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You are the best man to answer the query that you raised in the first place. You should know better yourself. You tell me rather .. should i go for it ?Originally posted by HarishK View PostI heartfully thank you Guys for spending you time and helping me out with this query.
@ KwokFist and abhimanyu31
You both seem to be experts here. But you see, you never seem to have understood my concern, rather being too much defensive on your views.
As per my knowledge through XBHP I came to know that the Honda CBR is performing well. I have never tried or tested it and hope will be getting a chance in the near future. So I wanted to compare them to see which one is more suitable.
I will make it even clear,
If this post leads my way in getting a new CBR then I can possible sell off my R15 for a good 80K price tag and invest a little more on the CBR. Or invest a little more on further "Joeling"
Moreover,
I see some commenting a Joeled R15 is just a fraction of cost to the CBR. Please correct yourselves an R15 today costs upto 1,14,000 on road, So unless and until you put your R15 on sale its still worth the same for its owner. (Hope you got it) If someone inquires about the price tag you are going to say 1+Lac and not 70-80K.
Lets say we add the Joeling costs to it and check the overall price. Now coming to the CBR it retails at 1,57,000 on road. So can we consider we can get a CBR in a Fraction of a cost over a Joeled R15????
Lets get back proceeding with this post.
I have completed around 500Kms of Run-in as instructed by experts and the performance seems to be a dream. Even the vibes have seem to be settled.
This run-in is done with Yamalube mineral oil and planning to change it to Full synthetic after a 1000km run-in, I am able to push the bike upto 7-8K rpm without any issues. So once I complete the run-in I can post you the exact story.
Regarding reliability factor, Yes the bike wont crank at the first shot and some over heating issues here and there, but thats not the end of the world.
I am working on every issue to get it sorted. I am a bit lucky as one my friend is a factory tuner for R125 in the UK. He is basically from Hyderabad and he helps me out clearing these tit bits.
Like, I had an issue with the stock exhaust not being able to exhale the 165CC block. I resolved the issue myself by slightly modifying the stock exhaust. Now the setup is fine without any compromise in quietness. To my surprise I found one reason why the R15 is priced over a lakh, the R15's stock exhaust has a little amount of Titanium in it.
My next step is, I have scheduled an appointment with a nearby hi-tech lathe to check out the difference in heat anticipation between the Stock and Joel's Block. Will post you the results for sure.
Later this week my friend is visiting Chennai for a Race event and he has promised to take look at my bike. Later next week am getting a chance to fully try and test the CBR in Hyderabad as his team sponsors have got them a couple of CBRs.
Will keep you guys posted with all the updates. But don't forget to throw in your ideas.
Millions of thanks to everyone out here.sigpic
I am responsible !
I am trying !
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@Harish - First of, please stop listening to everybody around you. From the mechs to your Einstein buddies. Makes things simpler if you ask me directly.
A few things that I wanna correct you on.
In one of the older threads you had mentioned you have a problem with the auto-choke idle for 50-70secs which according to you is harmful. Well that was another debate. Coming to the engine, like I said every factor for engine reliabity has been considered with my upgrades. Its very evident that a piston weighing 15 gms more than stock is not going to keep it silky smooth like stock, more because of the extra material on the piston to make it 3mm larger.
You already seem to come with a certain bucket load of knowledge and even when you met me here, I told you to not think too much and anything you wanna know, I'll answer.
The CBR is a good bike. Please go ahead and buy it, if thats what your mind says. Its very capable too. Debate ends here.sigpic
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Guys,
Once again I rephrase the objective of this thread,
I want to know if my R15 could be tuned to achieve a ride which is balanced in both Performance and smoothness or not. How is the CBR since most of us have tested it.
@ abhimanyu31
I have read all your threads and KwokFist 's here and its my honest option that you both are Experts, nothing sarcastic.
@ abhi_underdog
Send a PM to Joel and he must help you out and if you want to know my experience,then give me some time, I will post my honest experience.
@ Joel
I am typing a long email to you, Please save time to read it.
Moving on with my Quest,
I got loads of suggestions from XBHP in PM regarding the additional tuning required to make my bike stress free. I even got many phone calls too. Thanks to everyone.
Yesterday I tested a Joeled R15 with the Big bore and his Exhaust, to see what difference the Exhaust makes.
Performance:
The bikes grunt was really good and the power delivery was linear and overall I would say the bike revved across the RP Meter as smooth as stock (Did not try over 7K RPM as the bike was in Run-in).Unlike mine I had no hesitations while applying throttle wide open, Moreover the Exhaust is a bit loud and but not irritating like a two stroke.
Smoothness:
The bore part is exactly the same, a little bit harsh over the stock but Exhaust takes over and completely suppresses engine noise and vibes.
I am getting the lathe results tomorrow and will post the same.
Currently I have a lot engine braking and I feel I am pushing the bike real hard to climb over 6K RPM, Mileage is returning less than 30. So planning to make some Port alterations in the Cylinder head later this week to see if the bike performs with less stress and vibes, also try tuning the stock exhaust a little more as per advice from Yamaha service.
I am trying out all permutations and combinations to get my bike in a perfect balance on Performance, Mileage and Smoothness, will post my honest experience and if I do fail, yes there is a Honda showroom right next to home
Guys if there is anything am missing out in tuning my bike, please do advice.Comment
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^^ One thing mate, I suggest you get all the mods done from a single person only. Mix and match may not work in situations like this.Your biking tells a lot about the person you are!Comment
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Yeah you are right abhijeet080808 ,
I too prefer everything done by one person that to if its the Master Joel I would be even more happy.
I have sent a PM requesting for some more advice from him and also I cannot expect him to allocate time for me alone.Comment
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@Harish - just for the information of others here as well, I'll quote a few things here.
A larger block means a larger piston = a few gms more than stock.
Increased compression further over stock = more pressure on the piston crown. This forces the piston to slap more against the wall of the cylinder and hence makes it feel a little more vibey over stock. Ever wondered why the RTR is vibey? But it still performs.
A performance engine with higher compression etc cant be 100% as smooth as stock due to increased CR and the factors I mentioned above. Again settling tappets right and setting the whole engine makes the experience better. Most of the fully souped engine are smooth since they have the right intake and exhaust flow to help matters.
In your case, the exhaust is still stock and and removing the restriction will make it a super combo. YOu have the ECU and the airfilter and you have a chocked stock exhaust. The mapping set for your engine is quite aggressive. Just for your tests, pls get another R15 with my exhaust, swap it and take it for a spin. All your answers will be answered.
But like you said, ur dad is a cop and you cant get messy
. So for now, I'll come down to chennai while I'm at the race weekend and solve your maps. Dont worry, like I told you offline, our ECU has a 2 yr warranty and I will offer whatever support it is to keep anybody happy.
Finally, dont get messy with the head and other stuffs, they do no good as you think it would. Dont make your engine a puzzle for a lot of others to learn. Hope you get what I mean.sigpic
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@ harish
I too remember my bike being rough at high revs, struggling to idle, etc. Then I put on an exhaust and it sorted out every thing.. I still remember the first time I rode my bike with the exhaust.. engine running smooth and effortlessly...out of words here.. you will know when put on an ffe and ride..
PM me for Daytona Racing ECU for the R15
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Thanks sharingan,
But you see as Joel has mentioned above, my Dad is a Police inspector here and I too have a small "Police" sticker in my bike to avoid sticker flickers (I mean the logo stickers) and Traffic checks. Trust me that small sticker is still responsible for the brand new look of my bike even after 2.5yrs.
So due to these restrictions I may not be able to afford a FFE. But yes Joel has advised an work-around for this.
@ Joel
Ok Deal! I will collect all the inputs and meet you here.
As per your word, I planned to test the setup with stock ECU, took the bike to nearby highway and cooled it down completely, connected your converter cable to Stock ECU firmly until I got the click sound. Then took the bike for a spin,
My Observations,
1)No difference in vibrations and harshness the bike felt the same on both the ECUs in the respective RPMs.
I feel the harshness and vibes are mechanical rather logical (ECU).
2)The power delivery was linear, I mean there were no block or hickups across the RP Meter, it was similar to the stock bike experience.
3) Regarding Performance, I felt like my front tyre got punctured. Initial Pickup was real bad. It was really boring to cover about 10Kms.
I stopped the bike and cooled down completely switched back to Joel's ECU.
1) First thing I noticed was huge increase in performance, which is like pulling you away right from 1.5K RPM (like >7K RPM in stock).
2) I felt the bike to be more balanced both in low and Mid end.
3) But the power or fuel delivery is not even. I felt hickups and slight blocks till 7K RPM
Let me try to explain the difference in Power delivery, which I felt from 1.5K RPM to 7K RPM
STOCK ECU: 1.5K______________5K_________7K
JOEL'S ECU: 1.5K___-___-___-__5K_-___--__-7K
As I have mentioned earlier, I felt real hard to push the bike over 6K RPM, the engine gets a lot stressed and vibes are too much. So I did not try over 7K RPM in both the ECUs.
In short what I feel in Joel's ECU feeds the Engine with more Fuel, but needs to be tuned a little bit.
Also I feel the ECU needs to be tuned with respect to the climatic conditions. Its a fact that Chennai is toooooo hot when compared to Banglore, the engine temperature hits ugly heights, During night rides I dont find the crank case over heating, but during a day ride it will for sure burn your skin if you touch it.
One thing for sure, I reverting back to stock bore is out of question, today I tested a new stock R15 and felt no excitement, it like switching back over to P150 from a P220.
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Like I said earlier Harish, once I meet you we'll set up the maps again. Its a 5 mins job. Chennai is one weird place. Similar map works perfect at Mumbai and both are at sea level
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Just a query. Whats the price for a Joel's R15? Lets say a 2009 model Joel'd last year. What price can one demand while selling?Comment
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Its purely subjective,
I mean the understanding between the seller and buyer, no one can quote a price for it. coz a modified bike always has less resale value in market. But a Joeled R15 cannot be compared to immatured local modds as all most all Joeled R15 owners enjoy performance, mileage and reliability equal or better than stock. (Only me being the exception
as bike is not completely Joeled)
I dont think anyone will sell their Joeled R15 atleast for the next 2 yrs, thats because there isnt another option available in market for them to quench their performance thirst @ this price point.
Also I heard from one of Yamaha's representatives (My good old friend) that the 2011 R15 will hit the market in about 2-3 months from now and all spy pics have been released in websites. The blogs anticipate a 22hp motor, which again is not possible. The new R15 will be more or less the same 17hp again. Thats the standard in which a street legal 150cc 4 stroke bike is sold worldwide, its applies for all bikes from the CBR 150 to YZF 150. Even none of the 125cc street legal bikes would exceed 15ps may it be the R125 or the KTM Duke.
So which means even the new 2011 R15 is no match to the Joeled R15 in terms of performance. May be you can check out by creating a new thread here, coz I have seen many Joeled R15 owners switching over to Ninja.Comment
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Cbr is not worthy of a upgradw for u. It just dont have that rev hungry feeling and that amazing handling of R15. R15 is a lightweight pure track machine, the fun of cornering her at high speeds is just not there on CBR. If i were u i will nvr trade joeled r165 for something like a CBR. I wont evn trade a 220 for CBR. U better save up ur money and pay it as a downpayment for a kwacker or hyosung 650 rather than spending ur hard earned money on 100cc "upgrades". Ninja 250 is also a gud choice if u want a quarter litre. Its way more satisfying than CBR.Street racing is for Squids trying to make up for their small equipmentComment
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reliability depends. i'd say any tuned engine requires a little bit more care than its stock counterpart just because it will generate more heat. but that doesnt mean its unreliable.
if you take into account the price to performance factor i'd surely go for the joeled r15 just because it is a more complete sports package. as for a cbr it is more of a compromise. cbr is designed to be a tourer. if you are a tourer i will say go for the cbr. i tour a lot on my r15 and for my height (5'7") and weight (55kg) r15 is not a proper tourer. ride is stiff and it also puts pressure on my wrist. cbr has a more relaxed seating position and from what i heard it has a softer suspension.
i wouldnt consider a cbr over a joeled r15 because of the reliability factor. i'd buy a cbr for what it is. a better tourer than the r15.2002 Herculese Top Gear 6 speed
2014 Btwin Rock Rider 8.1
1990 Yamaha RX110
2010 Yamaha YZF-R15
2015 KTM RC390 (Sold)
2018 TVS Apache RR 310
2007 Suzuki Alto LxiComment
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