This is a debate about 4 strokes and the choice between CBR 250 and R15. The person who has started this debate is looking for answers on which way to proceed i.e. should he stick to the R15 and work further on it or should he go for the CBR250... What you are stating about 2 strokes is pretty obvious... ask me... I have a RXZ 5 speed with stage 3 tuning ... also Meghan has a RX... after spending 20 years on a 2 stroke I think I can safely say that we are aware of what potential 2 strokes offer...

I know which way this is going, but let me say this, even the R15 was a over hyped machine when launched, it is only because of Joel's efforts the R15 has gained more and more respect.

To the buyer, he has mentioned that he some reliability issues, test ride the CBR and probably a fully joeled R15 too and make your call.

See, you have to clear your priorities. But, if I had no budget problem or I really need that reliability for touring, then only I would get a CBR250.
Within city levels, you are much better off with your R17.

Remember, you have a bike having equal power to the p220, with lesser weight and much better handling and agility too. and I think better mileage too, given the petrol prices. Very less bikes have this kind of combo in India, and probably the world too, given that rule implementation is strict in other developed countries, where you can use power exhausts and mods only on racetrack.

Even it the bike is a bit harsh @ low revs, try discussing it with Joel about further upgrades and your choice of oil, and keep your R17. And save some money in the process too.

I see your point mate but I don't see why everyone is crying about reliability here?

My setup has done ~9000 kms on the street with just 2 oil changes and is pushed on every city ride and has toured non stop for few hours. Everyday on my way home I hit 150-155kph on the bike. It's taken more abuse than most bikes R15s here and rides as good as new at 34500kms and counting. So where do all these questions of reliability coming up from? I'm not sure what issues Harish might've had with his bike. I don't mind the loud exhaust :P

@all: From several perspectives CBR is very good, pricing being a majority of it and I don't deny it. But frankly after riding a Ninja and my bike back to back I don't see how the CBR will take the performance to the next level as compared to my bike and the Ninja. Engine Performance was the basis of my point. Nothing else.

OT: Most guys have heard about souped up bikes. Very few have had the opportunity to ride them like they are built for so I'm not surprised if people don't believe when Joel says it can be done and when we owners report that its doing what its built to do.

Most people don't mod their bike. And most people's perception of modding has been explicitly described on the forums. Having ridden a stock bike for 25000+kms and a reliably modified one for another 9000 I don't see the difference just yet.

@Harish: Buy the CBR so we can all live in peace man

Have to agree with all that you have said... I am also curious to know what issues he is facing... why is he saying that he had to make some reliability compromises ... my bike is pretty much bullet proof and I take it regularly to 11,500 + rpm without any issues at all...

+1
You just spoke from my mind

joels modded bikes are equally reliable...think again

I dont really think you need to replace your tuned R15 with a CBR.A NINJA?maybe.But i personally don't think you are going to have a lot of fun upgrading from a tuned R15 to a CBR.But if you are have reliability issues which cant be sorted or you want a bike with a fresh look,well then get a CBR.

Dude, get the CBR, it will solve all your problems and don't forget to return your R15 back to stock, I have a couple of grand with your name on it, for the ecu, bore kit and I will even take the air filter off your hands free of charge, i will even throw in a Hertz subwoofer in with the two grand (which already has your name on it)

if i were you , i will get myself a cruiser like classic 500 or 350

i will get two different kind of bikes,, joled r15 for speed and ,, a bullet kind of bike for touring ,, or for some good rides ,,

if u get a cbr 250 u will have two bikes of the same category ,

and i dont like selling bikes,, i feel they worth more than that dealer give us
my bike was part of me for 3 years
my first bike ,

so its up to you
stick with your r15 ,
u can get a better bike than cbr 250

2 weeks ago, we happened to sample a CBR250 at the Kari Track, CBE. Well the bike was 3 secs slower than the Group D R15, both ridden by an expert rider. Feels like a boat around the corners and performance was just a tad better than the ZMR which was also tested at the same time around the track. The Ninja has the better potential obviously, but the cost cant justify that. Literally cost 3 times an R15.
The CBR250 can be made to go fast, but in stock its still a 10 secs to 100kph machine, which can be easily beaten with a tweeked P220 which costs half. Let alone a souped R15.

Coming to the mods and reliability, I guess I need to clear the air here.
Well, its a common thing with most to assume - more power = less reliability. This is the bug thats fed into every biker by a fellow mech or biker.
A few tips to follow when you have a modified engine,
1. Follow the initial 200-300kms religiously without any stress or load. Single rider.
2. Maintain oil level and oil change intervals
3. Maintain coolant levels
4. Avoid 100% constant abuse and keep pinning in intervals. Cruise at steady speeds and user higher gears mostly during touring to avoid stress load.
5. Avoid overheating by over revving in neutral and avoid prolonged idling

Any souped engine will produce more heat than stock. Even a factory tuned car/bike is recommended to be maintained more carefully than its regular stock counterpart. The mitsubishi EVO FQ400 makes a lot more power (400+) than its original 300hp version, but service intervals are almost half. Comes with factory warranty, but owner risk applies if intervals are breached....ever wondered why?
But why would you still buy one? Simply coz it can smoke the day lights off cars which cost over twice. Thats the thrill of owning a tuned ride. It cant be related to people who seek logic over heart. Its heart over logic.
A souped R15's kicks can only be experienced when you ride one. The powerband and the way it all comes out. And the frame and handling makes you feel at home. Its truly a character thats unmatched by any Indian bike. Even the CBR250. The CBR is more of a tourer and a lazy bike. Seriously lazy, that you might even sleep off .

I occassionally end up riding my own blown R15 and the kicks I must say are very intoxicating. The power at the twist is something that I relish and makes me push the performance envelope myself. My racing developments help me push the game further. All this, coz I'm an enthusiast and a racer inside. If my logics were ahead of me, I'd still be doing my office job and making no difference to the biking world, just like anybody else.

+100 You are doing a wonderful Job Joel....and world should know your potential ....I Highly Recommend a Fully Joeled R15 to a Stock CBR ...and afterwards will love to see performance results...

I heartfully thank you Guys for spending you time and helping me out with this query.

@ KwokFist and abhimanyu31

You both seem to be experts here. But you see, you never seem to have understood my concern, rather being too much defensive on your views.

As per my knowledge through XBHP I came to know that the Honda CBR is performing well. I have never tried or tested it and hope will be getting a chance in the near future. So I wanted to compare them to see which one is more suitable.

I will make it even clear,

If this post leads my way in getting a new CBR then I can possible sell off my R15 for a good 80K price tag and invest a little more on the CBR. Or invest a little more on further "Joeling"

Moreover,

I see some commenting a Joeled R15 is just a fraction of cost to the CBR. Please correct yourselves an R15 today costs upto 1,14,000 on road, So unless and until you put your R15 on sale its still worth the same for its owner. (Hope you got it) If someone inquires about the price tag you are going to say 1+Lac and not 70-80K.

Lets say we add the Joeling costs to it and check the overall price. Now coming to the CBR it retails at 1,57,000 on road. So can we consider we can get a CBR in a Fraction of a cost over a Joeled R15????

Lets get back proceeding with this post.

I have completed around 500Kms of Run-in as instructed by experts and the performance seems to be a dream. Even the vibes have seem to be settled.

This run-in is done with Yamalube mineral oil and planning to change it to Full synthetic after a 1000km run-in, I am able to push the bike upto 7-8K rpm without any issues. So once I complete the run-in I can post you the exact story.

Regarding reliability factor, Yes the bike wont crank at the first shot and some over heating issues here and there, but thats not the end of the world.

I am working on every issue to get it sorted. I am a bit lucky as one my friend is a factory tuner for R125 in the UK. He is basically from Hyderabad and he helps me out clearing these tit bits.

Like, I had an issue with the stock exhaust not being able to exhale the 165CC block. I resolved the issue myself by slightly modifying the stock exhaust. Now the setup is fine without any compromise in quietness. To my surprise I found one reason why the R15 is priced over a lakh, the R15's stock exhaust has a little amount of Titanium in it.

My next step is, I have scheduled an appointment with a nearby hi-tech lathe to check out the difference in heat anticipation between the Stock and Joel's Block. Will post you the results for sure.

Later this week my friend is visiting Chennai for a Race event and he has promised to take look at my bike. Later next week am getting a chance to fully try and test the CBR in Hyderabad as his team sponsors have got them a couple of CBRs.

Will keep you guys posted with all the updates. But don't forget to throw in your ideas.

Millions of thanks to everyone out here.

One side you say the Joel setup is good and than you ask in terms of handling, so here you yourself are putting yourself in doubt as all joel has done is engine modifications not handling at all and again you yourself say performance is good than what are you trying to convey??

Just for a raise of 4bhp you planning to upgrade to CBR 250, i think its not worth it. Again you say you have to do some compromises on joeled R15. Can you please elaborate on the same.

How and what kind of harshness is added can you please write down??

[/QUOTE]

One side you write positive points that joel setup is good than you write the engine is harsh and all than you think of upgrading the same setup, and lastly you confused over to switch over to CBR 250, dude its your call if you have mollah than go for what you feel but please let all of us know what troubles you faced with your joeled R15 and again do you think the CBR would be that reliable as your R15?

Hmmm... first of all let me clarify, I don't think I have said anything that comes out as defensive... please check ALL my posts carefully on your thread... I have very clearly said that I DON'T want to get into this debate as it can be argued for hours and hours together (as it is apparently happening right now) without any crystallized outcome ... I have merely agreed with Kwokfist views while expressing my curiosity about what issues you are facing and what compromises you had to make... that's all,... what is the point of spewing sarcasm when on one end you are asking for opinions and the other end you have already formed some fixed ideas about our views...

Please read my post very carefully... I have not said that a so called 'Joeled' R15 is just a fraction of cost to the CBR... I have said it will cost less than a new CBR (which is an undeniable fact no matter how you want to justify that is not so by quoting cost by current market prices or current value or for that matter depreciated value, so on and so forth...)...