th service, will convince the SVC guys to change the oil to Honda 20W40, and see what'll happen after that.

And bro what you pointed out is an exact fact the Hero Honda 10W30 appears to have the same viscosity as the Honda 20W40 when spread on our fingers. Anyways lets wait and watch.

@ Vaishak.
For how long do you keep the oil to have noticed drop in oil levels???

[Pinaki]

Now here's the shocking part, NONE!!!.
It was clean and when I enquired about them opening up the crank case cover they said its usual procedure, even Vaishak bro had his cleaned during 1st or 2nd service. Different SVC's refer to it with different names, at the time Vaishak bro had his cleaned he said they've opened up his crank case to clean the Rotor Filter and I was abit puzzled, only when psr sir explained they were the same thing I understood what they'd done on my ride.
And IIRC according to psr sir, this should be cleaned only at the 25~30K mark.

Then I'm gonna wait until 30k to open the case on this new bike on psr's word and your experience .

Just a word of caution, when I used Gulf Pride 4t plus in my bike & when I checked the oil level after 200kms of riding, the oil was way way lower. I then had to drain it & poured another oil again. Now its been more than 1000kms with the new oil & it hasn't gone down.
I'm still wondering why my bike drank so much amount of Gulf Pride 4t plus oil. The oil was not burnt & neither there were any oil leaks & yeah when I used Gulf pride 4t plus my bike's gear was lot more harsh & there was a change in the engine sound. I'm yet to ascertain why Gulf din't work out well with my bike whereas I have heard good results from others.

...And about vanishing of oil I too have faced the same ( My bike is only 6k kms old). I had to fill several tumblers of oil( sorry don't know the exact amount) to make it to correct level but thereafter no problem. Well thats what is called top up I know . But seems like that was one hell of a top up .

One possibility I can think of is that you guys didn't measure the level correctly while refilling ? After draining the sump and filling with fresh oil, you have to run the bike for some time , then put it on main-stand in a flat place, wait for ten mins , then check the level again with dipstick - thrice , without screwing it in . If you just fill to max mark on dipstick and ride on , the level will be less after your ride . I usually check the level a day after a fresh fill, again ... and make it to max mark on dipstick if less . The surprising thing with my newish(10k kms) splendor+ is that it never drank even one drop of oil up to now . That means never ; be it 10w30 or 20w40 , level remains exact same until I drain at about 2000 kms(max) . Never had to top up , so much so that nowadays after that one check a day after .. I've given up checking the oil level on this bike anymore until I drain it .

Guys any recommendation of Engine Oil for the 1k service for Ninja 250R? Also what about P220 (well used 4.5 years 23k) what oil would you recommend?..

Valvoline 4T premium 20w50 .

... And actually last time I filled 1Liter instead of 900 ML, some of the oil was blown out into the filter box and ...

Yeah , that's the good thing to happen to release the excess oil pressure in the crankcase from overfilling, no harm done . Way better than blowing a gasket .

In the first 100 kms after changing oil I too felt the shifts were harder but then it was smooth and silent . This was when I used 20w 40 from gulf. During my previous service the SVC guys changed my oil to 10w 30 HH oil and then too in the beginning the shifts where hard but after some 35 kms it vanished .

today i changed my bike's oil which was gulf pride 4t+ 20w40.and still the oil was red in colour..i had run almost 2.5k with it.but my gear shift wer hard during downshifts..and bike felt sluggeshed and lazy in pick up bt nw changed to honda 20w40.gt it for 225rs/l.nw gear shifts are smooth and bike has pick up just like wir hh10w30.

Same here, the oil's still red, but the quality of downshifts have deteriorated. Today crossed the 7.5k mark, so that means am up for 4th service, will convince the SVC guys to change the oil to Honda 20W40, and see what'll happen after that.

Are they using too much red dye in it by any chance ? ... unlikely for any oil to remain clean and good beyond 2000 kms in our conditions . Ignore the colour and drop the oil IMHO . Please do report your experience with the Honda 20w40 , I saw the white bottle at my oil shop and am wanting to try it in march .

[chetanchandu2000]

Hi , I'm riding an RTR 160, with 30K on odo, till date i was using TVS mineral oil for first 15k kms and then to AGIP semi synthetic oil.
now can i use fully synthetic oil , one of my buddy says fully synthetic oil causes gear slip and is not good for 160cc bikes bit confused.

Can anyone throw some light on using fully synthetic and semi synthetic. ??

[Honda_CBF]

Hi , I'm riding an RTR 160, with 30K on odo, till date i was using TVS mineral oil for first 15k kms and then to AGIP semi synthetic oil.
now can i use fully synthetic oil , one of my buddy says fully synthetic oil causes gear slip and is not good for 160cc bikes bit confused.

Can anyone throw some light on using fully synthetic and semi synthetic. ??

no oil makes gears to slip not even car FS engine oils. If gear(s) slip then there may be any mechanical fault..
He may be refering to clutch slip i guess..
Even if this is the case JASO MA oil must not cause clutch slip, but clutch plates should be in good condition.

[shoeb2015]

Then I'm gonna wait until 30k to open the case on this new bike on psr's word and your experience .

The surprising thing with my newish(10k kms) splendor+ is that it never drank even one drop of oil up to now.That means never ; be it 10w30 or 20w40 , level remains exact same until I drain at about 2000 kms(max) . Never had to top up , so much so that nowadays after that one check a day after .. I've given up checking the oil level on this bike anymore until I drain it .

Same is the case with my dad's splendor too,After seeing this bike I have forgotten the word TOP-UP and I did not top-up even once in last 7yrs but I check the oil level daily, perform some basic checkups and take it for a small spin(0.5km)saying that I am warming up your bike: and also because I dont take any risk because it is driven by my Dad.

Avg temp in Hyderabad is 20c in winters,35-40c in summers.
BTW,I am using Elf moto gold 20w40.

I get easily scared by scalding hot engines on lonely highways . So I'll dump it for 20w40 until next winter again .

Hot engine make me scary as-well because engine becomes very harsh,pickup reduces dramatically and feels like there is not even a single drop of oil in it..

[chetanchandu2000]

no oil makes gears to slip not even car FS engine oils. If gear(s) slip then there may be any mechanical fault..
He may be refering to clutch slip i guess..
Even if this is the case JASO MA oil must not cause clutch slip, but clutch plates should be in good condition.

so i can go for fully synthetic oil, the main reason i'm going to full synthetic oil is i can run 4-5k kms without changing oil and also planning for Leh, so thought of going for AGIP or valvoline full synthetic oil.