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**Nithesh** · 01-03-2012, 03:24 AM

Originally posted by Killer View Post

a tourer like the CBR with its plush suspension and ultra wide tire profile is lazy and sluggish in comparison. If you like to rip fast through twisties, the CBR is not the bike for you.

I believe you're the "Killer" who reviewed the bike when it was launched for xbhp? When you tested the bike, how many kms did it have on the odo?
And post that review have you ever tested a proper run-in bike? Something which has atleast covered 6k on the odo?

**vivek_k_p** · 01-03-2012, 01:05 PM

Originally posted by Killer View Post

Hmm lots of these types of questions arising nowadays, heres my perspective on each ride.

Theres a reason many people dont find the R15 ride appealing and thats coz its built for a specific kind of rider and meant to be ridden a certain way. Its a thoroughbred. Yes its roots are in racing, but i see far too many references to R15 being a full on race bike, not meant for street etc etc, i think its important to clear some of those misconceptions. The average joe especially in a country like India is not used to sporty riding positions, so they are uncomfortable on a sports bike with issues like wrist pain etc. These of course wouldnt be an issue for one who knows that on a sports bike you use your knees and core to hold your body up on the bike, you dont put weight on the wrists. These are basics of riding any sports bike and in other countries people go to riding schools to learn these things and unlearn typical mistakes. So when you decide on a bike like the R15 you have to ask yourself what kind of rider are you? If your decision is based on looks then thats a different matter entirely and i wont comment on that in this post.

Sport bikes also make power high up in the rpm range, the r15 is no different. If you want to have fun on the r15 you ride it between 7k-10k rpm, you can look at some of my videos on my youtube channel if you like for reference on how a r15 should be ridden. Ridden right its pretty fast. Sport bikes have stiffer suspension, which dont make them ideal for touring. Again, this goes back to the original question, what kind of rider are you? if you're one you prefers a plush ride, the ability to glide over undulations in the road and lazy roll on's with power on tap at low rpms, then R15 is not the bike for you. This doesnt mean you cant tour on the R15, you most certianly can and stiff suspension doesnt mean uncomfortable, its just stiff enough to keep the bike rock stable in corners but not overly stiff at all like a full on race bike might be. As a result, handling on the R15 is ultra precise and sharp, a tourer like the CBR with its plush suspension and ultra wide tire profile is lazy and sluggish in comparison. If you like to rip fast through twisties, the CBR is not the bike for you. In my opinion Honda was smart, the CBR 250 was designed for the masses. The average joe. A bike a regular guy can just jump on and be comfortable with. Its easy to ride, with power concentrated in the mid-rpm range and perfectly accessible to riders of all skillsets. It has the extra CC's which are always welcome and more power as a result. At the end of the day its a bike that does a bit of everthing but nothing particularly well. A jack of all, and master of none. The R15 on the other hand is a master of what it does albeit missing a few cubes, but what it lacks in CC it almost makes up for in pure high rpm screaming nirvana.

Know yourself and what kind of rider you are or aspire to be before you decide between these 2 machines, they're like apples and oranges.

Hey that was real piece of information man.

Enjoyed those videos and I also love riding in that inner ring road

except that speed breaker.

**Killer** · 01-03-2012, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by Nithesh View Post

I believe you're the "Killer" who reviewed the bike when it was launched for xbhp? When you tested the bike, how many kms did it have on the odo?
And post that review have you ever tested a proper run-in bike? Something which has atleast covered 6k on the odo?

yup thats me. Friends have the CBR too so have ridden a fair bit on it. Running in doesnt change the nature of the bikes handling.

**payeng** · 01-03-2012, 01:39 PM

Originally posted by Killer View Post

..the CBR 250 was designed for the masses. The average joe. A bike a regular guy can just jump on and be comfortable with. Its easy to ride, with power concentrated in the mid-rpm range and perfectly accessible to riders of all skillsets.

..At the end of the day its a bike that does a bit of everthing but nothing particularly well. A jack of all, and master of none.

The R15 on the other hand is a master of what it does albeit missing a few cubes, but what it lacks in CC it almost makes up for in pure high rpm screaming nirvana.

Agree with you totally

**darkknight** · 01-03-2012, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by Killer View Post

Hmm lots of these types of questions arising nowadays, heres my perspective on each ride.

Theres a reason many people dont find the R15 ride appealing and thats coz its built for a specific kind of rider and meant to be ridden a certain way. Its a thoroughbred. Yes its roots are in racing, but i see far too many references to R15 being a full on race bike, not meant for street etc etc, i think its important to clear some of those misconceptions. The average joe especially in a country like India is not used to sporty riding positions, so they are uncomfortable on a sports bike with issues like wrist pain etc. These of course wouldnt be an issue for one who knows that on a sports bike you use your knees and core to hold your body up on the bike, you dont put weight on the wrists. These are basics of riding any sports bike and in other countries people go to riding schools to learn these things and unlearn typical mistakes. So when you decide on a bike like the R15 you have to ask yourself what kind of rider are you? If your decision is based on looks then thats a different matter entirely and i wont comment on that in this post.

Sport bikes also make power high up in the rpm range, the r15 is no different. If you want to have fun on the r15 you ride it between 7k-10k rpm, you can look at some of my videos on my youtube channel if you like for reference on how a r15 should be ridden. Ridden right its pretty fast. Sport bikes have stiffer suspension, which dont make them ideal for touring. Again, this goes back to the original question, what kind of rider are you? if you're one you prefers a plush ride, the ability to glide over undulations in the road and lazy roll on's with power on tap at low rpms, then R15 is not the bike for you. This doesnt mean you cant tour on the R15, you most certianly can and stiff suspension doesnt mean uncomfortable, its just stiff enough to keep the bike rock stable in corners but not overly stiff at all like a full on race bike might be. As a result, handling on the R15 is ultra precise and sharp, a tourer like the CBR with its plush suspension and ultra wide tire profile is lazy and sluggish in comparison. If you like to rip fast through twisties, the CBR is not the bike for you. In my opinion Honda was smart, the CBR 250 was designed for the masses. The average joe. A bike a regular guy can just jump on and be comfortable with. Its easy to ride, with power concentrated in the mid-rpm range and perfectly accessible to riders of all skillsets. It has the extra CC's which are always welcome and more power as a result. At the end of the day its a bike that does a bit of everthing but nothing particularly well. A jack of all, and master of none. The R15 on the other hand is a master of what it does albeit missing a few cubes, but what it lacks in CC it almost makes up for in pure high rpm screaming nirvana.

Know yourself and what kind of rider you are or aspire to be before you decide between these 2 machines, they're like apples and oranges.

First class First rate answer
& for someone who has toured on the r15 (70K kms- never on track) in 2 years --Taken it to some serious off roading--to leh ladakh -- for bun burner etc
It still scores on top compared to the c250R (which I now own BTW & have 15k kms experience on it)--feel factor--pleasure --nirvana or whatever you define biking as in your dictionary
But that's just me & every feedback is essentially the rider's opinion & choice

**RanjithMN** · 01-03-2012, 06:50 PM

Originally posted by Killer View Post

..the CBR 250 was designed for the masses. The average joe. A bike a regular guy can just jump on and be comfortable with. Its easy to ride, with power concentrated in the mid-rpm range and perfectly accessible to riders of all skillsets.

..At the end of the day its a bike that does a bit of everthing but nothing particularly well. A jack of all, and master of none.

The R15 on the other hand is a master of what it does albeit missing a few cubes, but what it lacks in CC it almost makes up for in pure high rpm screaming nirvana.

This pretty much says it all.
and that is why i would recommend a CBR250 cause the general public wants exactly "A jack of all, and master of none.".The advantages of a R15 will most likely be never pushed by the average Indian.

**Nithesh** · 01-03-2012, 06:54 PM

Originally posted by Killer View Post

yup thats me. Friends have the CBR too so have ridden a fair bit on it. Running in doesnt change the nature of the bikes handling.

No but a faulty coneset or other mechanical parts deters the outcome of handling badly no? Especially on the pre-nov lot bikes

Originally posted by Killer

At the end of the day its a bike that does a bit of everthing but nothing particularly well. A jack of all, and master of none.

It is built as a sports tourer. And thus it is a "Master of sports tourers" money can buy atm no especially with its low-med rev nature and a decent top-end performance? A bike should be percieved as per its category and not its price-range or displacement.

Nobody compares a GTR1400 to a ZX-14R

Originally posted by Killer

Know yourself and what kind of rider you are or aspire to be before you decide between these 2 machines, they're like apples and oranges.

Exactly.
At the end of the day the CBR is built for
Quick Twisties on CBR250r - YouTube

and a little bit of
CBR250R in Sepang International Circuit - YouTube

Looking at how the bonestock CBR fares with the lightly modified Ninjas on the track, it isnt that bad on the track afterall.
But keep in mind the CBR isnt built for the tracks.

**Killer** · 01-03-2012, 08:58 PM

Originally posted by Nithesh View Post

Looking at how the bonestock CBR fares with the lightly modified Ninjas on the track, it isnt that bad on the track afterall.
But keep in mind the CBR isnt built for the tracks.

Looking at a video wont tell you what the bike feels like on track or quick twisties, i'd suggest you try it for yourself before making a determination. In case you didnt know a few of us as racers have spent a lot of time testing this bike on track and otherwise and giving feedback to honda for improvement, we race this bike in the cbr250r one make race here...trust me, we do know what we're talking about. The Ninja is a full 3 secs a lap quicker than the cbr on tracks here in the hands of pros and handling difference is night and day. Our tracks are way tighter than a track like sepang with much shorter straights so the handling really comes into play....cbr was not built for twisties. In essence i think we are in agreement, just that you seem to think the CBR handles twisties fairly well, it doesnt actually, it handles like a boat and thats all simply due to ultra plush suspension and too wide tire profile. Fix that and yes it will handle well.

**aargee** · 01-03-2012, 09:28 PM

Killer, with due respects...

Originally posted by Killer View Post

the CBR 250 was designed for the masses

So does R15, including Ninja 250R isn't it? Or are you saying they're produced to be ridden only on tracks? Otherwise, we wouldn't be seeing them doing GQ or made it to Leh right? So why would CBR 250R be any different?

OTOH, how nice it is to offer a different product in the market that has full cowl, offer a relaxed ride, best suited on potholed road that had characteristic of sports bike yet suited for regular roads unlike saying "yet another track bike"? Just like asking a question why should sports bike always be ridden on tracks or have same set of characteristics?

**Killer** · 01-03-2012, 09:43 PM

^Yup i dont disagree with you at all, its made to do a bit of everything and thats what makes sense for the masses, but to me at the cost of a lot. Average skilled riders which are the bulk of our populace, wont notice the poor handling coz they cant ride well enough to and are not experienced enough to make use of better handling. But for those who do enjoy a bit of serious cornering and still do tour (and there are many riders like that), it will be an instant put off. As you said, you can tour on a ninja too, take it to leh as well as corner hard as a sportbike is intended to be ridden, there is nothing about the bike that restricts that. The CBR however wont allow the rider to ride that way. At the very least they should have provided adjustable suspension options for front if they were going to go that plush on suspension.

So at the end of the day when we come back to the original question of 'which bike', i cant in my right mind recommend the cbr to someone who likes spirited twisties coz the R15 wins over the CBR there, hands down. If the guy is strictly a 'relaxed tourer' then sure he will be happy with the CBR, no doubt.

**aargee** · 01-03-2012, 09:55 PM

Once again with due respect & not intending to argue...

Originally posted by Killer View Post

This is my opinion

As an owner, that's my opinion too.

Practically speaking (and experienced)...our roads have potholes nor the bikes to be raced on our roads (where handling matters).

I believe (yet to try), the hard compound tires are the culprit on CBR; once they're changed to soft compound like R15/N250R, cornering should be possible with hardest rear suspension setting. As you're an expert yourself, I needless to tell you that. Did you try that? I'm really waiting for some expert to give a try with that setup & post their opinion. Idea is not to make CBR a track machine, but, to fill the stiff suspension on sports bike fact.

IMHO, one of the major setback on the STD bike is the poor brakes, otherwise, there's almost no competition for that bike on our roads (KTM 200 for now) for the practicality it offers.

**Killer** · 01-03-2012, 10:07 PM

Practically speaking (and experienced)...our roads have potholes nor the bikes to be raced on our roads (where handling matters).

See thats where i have a slight difference of opinion but thats just me. I dont mind a slightly stiffer suspension even on our potholed roads because i can still ride over them comfortably, its just that i'll use proper riding technique and raise my butt off the seat briefly as i go over them, that way i dont even feel them and the bike will not get unsettled as it would on the cbr (bad for mid corner potholes). Thats for the really bad potholes, the rest of them yes maybe the comfort factor wont match a plush suspension but then i'd rather sacrifice a bit of comfort than handling. But again i'm not a tourer and over long distances i know things like fatigue can be a issue, so like i said, thats just me. As far as using a good handling package on our roads, i think its absolutely doable and just boils down to skill, but skill wont matter for nuts if the handling package isnt there.

There is nothing wrong with the stock tire compound. In fact the same tires are used on the one make race bikes and are pushed to extremes on the track with no grip issues. You can jack up the rear to hardest setting and it will sort the rear out to some extent on stock tires. The front however will still be a major problem, you will need to use some other solution for that like using shims inside the forks or some aftermarket adjustable options which i hear are being made available abroad.

**aargee** · 01-03-2012, 10:12 PM

Originally posted by Killer View Post

But again i'm not a tourer so and over long distances i know things like fatigue can be a issue

Guess...^^^ speaks it all. You're talking from track perspective & mine differs from it.

Originally posted by Killer View Post

The front however will still be a major problem

Major problem??? I'd rather dare to call it even pathetic, ridiculous & what not!!! Add to that the ineffective front brakes on STD version.

**Killer** · 01-03-2012, 10:25 PM

Originally posted by aargee View Post

Guess...^^^ speaks it all. You're talking from track perspective & mine differs from it.

Not entirely, i've done my fair share of touring, i just dont define myself as a tourer

**darkknight** · 01-03-2012, 10:33 PM

@aargee: A soon to be launched video will show my cbr set to stiffest of settings & a bit done to the front on the lavasa twisties

the rider sagar46 will surely quip in with his experience too

as for comfort tourer tag, except for the bit less power on the R15 there is nothing more on the cbr that surpasses that bike

Maybe it's my bike (i still get handlebar vibes above 7k rpm & below 4k rpm which I absolutely hate on the cbr) or maybe my build (lighter side) which makes me appreciate the R15 more

ps:I most certainly feel a major difference in the bike's charateristic with a pillion and on the better side but to make solid comment I only have limited experience one up.

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