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**Praful** · 01-12-2009, 12:52 PM

Originally posted by pranay View Post

^^ ab bas bhi karo yaars.

IMO, 220 is a tourer/city bike. Ananth doesn't want pulsars. So I would suggest him a ZMA. Though the Thunderbird too is very tempting. I would prefer loads of torque in my tourer, that is why I am suggesting these two.

Originally posted by modifii View Post

Hey guys calm down, when P220 isn't in Ananth's buying list then why you both are arguing?? Everyone has their own thinking, you can't force anyone to believe what you believe.

Lets keep this thread on track.

Guys, like I've been saying all along....FI FI FI...its reliable as hell and any tourer shudnt be hassled into letting his purchase decisions be changed because of false perceptions. And I never got the 220 into the discussion as a possible choice for Ananth! Its an example to prove the FI worth!

And for a change guys lets classify bike base on what they really are engines....and both ZMA and R15 are out and out tourers....Long Stroke motors....

**Praful** · 01-12-2009, 12:59 PM

Originally posted by pranay

Agree on the fact of the Long Stroke. But that is not the only thing enough to classify the bike as a tourer.

Among all the things that makes for a good tourer is the rider who's riding it (remember my TVS50 example

), and after that comes the engine (long stroke Vs. Short stroke).....then the seating posture (read ergonomics) and rest all I believe is secondary!

**pranay** · 01-12-2009, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by prafultripathy View Post

Among all the things that makes for a good tourer is the rider who's riding it (remember my TVS50 example

), and after that comes the engine.....then the seating posture (read ergonomics), rest all I believe is secondary!

Not always are tourer engines long stroke. Yamaha V-Star has a short stroke engine. Don't tell me its not a tourer

Most sport tourers have short stroke engines.
.....

1. engine ( Thunderbird vs ZMA, I guess I would go with the ZMA)

2. ergonomics (Thunderbird here)

3. Stability (atleast in speeds at 80) which I think is pretty important (Do I have to say anything??

Thunderbird = Tank

)

4. Lighting (ZMA takes this)

(purposely left out R15 and P220 because of ananth's disinterestedness)

Let us consider only the bikes (throw the riders out

)

**modifii** · 01-12-2009, 01:52 PM

Guys Ananth has chosen Thunderbird as best tourer in poll, i think job done here.

**Praful** · 01-12-2009, 02:12 PM

Originally posted by pranay View Post

Not always are tourer engines long stroke. Yamaha V-Star has a short stroke engine. Don't tell me its not a tourer

Most sport tourers have short stroke engines.
.....

1. engine ( Thunderbird vs ZMA, I guess I would go with the ZMA)

2. ergonomics (Thunderbird here)

3. Stability (atleast in speeds at 80) which I think is pretty important (Do I have to say anything??

Thunderbird = Tank

)

4. Lighting (ZMA takes this)

(purposely left out R15 and P220 because of ananth's disinterestedness)

Let us consider only the bikes (throw the riders out

)

Bullet has a long stroke engine....don't tell me its a not a tourer!

Bro, there is something called as a norm and something called as an exception! Incase you feel that having a short stoke motor is the norm for a tourer, then you my friend are an exception!

Don't jump the gun yet....think about what I am trying to say here before you post a reply!

Coming back to the points you mentioned, agree on all points except that the ZMA is as comfy & stable as a T'Bird.

**pranay** · 01-12-2009, 03:04 PM

I hope this discussion proves useful to ananth.

Originally posted by prafultripathy View Post

Bullet has a long stroke engine....don't tell me its a not a tourer!

I said engine stroke is not the basis for classification of tourers. I never said tourers must have short strokes. Lets get that clear.

Originally posted by prafultripathy View Post

Bro, there is something called as a norm and something called as an exception! Incase you feel that having a short stoke motor is the norm for a tourer, then you my friend are an exception!

In all these years of biking, you have failed to understand that there is no norm. There are no rules. The rules have changed over the years, if you haven't noticed. 300 km/hr street legal bikes were far from norms twenty years back.

Originally posted by prafultripathy View Post

Don't jump the gun yet....think about what I am trying to say here before you post a reply!

Hmmm...'wake up and smell the coffee'

Originally posted by prafultripathy View Post

Coming back to the points you mentioned, agree on all points except that the ZMA is as comfy & stable as a T'Bird.

Yup. Both are equally comfortable. But as past members have posted, ZMA fishtails in heavy crosswinds (not me saying, ZMA owners from ZMA thread). Bullet has no such issues.

**Xenologik** · 01-12-2009, 03:15 PM

Yup. Both are equally comfortable. But as past members have posted, ZMA fishtails in heavy crosswinds (not me saying, ZMA owners from ZMA thread). Bullet has no such issues

if the bullet fishtails then well, everybody else would be in the air

agree with pranay's point that TBTS would have oodles of torque and would make a decent tourer, and its got respectable F.e too ! and also less prone to problems than other RE's

and yeah considering ananth has a back problem so R15 shouldn't be recommended.. its not good for him to get "suited" to it.

p.s this discussion has been very fruitful.

**inder.cool** · 01-12-2009, 03:17 PM

Originally posted by pranay View Post

ZMA fishtails in heavy crosswinds (not me saying, ZMA owners from ZMA thread). Bullet has no such issues.

Well well...this is news..!!!

I never encountered this sort of instance..!!

**Praful** · 01-12-2009, 03:20 PM

Originally posted by pranay View Post

I said engine stroke is not the basis for classification of tourers. I never said tourers have short strokes. Lets get that clear.

Yes, good that we got that clear!

Originally posted by pranay View Post

In all these years of biking, you have failed to understand that there is no norm. There are no rules. The rules have changed over the years, if you haven't noticed. 300 km/hr street legal bikes were far from norms twenty years back.

Rules & Norms are different my friend, in all these years you seem to have forgotten your high school English lessons!
But, lets not get into english lessons or street legalities even or personal attacks, I hope we both are more mature than that!

What I am trying to say here, believe it or not a Long Stroke motors makes for a better tourer....agree with it or not?

The appropriateness of a particular machine depends on your unique style and priorities.I'll repeat that; Any motorcycle can be used for touring!
I think the important attributes of a touring bike are, in order of priority,

* Reliability,
* Comfort, (Windshields, Seating Position, The Seat, Ride Quality)
* Fun,
* Carrying Capacity,
* Range.

Interesting Read : Here!

Originally posted by pranay View Post

Hmmm...'wake up and smell the coffee'

Coffee, only if its black!

Originally posted by pranay View Post

Yup. Both are equally comfortable. But as past members have posted, ZMA fishtails in heavy crosswinds (not me saying, ZMA owners from ZMA thread). Bullet has no such issues.

About the ZMA fishtails, I've ridden a ZMA and P220 back to back in heavy winds.
In a straightline under heavy crosswind the front becomes a bit light and is prone to headshake and not fishtail (which is actually movement of the rear).And its not as bad as you think is, that you will end up having a fall, but its scary for sure. But in the very same conditions, as we approached a corner, the roles reversed. The 220 developed shakes and the ZMA became rock solid!

So the ZMA ain't as bad as everyone is making out to be. Agreed that there is slight headshake in cross winds, but that doesn't say the bike as a sum total handles badly. Infact it handles quite well!

**pranay** · 01-12-2009, 03:37 PM

Originally posted by prafultripathy View Post

Yes, good that we got that clear!

Rules & Norms are different my friend, in all these years you seem to have forgotten your high school English lessons!

I meant exactly that when I said 'there are no rules, no norms (read standards)'.

Originally posted by prafultripathy View Post

But, lets not get into english lessons or street legalities even or personal attacks, I hope we both are more mature than that!

Agreed.

Originally posted by prafultripathy View Post

What I am trying to say here, believe it or not a Long Stroke motors makes for a better tourer....agree with it or not?

Agree with it, BUT short stroked engine tourers exist. (I feel the P220 is one such instance). No comparisons with ZMA or R15 engine.

Originally posted by prafultripathy View Post

About the ZMA fishtails, I've ridden a ZMA and P220 back to back in heavy winds.
In a straightline under heavy crosswind the front becomes a bit light and is prone to headshake and not fishtail (which is actually movement of the rear).And its not as bad as you think is, that you will end up having a fall, but its scary for sure. But in the very same conditions, as we approached a corner, the roles reversed. The 220 developed shakes and the ZMA became rock solid!

So the ZMA ain't as bad as everyone is making out to be. Agreed that there is slight headshake in cross winds, but that doesn't say the bike as a sum total handles badly. Infact it handles quite well!

Yes, ZMA is rock solid, no doubt, around corners while soaking up the bumps as well as in a straight line. There is no doubt about it. But the whole point here was I was comparing it with a Bullet, number 1, and number 2, I took into account the discussion that took place in xBhp itself about ZMA fishtailing in high speed.

Originally posted by inder.cool View Post

Well well...this is news..!!!

I never encountered this sort of instance..!!

Here's one:-

xBhp.com : The Global Indian Biking Community

http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/152447-post12.html

**Praful** · 01-12-2009, 03:51 PM

Originally posted by pranay View Post

I meant exactly that when I said 'there are no rules, no norms (read standards)'.

Agreed.

Agree with it, BUT short stroked engine tourers exist. (I feel the P220 is one such instance). No comparisons with ZMA or R15 engine.

Yes, ZMA is rock solid, no doubt, around corners while soaking up the bumps as well as in a straight line. There is no doubt about it. But the whole point here was I was comparing it with a Bullet, number 1, and number 2, I took into account the discussion that took place in xBhp itself about ZMA fishtailing in high speed.

Here's one:-
http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/152447-post12.html

And peace has been restored!

Ananth, where have you gone into hiding man?

So TBTS or ZMA for you?......wanna wait for the Glady 250?

**inder.cool** · 01-12-2009, 04:20 PM

Originally posted by Jonak View Post

Test ride ZMA and TBTS. Both bikes are great tourers in their own way. But yes, I too face the fishtailing factor often in ZMA in the highway at high speed.

Jonak, Could you be a bit elaborative on this...!! as to at what all situations did u experience the ZiMA fishtailing..!!!

**Ananth** · 01-12-2009, 04:21 PM

Wow! Thanks a ton for the reply friends..

I have already tested R15 twice - I am not comfortable with the riding posture - So R15 is Out.

P220 / P200 - I dont like Pulsars - Sorry for that - So, Its out of the list

And as suggested, Avenger 200 is also out of the list..

Now the question is ZMA / TBTS..?

I already owned a ZMA - so am Ok with it.. I would test drive a TBTS again this Wednesday and decide..

The only thing that keeps me slightly attached to TBTS is that, i find it as a long term investment.. As mentioned TBTS is heavy - i agree.. ZMA is 150kgs and TBTS is 180 - I beleive 30 kgs shouldn't be a problem on a open highway.. To me, it gives more stability at higher speeds..

I'm not worried of a resale value or something - but the bike should do good atleast for the next 6-7 years.. In that sense, am more inclined to the TBTS.

If am wrong, please keep me updated..

Thanks for all your suggestions and comments..

**rx100.7050** · 01-12-2009, 04:25 PM

Originally posted by ananth View Post

Wow! Thanks a ton for the reply friends..

I have already tested R15 twice - I am not comfortable with the riding posture - So R15 is Out.

P220 / P200 - I hate Pulsars - Sorry for that - So, Its out of the list

And as suggested, Avenger 200 is also out of the list..

Now the question is ZMA / TBTS..?

I already owned a ZMA - so am Ok with it.. I would test drive a TBTS again this Wednesday and decide..

The only thing that keeps me slightly attached to TBTS is that, i find it as a long term investment.. As mentioned TBTS is heavy - i agree.. ZMA is 150kgs and TBTS is 180 - I beleive 30 kgs shouldn't be a problem on a open highway.. To me, it gives more stability at higher speeds..

I'm not worried of a resale value or something - but the bike should do good atleast for the next 6-7 years.. In that sense, am more inclined to the TBTS.

If am wrong, please keep me updated..

Thanks for all your suggestions and comments..

Request you to refrain this kind of statements

. You dont like Pulsars. That's it. HATE word is bit arrogant.

**Ananth** · 01-12-2009, 04:31 PM

Originally posted by rx100.7050 View Post

Request you to refrain this kind of statements

. You dont like Pulsars. That's it. HATE word is bit arrogant.

Okay, Corrected..

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