Engine Oils

[ashwinprakas]

difference between 2t & 4t?? I dont believe that. They sell oil with the packaging right? Why color code?
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Sudden color change that too from red to yellow (or natural) is good i guess (afterall color dont lubricate)

To consumers oil's are sold with packing, but sometimes in bulk they are sold loosely, cause I remember Daine(ZMA Owner, TVM Xbhpian) bro asking me whether he should buy Gulf Pride 4T Plus loosely from an outlet or rather get the bottled version.

Why bro? what is wrong with gulf? I haven't faced any problems rather than sluggishness and hard shifts for the first 100 km or so. But later on the shifts are smooth as butter and oil lasts upto 2-2.5k kms.

Thanks for the reply will try Honda showroom. Between I am a bit unpleasant about 10w 30 now. Its purely personal I hate when my bike vibrates at above 70kmph speeds .

No matter how passively we ride, our bikes normally ridden between 0~4K RPM, Right??? And hence there are no vibrations up and until this point, but as soon as we cross the 4k mark, the vibrations start to surface, and its a guaranteed phenomenon with any engine. But while using Gulf Pride 4T Plus we're not able to notice it.. Why??? Its cause the oil is heavier than required and is masking the vibes, i.e to put it in simple terms adding extra load.

OT.
Just by seeing the above bolded statement I can say with 100% confidence that you're average shifting point is precisely 4250RPM's, even though you might not notice it yourself.

Both are true, as many ppl reported behavior of gulf oil differs from one type of bike to another.

It actually differs from person to person.

Actually I have tried a little tilting during one oil change. Yeah we can drain a little more like you said a total of 1L . And the reason I asked the question is that because different companies may use different base materials to make oil and contents may vary slightly so if we mix oils with two different grades it may be harmful to engine if the oil break downs. Well to be frank I know my bike is not a super bike to care about it this much . But I am always eager to clarify my doubts .

I've seen this being done at local workshops, but not sure whether its recommended, Bike is put on side stand and the mech moves the Kicker Lever many times, until everything is cleared. Though when Aneesh bro tried it while doing an oil change, nothing noticeably happened, maybe cause he skipped the tilting part and did it in mainstand.

But the thing is we both ( Me and Aswin) have the same bike which was delivered on the same day . We both have same color Karizma R bikes

I got the 'Super Tourer Edition' with Crash Guard and DRL's.

Yeah , Honda is suddenly shifted to supplying 10w30 (jus like herohonda) at it's services in silver colour bottles of 800ml . Their 20w40 is available at the independent shop in kolkata where I buy my oils however .

Here the 10W30's are available in 1L bottles costing 235Rs.

You can freely mix all engine oils as long as they are for motorcycles , of all grades and mineral or synthetic . No known incompatibilities between them . So don't worry shifting from one grade to other , no problem .

Oops, didnt know about the synthetic part, then another doubt(might be stupid), if mixing oils even whether Mineral SS or FS is not an issue, then why do SVC guys always recommend to use Flush before doing the same.

+ A Million

[Honda_CBF]

but sometimes in bulk they are sold loosely,

didn't knew this

you're average shifting point is precisely 4250RPM's, even though you might not notice it yourself.

every engine has some amount of vibes at precisely some rpm. Nothing to worry about. And thicker oil absorbs vibes, it doesn't 'load' your engine, unless its been used in very cold climate. 20w40 can withstand temperatures from 0'c to 40'c without any problem, but can cause 'load' effect bellow 5'c.

I've seen this being done at local workshops, but not sure whether its recommended, Bike is put on side stand and the mech moves the Kicker Lever many times, until everything is cleared.

that kicker part is not recommended.
My bike manual also says to drain & pour 900ml, but i tilt and do the 1 liter oil change (but not exceeding the max mark at dip stick) no problem till date i.e. 20k kms & 20 months of ownership.

Here the 10W30's are available in 1L bottles costing 235Rs.

20w40 Honda oil is less than 200Rs. Can be purchased outside Honda showroom/svc.

Oops, didnt know about the synthetic part, then another doubt(might be stupid), if mixing oils even whether Mineral SS or FS is not an issue, then why do SVC guys always recommend to use Flush before doing the same.

dont mix in 50-50 ratio. That left over oil (100-200ml) inside the engine can be mixed, no problem.
Btw, we all change oil way earlier than the recommended (adds life to engine) so dont think about it too much.
And that flushing stuff is a money maker thing for them. I say, its unnecessary thing for all engines. Just keep changing oil at correct interval, no flush needed, never.

[ashwinprakas]

didn't knew this

Me too.

every engine has some amount of vibes at precisely some rpm. Nothing to worry about. And thicker oil absorbs vibes, it doesn't 'load' your engine, unless its been used in very cold climate. 20w40 can withstand temperatures from 0'c to 40'c without any problem, but can cause 'load' effect bellow 5'c.

Yup thats something that people refuse to accept. (Am talking abut Gulf alone not the whole 20W40 range) And while using Gulf all the vibe's throught the low and mid rev range are masked and the vibes at high rev range are exaggerated, along with a noticeable lag in acceleration and a change in engine note, and for some oil loss as much as 200ml.

I was already aware of the above and yet prefered it, the reason am now sporting a dislike is cause after using for a while the oil still remains without any colour loss even though there's a noticeable drop in performance.

20w40 Honda oil is less than 200Rs. Can be purchased outside Honda showroom/svc.

Lucky you. Are you talking about the one's available in black bottle with red cap??? Cause IIRC they were available some time back in local shops and costed about 190~200Rs.

[Honda_CBF]

@ Ashwin,
Can't say about the 200ml oil loss, no idea. Is it only happening with gulf?
No, its the Honda oil with red cap in white bottle.
Btw, I'm not at all lucky, my Honda bike doesn't like any Honda oil (or may be its me)
best mineral oil used by me (till now; actually I'm still hunting for best & affordable oil) is yamalube.
Me too dont like oil to stay red through out their life.
.
Currently using valvoline champion 4t 20w40. 1750km done, oil is still good in condition, no performance drop, no heating issues, slick gear changes, no level drop. But what I'm not liking is its still red. Its slightly dark not much. Its like dark blood.
EDIT: gulf & elf are thicker 20w40 oils i believe, because i also have found stiffer gear shifts and slow reving issues with them in December colds. But it doesn't last for more then 3-4 kms after cold starts.
Few time back while googling about engine oils i came to know about two kind of grades in 20w40 , i.e. Lighter and thicker in the same grade.

[Quad Master]

Hi guys i am trying to find a descent oil for my Karizma 2005 edition.

Its rated to use 20W40.

I am having very much difficulty in finding Gulf Pride 4T Plus 20W40,
Shell Advance AX5 20W40 and Petronas Sprinta 5000 (20W40) fully synthetic anywhere in shops close to where i stay.

Can anyone tell me where i can find them in mumbai.

Also suggest some good 20W40 alternatives , they have castrol, elf, mobil, motul availble but am not sureif they are good.

[ashwinprakas]

@ Ashwin,
Can't say about the 200ml oil loss, no idea. Is it only happening with gulf?

Dont know, I've never experienced anything of that sort, its better we ask Vaishak bro.

No, its the Honda oil with red cap in white bottle.

Have used them some time back when psr sir said he's also experimenting on the same, they cost 220Rs here. Unlike the black and red one's these are real hard to source and now its impossible since the SVC's also stopped providing them.

Btw, I'm not at all lucky, my Honda bike doesn't like any Honda oil (or may be its me)
best mineral oil used by me (till now; actually I'm still hunting for best & affordable oil) is yamalube.

Yamalube's real good, my friends(Fazer16) running on it. Good acceleration and even after long run's the bike doesnt seem to be sluggish at all.

Me too dont like oil to stay red through out their life.

Yup, its really misleading.

Currently using valvoline champion 4t 20w40. 1750km done, oil is still good in condition, no performance drop, no heating issues, slick gear changes, no level drop. But what I'm not liking is its still red. Its slightly dark not much. Its like dark blood.

Vampire Blood!!!(I'm a fan of a soap named Supernatural) Thats what Gulf looked liked when I drained it day before yesterday.

EDIT: gulf & elf are thicker 20w40 oils i believe, because i also have found stiffer gear shifts and slow reving issues with them in December colds. But it doesn't last for more then 3-4 kms after cold starts.

For me it lasts for about 10Kms or so, maybe cause I'm having a strange tropical climate, where no matter what season temp rises to 38~40 Degress Max.

Few time back while googling about engine oils i came to know about two kind of grades in 20w40 , i.e. Lighter and thicker in the same grade.

I came to know of the same when started swapping between different brands of oils.

Hi guys i am trying to find a descent oil for my Karizma 2005 edition.

Its rated to use 20W40.

I am having very much difficulty in finding Gulf Pride 4T Plus 20W40,
Shell Advance AX5 20W40 and Petronas Sprinta 5000 (20W40) fully synthetic anywhere in shops close to where i stay.

Can anyone tell me where i can find them in mumbai.

Also suggest some good 20W40 alternatives , they have castrol, elf, mobil, motul availble but am not sureif they are good.

Give Yamalube a try. Its the best bet you've got.

[Quad Master]

Re: Engine Oils

i managed to find gulf pride 4t plus 20w40 for 250rs and purchased one asap.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

[Honda_CBF]

Guys, yamalube is re-labeled motul. Even the container/can is same.
@ Quad master,
you said motul is available.. You can use it. and also, motul is slightly cheaper than yamalube, by some 20Rs I guess.

[Quad Master]

Guys, yamalube is re-labeled motul. Even the container/can is same.
@ Quad master,
you said motul is available.. You can use it. and also, motul is slightly cheaper than yamalube, by some 20Rs I guess.

But which motul there are so many to choose from, also is there any 20W40 oil variant in motul that is good for ZMA 2005.

[Pinaki]

Motul 3000 4T plus 20w40 (also comes in 10w30 and 15w50 grades) JASO MA2, API SL .
Yamalube 20w40 mineral comes in two variants , both JASO MA and API SG and SL respectively . Both are very good . SG variant is even cheaper .
Although yamalube is motul made and is in same bottle type , I felt they were spec'd differently , after using each . Slightly different colour too .Yamaha probably has motul make that oil tailored as per their own specifications .

[Honda_CBF]

Motul 3000 4T plus 20w40 (also comes in 10w30 and 15w50 grades) JASO MA2, API SL .

@ Quad master,
that's a good oil from mineral class. Motul 5100 is semi-synth oil available in 15w50 & 10w40 and motul 800 factory line is full-synth oil in 15w50 & 10w40. Choose your taste lucky guy..
Btw, both full & semi synth oils are expensive but great oils.

Yamalube 20w40 mineral comes in two variants , both JASO MA and API SG and SL respectively . Both are very good . SG variant is even cheaper .

what's the difference with SG, SH, SL?? i know additive package is different according to the changing norms but what's the ultimate outcome? What's best for which kind of application? (sorry for the oil war kinda question)

Although yamalube is motul made and is in same bottle type , I felt they were spec'd differently , after using each . Slightly different colour too .Yamaha probably has motul make that oil tailored as per their own specifications .

that's news to me. So which is better, yamalube or motul?
Btw, does yamalube provides any mineral oil in XXw50 grade?

[Quad Master]

I found Gulf Pride 4T Plus today morning after going through a lot of shop so purchased it asap.

I will definitely keep Motul in my mind for my next oil change.

Lets see how the Gulf works for now heard a lot of good things about it.

[Vishakh]

No matter how passively we ride, our bikes normally ridden between 0~4K RPM, Right??? And hence there are no vibrations up and until this point, but as soon as we cross the 4k mark, the vibrations start to surface, and its a guaranteed phenomenon with any engine. But while using Gulf Pride 4T Plus we're not able to notice it.. Why??? Its cause the oil is heavier than required and is masking the vibes, i.e to put it in simple terms adding extra load.

In single cylinder engines vibrations will be pronounced at some rpm no matter what we do. We have to accept it. They key point is to reduce it as much as possible without causing any side effects. Gulf oil is more viscous and during longer commutations it really is good as the oil doesn't lose its character at high engine temperature. The oil reduces vibrations and reduces oil seepage through rings and increases compression. But all this merits come with few demerits too like sluggishness and warm up time and loss of initial acceleration. And our bike is a 223 cc engine and older karizmas used 20w 40 so the adding extra load is completely negligible . There is no point in worrying about it.

Yup thats something that people refuse to accept. (Am talking abut Gulf alone not the whole 20W40 range) And while using Gulf all the vibe's throught the low and mid rev range are masked and the vibes at high rev range are exaggerated, along with a noticeable lag in acceleration and a change in engine note, and for some oil loss as much as 200ml.

I was already aware of the above and yet prefered it, the reason am now sporting a dislike is cause after using for a while the oil still remains without any colour loss even though there's a noticeable drop in performance.

The oil doesn't mask instead it reduces and absorbs the vibrations . And there is no heavy vibrations at high speed too . It performs well in the higher rev range also ( Well for me atleast ). And the engine is silent with a mild grunt exhaust note I love that . Like I said it comes at a price like loss in acceleration and all .

Dont know, I've never experienced anything of that sort, its better we ask Vaishak bro.

Yes it has happened to me . Well only one time though. I used to check my oil level before that oil change and there was no drop in oil level till I changed the oil. So when I changed oil that time I didn't bother to check the level because of my previous experience with 20w 40 gulf oil . And one day after some 1k kms after oil change I checked the oil and it never even touched my dip stick. Had to fill some 3-4 steel tumbler of oil ( half filled) to get the oil back to the maximum level. ( Sorry guys can't judge the exact amount but sure any day its far above 100 ml).

But one thing I feel is as Pinaki sir said maybe it wasn't up to level when I changed the oil since I didn't check it immediately after the oil change it might be a possibility.

Another possibility is the air pockets that develop during oil change. And since the oil is thick the air pockets only disappear after some 300 kms causing the drop in oil level. ( Its my theory might be stupid )

[Honda_CBF]

In single cylinder engines vibrations will be pronounced at some rpm no matter what we do. We have to accept it. They key point is to reduce it as much as possible without causing any side effects. Gulf oil is more viscous and during longer commutations it really is good as the oil doesn't lose its character at high engine temperature. The oil reduces vibrations and reduces oil seepage through rings and increases compression. But all this merits come with few demerits too like sluggishness and warm up time and loss of initial acceleration. And our bike is a 223 cc engine and older karizmas used 20w 40 so the adding extra load is completely negligible . There is no point in worrying about it.



The oil doesn't mask instead it reduces and absorbs the vibrations . And there is no heavy vibrations at high speed too . It performs well in the higher rev range also ( Well for me atleast ). And the engine is silent with a mild grunt exhaust note I love that . Like I said it comes at a price like loss in acceleration and all .



Yes it has happened to me . Well only one time though. I used to check my oil level before that oil change and there was no drop in oil level till I changed the oil. So when I changed oil that time I didn't bother to check the level because of my previous experience with 20w 40 gulf oil . And one day after some 1k kms after oil change I checked the oil and it never even touched my dip stick. Had to fill some 3-4 steel tumbler of oil ( half filled) to get the oil back to the maximum level. ( Sorry guys can't judge the exact amount but sure any day its far above 100 ml).

But one thing I feel is as Pinaki sir said maybe it wasn't up to level when I changed the oil since I didn't check it immediately after the oil change it might be a possibility.

Another possibility is the air pockets that develop during oil change. And since the oil is thick the air pockets only disappear after some 300 kms causing the drop in oil level. ( Its my theory might be stupid )

i totally agree with what you say about gulf, vibes & thick oil part.
.
To tackel air pocket problem always check oil level after few km ride. (10 km is more than enough i guess)
also when we pour oil in crankcase, oil stays there unless engine is run for few kms. After some run, oil also come up to the head which can also show you low oil level.
Btw, in cbf, shine, unicorn & fz difference between max & min mark in dip stick is around 200ml. Hope this helps in gauging what amount of oil you put while top up. But i guess its more than 200ml

[Pinaki]

.. what's the difference with SG, SH, SL?? i know additive package is different according to the changing norms but what's the ultimate outcome? What's best for which kind of application? (sorry for the oil war kinda question) .....

These are the service categories of oil according to one American Petroleum Institute . Note that they do not have a specific category for Motorcycle ready oils , unlike JASO . Read this - oilspecifications.org - Lubricant standards and specifications .
What they have done with the more and more stringent (emission norms etc) and newer categories of oils like SM and SL is that it contains less and less emission causing & cat-con killing additives like ZDDP ( zinc & phosphorus ) . Current categories are said to be fully backward compatible to the earlier SG etc types .
Personally speaking , I do not like to use a more modern SL oil in an old engine specified for SG or SJ (nowadays you mostly can't help it). ZDDP is an anti-wear additive and you don't want too little of it in an motorcycle engine . I also believe that yamaha retains the two types of mineral oils in 20w40 grades precisely because of that . They too don't approve using SL grade oils in their older SG specified engines IMHO . This is also why many users prefers the older & cheaper SG grade yamalube over the newer SL type .

..Yes it has happened to me . Well only one time though. I used to check my oil level before that oil change and there was no drop in oil level till I changed the oil. So when I changed oil that time I didn't bother to check the level because of my previous experience with 20w 40 gulf oil . And one day after some 1k kms after oil change I checked the oil and it never even touched my dip stick ...

Very likely mistake , how do you think I started checking the oil level again one day afterwards of refilling ?

In single cylinder engines vibrations will be pronounced at some rpm no matter what we do. We have to accept it. They key point is to reduce it as much as possible without causing any side effects. Gulf oil is more viscous and during longer commutations it really is good as the oil doesn't lose its character at high engine temperature. The oil reduces vibrations and reduces oil seepage through rings and increases compression. But all this merits come with few demerits too like sluggishness and warm up time and loss of initial acceleration. And our bike is a 223 cc engine and older karizmas used 20w 40 so the adding extra load is completely negligible . There is no point in worrying about it.
The oil doesn't mask instead it reduces and absorbs the vibrations . And there is no heavy vibrations at high speed too . It performs well in the higher rev range also ( Well for me atleast ). And the engine is silent with a mild grunt exhaust note I love that . Like I said it comes at a price like loss in acceleration and all . ..

Vibrations & noise are two faces of the same coin . They originate from metal to metal friction inside an engine . Less vibration & noise = less friction = less metal to metal contact = less wear . Why do you think both noise & vibration increases drastically as an engine heats up ? It's because the oil thins out and so does the oil film that is there between two contacting metal parts . Contrary to popular thinking , an multigrade oil like 10w30 or 20w40 does not get thicker as it heats up to operational temps . It gets thinner . And runs away from metal parts easier . And causes more wear . So they put some polymers in it that keeps it less runny at operational temps . These polymers don't reduce friction or lubricate any . It just holds the oil film there . Lubrication properties are of that of the base oil . So if you have a heavier weight oil to begin with like 20 it would naturally lubricate better and have less wear than an lighter weight oil like 10 at any temperature. Less noise & vibrations too .
Contending with this wear phenomenon is another called parasitic drag . This is all the work the engine has to do to move the oil itself around . Less weight oils like a 10wt would consequently have less such drag and be more revvy and provide theoretically better fuel-mileage than a heavier 20wt oil .
You got to find the balance between the two in your riding conditions & habits , thats feels just right for you .