Re: An INTRO to Locomotives..Steam /Diesel Electric / Electric.

Nice post PSR Sir. So basically, they are removing the engine from the locomotive and putting in the power processing, electric drives and stuff to make it fully electric. That's a nice way of doing things. I heard from someone that even in the diesel locomotives, the final drive is thru DC series motors, is that true?

Re: An INTRO to Locomotives..Steam /Diesel Electric / Electric.

Yes The ageing Electric Loco and the Alco engine based Diesel Locos are merged into one. They take away the Diesel Engine , and transplant the electric Loco's rectifiers, regulators, switches etc , into the Diesel chassis. The traction motors are also upgraded . The full details are yet to be disclosed so exact technical info is incomplete now. The ALCO diesel Loco chassis is one of the best design of all time, and so IR had adopted it in Many of it's production units. In fact when the GE 4,500 HP WDP and WDG engines were tested , they found the tractive effort was best with the ALCO designed chassis and so the WDP and WDG Locos made in India has the ALCO chassis for better Adhesion and tractive effort .
Regarding the Traction Motors, only ALCO locos on early times had DC motors. They were DC, DC Locos, meaning DC generation and DC traction...Later it became AC, DC ie., AC generation with DC traction....with RDSO keen interest in exploring new avenues to make the Locos better AC, AC ie., AC generation and AC Traction was introduced. in late 90s and early 2000... This meant less loss and maintenance , leading to highly reliable Locos....
To give an example , earlier Locos have to come for maintenance at 1,000 Kms , when the Traction motor, generators brushes were replaced, injectors graduated, traction motor swing arms bearing replaced etc....now the Locos come in for routine Check up at 3,000 to 4,000 Kms only...

All ALCO Locos had been converted to AC, AC with in house RDSO developed IGBT controllers with 32 bit TCCs. Many Locos have also been upgraded in HP thanks mainly to RDSO and IR's innovations.

The Diesel Engine Locos are the best bet for Locos in India , wherein Power Grid Failures during Summer is frequent and Electric Loco operation is not so reliable. Even on Mean Time Between Failure rates , the diesel locos had failed LESS than the Electris Locos .With Bio-Diesel extensively used in India, the cost of operation is also now reduced.

If Power generation and distribution are taken into consideration, the Electric loco is more expensive and less reliable to operate, than the Diesel loco .

Re: An INTRO to Locomotives..Steam /Diesel Electric / Electric.

Thanks Sir, for taking your valuable time to share your knowledge.

Re: An INTRO to Locomotives..Steam /Diesel Electric / Electric.

In Train 18 ,Due to frequent breakage of window glass caused by miscreants throwing stone at it, IR had decided to test with bullet proof glass as a means of protection .The Diesel Loco Motive Works is slowly now turning into a Electric Locomotive Division with more Diesels being converted to Electric Locos....New 10,000 HP Electric Locos based on design from ABB is being explored mainly for moving freight traffic. In other countries they have found that utilising existing capacity to maximum and MUing where necessary keeps the requirement for Higher power Locos simple and cost effective...

Re: An INTRO to Locomotives..Steam /Diesel Electric / Electric.

It's a big shame that when we are getting good facilities, people are shitting over it.

Re: An INTRO to Locomotives..Steam /Diesel Electric / Electric.

Indian Railways gets its first ‘Make in India’ 9,000 HP electric locomotive! In an engineering feat for the national transporter, the Chittaranjan Locomotive Works (CLW) has rolled out Indian Railways’ first indigenous 9,000 HP electric locomotive.CLW official said that the new 9,000 HP locomotive has been made by upgrading a 6,000 HP electric locomotive, and with this movement of both freight and passenger trains will speed up. The new locomotive has been upgraded at an incremental cost of Rs 1.06 crore.

According to the CLW official, after successful validation and trials of the new 9,000 HP locomotive, the unit plans to manufacture 7 more such locomotive for freight operations. These new locomotives will be able to attain maximum speeds of 110 kmph when hauling freight. Additionally, CLW is also hoping to manufacture five passenger locomotives of 9,000 HP. These locos, of WAP-7 series, will be able to pull passenger trains at speeds of 140 kmph. The biggest benefits of the new 9,000 HP locomotives would be better acceleration reserve at higher speed and increased through-put. There is also a possibility of improving the speed potential going ahead, says CLW.

These locomotives are equipped with 4.5MW IGBT based 3-phase drive propulsion equipment. To improve the average speed of freight trains and the traffic throughput, the engine’s horsepower plays a crucial role. To achieve the required locomotive HP to trailing load ratio, a higher horsepower locomotive is required. Hence, CLW has taken up the project to upgrade the power of an existing WAG-9H locomotive from 6,000 HP to 9,000 HP power by modifying the 3-phase drives and traction chain.

The major features of car-body and dynamics have been retained. CLW has upgraded the traction motor, transformer and traction convertor to deliver the required 9,000 HP. “The bogie design has been re-validated for the upgraded power. The transformer/converter cooling arrangement has been modified,” said the official.

Re: An INTRO to Locomotives..Steam /Diesel Electric / Electric.




Mr.Piyush Goel had announced in the assembly that ICF will manufacture 160 of Train-18 in 2019-2021...However railway Officials are doubting if even a single train will be built and delivered by ICF, since the RDSO had revised the Propulsion System Specification which none of the Suppliers say is economically possible. The Train 18 which had seen successful launch and now running had been steeped in problems due to sub assembly procurement and specs. Vigilance and Anti-Corruption squad had lodged a case that procurement of sub assemblies had not been done as per requirement and bribes have been paid.
In the wake of this the Indian railways had stopped further procurement from ICF Chennai and an on going probe is still on. Few of the senior people within organisation had been transferred and the morale brought low...The ICF had been the fore runner in Technological innovation and implementation and this accusation comes as a surprise and left people wondering if this is a Witch Hunt done to discredit the achievement and to stall subsequent order...

"The specifications set by Research Design and Standards Organisation (RDSO) and Research wing in November included other items and specs to which the suppliers had objected to"...said Shubranshu a Mechanical dept., head who is now transferred to the wheel division . He was the chief Mechanical engineer and part of Core Team in the development of Train-18. He had specifically written a letter to the Ministry and Railway Board citing bribing by Vested Interest to promote purchase of the Train as Import at a cost of 25,000 Crores , while ICF had the know how to build it in house, as proven by the Two trains already made and is in Service.
The fundamental purpose of a vigilance probe in connection with sourcing of items for the Vande Bharat Express or Train 18 is to sabotage India's own semi-high speed train which itself needs to be probed, a senior Indian Railways official has said.
The Chief Administrative Officer at the Rail Wheel Plant in Bihar, Mr Shubhrangshu, wrote to Railway Board Chairman VK Yadav and says of the vigilance probe that "the purpose seems to be to sabotage the indigenous train forever and to kill initiative. The intent behind such 'fixing of officers' and creating terror is well understood."
As an engineer on Vande Bharat Express and a concerned Indian citizen, Mr Shubhranshu demanded a vigilance inquiry into the sabotage of Vande Bharat Express, the air conditioned electric multiple units and mainline electric multiple unit.
He noted that nothing incriminating had come out in the vigilance probe that started six months back on the procedural violations in component procurement for rolling out Train 18 in a record 18 months.
"What started as accusations of violating procedures against the innovative, bold and nationalistic team of ICF (Integral Coach Factory, Chennai) later evolved into a full bloom vigilance inquiry," Mr Shubhranshu said.
A retired ICF official on conditions of anonymity told IANS that the initial complaints about Train 18 were thought to be by some jealous officials.
"But now it seems it is part of an elaborate plan to sabotage India's attempts to roll out semi high speed trains and breaking into the elite club of such train makers," he said.
According to the officials, the work on rolling out Train 18 has come to a standstill, while the government is looking to import of trainsets.
At least Three Multinational Companies have complained about the revised Tender in which apart from the Propulsion Sytem, other systems like Automatic door, Braking System, and the Bogie along with Propulsion System.. Surely this attempt at re-floating a Tender on different sub-assemblies being clubbed into a single procurement and supply raises doubt about Level Playing field

" So, what started as an inquiry into alleged corruption in ICF and what was intended to create more competition and level playing field has turned out into a sinister exercise to import when we should have been proudly exploring export markets," Mr Shubhranshu told the Railway Board Chairman.
"I feel that this inquiry into so called irregularities was designed to sabotage the greatest 'Make In India' success story," he added.
Mr Shubhranshu in his letter told Mr Yadav to treat his letter as a formal complaint against Research Design and Standards Organisation (RDSO) and decision makers in the Railway Board.
"If not agreed to, the undersigned will be constrained to raise the matter to the CVC (Central Vigilance Commission) and PMO (Prime Minister's Office)," he wrote.
Contrary to media reports, Mr Shubhranshu in his letter dated August 19, 2019, to Mr Yadav said the tender for electrics for the first two trainsets was won by an Indian company Medha on L1 basis.
"In fact, two other bidders M/S Bombardier and M/S Siemens, were given counter offers as per rules, but they declined," he said.
Refuting the charge that the tender specifications were tailored to suit the Indian company, he said Siemens and Bombardier, the major propulsion systems suppliers, had quoted their rates without any reservations and also took part in the pre-bid meetings but lost out on price.
In the latest tender, Siemens, Alsthom and Bombardier did not quote despite his personal requests to the top officials of these companies while Cummins, CAF, BHEL, Medha, Titagarh and CRRC had participated in the tender.
Referring to the failure of India's moon lander Vikram, Mr Subhranshu said the Indian space agency will not be importing a lander but would continue to try till it succeeds.
"Yet, I have learnt that after much maligning of the indisputably successful Train-18 (Vande Bharat) we are thinking of importing trainsets," he wrote in his letter to Mr Yadav.
According to officials, the realisation of Train 18 by ICF is an achievement similar to Brahmos missile and Chandrayaan.
"We all know that it is not the outcome of a vigilance inquiry that kills the spirit of innovation, risk-taking, bold decision making and out-of-the-box thinking. It is the process of inquiry that does it in ample measure," he told Mr Yadav.

Re: An INTRO to Locomotives..Steam /Diesel Electric / Electric.

Following the NEWS item on IR trying to import Locos worth 25,000 Crores...The Ministry had clarified that it is not doing so, and after ICF complies with the new RDSO spec changes to the TRAIN-18 , orders will be placed for upto 25 nos., as initial order...This dilly dallying along with Vigilance probe and shifting of Key Engineers and Heads of Department does not promote confidence within ICF and expect to have delays in supply of the TRAIN-18 in future.
It is worth remembering that the entire Train-18 was designed and developed in India by ICF and RDSO and had stopped huge outflow of foreign funds , in procuring similar Trains from a foreign supplier. While a Train-18 costs approximately 100 crores each, a Similar one from other Foreign country will cost nothing less than 200 Crores. , not to forget the outflow of hard earned foreign currency...Hope the Govt., does not do witch hunting in ICF and promote the Knowledgeable Designers and Engineers , without whom, this would not have been possible.

Re: An INTRO to Locomotives..Steam /Diesel Electric / Electric.

As per News The Train18 is back on track and Indian Railways had placed order on ICF for same. There had been revision to the specification by way of amenities and safety and RDSO had chalked out the requirements and had placed the order on ICF for 44 trains of 16 coaches each. This is a Massive order for ICF , with each one costing a little over 100 crores. ICF will be floating Tenders inviting sub assembly suppliers , including suppliers from other countries.

The Three Phase Propulsion system along with passenger related amenities are to be through Tendering process. The Guarantee to run at 160 Kmph top speed , and higher acceleration , are some of the stipulation for the Propulsion system .
The amenities will include Fully Air Conditioned Chair cars for comfortable day time travel , with Automatic Plug Doors and Retractable Steps to ensure passengers safety .

Re: An INTRO to Locomotives..Steam /Diesel Electric / Electric.

The ICF made LHB stainless Steel coaches which were well received both by IR and the public, seems to be developing many problems of late. In fact as many as 14 different problems have been noted so far. From Suspension Springs breakage To modified Air Cushion failure, to Interior fittings coming apart, to HOT AXLE which was never heard of in a Passenger coach, to Speed sensor failure etc., just to name a few. The defects had been many and so bad that one or two coaches have been actually Junked and taken Off Service. Apart from these IR had complaints of WHEEL BREAKAGE also leading to a few Derailments. IR had also found repairing of these coaches difficult, since fasteners ,ie., screws and bolts used had been non standard and of poor quality. All of these problems have come up within a span of 5 Years of manufacture of these coaches.
Overall the Quality of the ICF LHB coaches had been less than satisfactory and ICF is under Quality Inspection scanner. All of this not an encouraging sign or indication, and all is NOT WELL with ICF as per IR.

Re: An INTRO to Locomotives..Steam /Diesel Electric / Electric.

To move large Volumes of Goods to all over the country ,during Lock down, Indian Railways had come up with a Novel arrangement. They have Connected 3 goods trains with 3 Locos to move as one Train like an Anaconda , with 170 + wagons . The Train is approximately 2 Kms Long and is the Life Line keeping up the supply to all throughout the Country. IR had been experimenting since 2019 for long rake goods trains for maximizing revenue earning with available facilities.

The South East Central Railway (SECR) in Chhattisgarh created history by amalgamating three goods trains as one unit of a 2-km long freight train that successfully ran between Bhilai and Korba rail stations. The nation’s most profitable railways zone SECR came up with the idea of connecting three goods trains using the latest technology of Distributed Power Control System (DPCS) where the leading (front) diesel loco (engine) can control the entire train along with the simultaneous functioning of the rear loco through electronic transmission while running on the track. With technology breaking new grounds, this novel concept in SECR of amalgamating 177 wagons creates a national record. The initiative carries multiple benefits. It saves the rail path and the crew members (manpower) besides the remotely electronic controlling of other two locos (engines) by the leading engine improves efficiency, running quality with higher transporting potential. By amalgamation the maximum number of goods trains can run on one path reducing the pressure on rail traffic

Re: An INTRO to Locomotives..Steam /Diesel Electric / Electric.

After the WAG-9 9,000 HP Electric Loco a New Electric Loco of 12,000 HP is now introduced into Indian Railways designated as WAG-12. This Loco is made in collaboration with Alstom ,a Swedish Company.
The WAG-12 is a three phase, twin-section electric freight locomotive consisting of two identical sections, each of which rests on two twin-axled Bo-Bo bogies. The locomotive is being jointly developed by Alstom and Indian Railways, and is the first Indian Railways locomotive that has a power output greater than 10,000 horsepower. With a power output of 12,000 hp, it is more powerful as its immediate predecessor, WAG-9, and is one of the most powerful freight locomotives in the world. The locomotive is being developed for deployment on the Dedicated Freight Corridors, where it will be used to haul freight trains weighing more than 6,000 tonnes (5,900 long tons; 6,600 short tons) at speeds of 100 km/h (62 mph) to 120 km/h (75 mph), essentially doubling the average speed of freight trains in the sector.


Development of the locomotive began after Indian Railways signed a record deal in November 2015 with Alstom for the development of 800 high-horsepower electric freight locomotives. The cost of production was estimated to be 19,904 crore (equivalent to 240 billion or US$3.4 billion in 2019).


The eight-axle design of the locomotive reportedly improves performance and minimizes energy consumption and maintenance costs. The locomotive incorporates special features based on the Alstom Prima T8 for operations in humid or dusty environments and extreme temperatures ranging from -50 °C (-58 °F) to 50 °C (122 °F). The cabin of the locomotive is comparatively larger and offers better comfort for drivers, especially during long-distance operations. The locomotives can also be equipped with climate control systems such as air conditioners, food preparation and storage facilities, and even a toilet—a standard that Indian Railways introduced in 2016.


The first locomotive, numbered 60001, was tested in the Madhepura factory on 27 February 2018, one day before its initial launch date.






The first WAG-12 going for a speed run test..

Re: An INTRO to Locomotives..Steam /Diesel Electric / Electric.

In an effort to carry more people and maximize earning, IR is looking up to increase the number of coaches per passenger train. ie., trains like Tejas, Shatabdhi etc., which are fast will have 18 coaches, intercity trains will have 20 and long distance trains will have 24 coaches. Accordingly the Locos pulling them will also change . Locos will either be multi units or High power ones like the Diesel Electric Bheem of 5,500 HP or Two of WDM 3 will be MUIed. Alternatively the Newly introduced 9,000~10,000 HP Electric Loco is also a viable option. for the shorter trains WAP7 or WAP 5 will be used.
To accommodate such a long train , Platforms need length and need to be as straight as possible.
Southern Railways had taken up this Platform re-engineering for the long trains during the lockdowns and many of the Platforms in main Metro cities are ready. the Junctions and in between stops are being worked on and work is supposed to be finished within the Lockdown time. Both Straightening and increasing the length of Platforms are being done simultaneously.
The ICF coaches are to be phased out and Stainless Steel LFB coaches will be used instead in passenger trains.

Re: An INTRO to Locomotives..Steam /Diesel Electric / Electric.

While RDSO is doing it's best to bring in Fuel efficient High Power Diesel Electric Locos , the Ministry is trying to go for Electrification , at a huge cost. Like explained before , the Electric traction is much more expensive if generation and distribution is taken into consideration, and in the event of Grid Failure will strand passengers and Goods on the way. RDSO and IR engineers had pointed out this few years back. Still the Ministry is going for large scale Electrification of Routes.

RDSO and DLW had undertaken a Dual Mode Loco Project and now come out with a Diesel Electric LOCO which can also work on the 25 Kv AC Overhead Electric Line.. So it can run as a Diesel Electric Loco , as well as use the overhead Line and run as a pure Electric Loco..For this they had adopted the ever efficient and powerful WDP4.This dual traction saves time on Loco Change when switching between Locos.

The New Loco will be designated as WDAP5.

Existing design of WDP4D locomotive shall be suitably modified from diesel electric locomotive to dual mode
Dual Cab 4500 HP . HHP locomotive fitted with DLW/EMD 16 cylinder 710G3B diesel engine for diesel traction and 4500
wheel HP in electric traction mode with combined AC-AC transmission and two HTSC Co-Co bogies for passenger service.
Features :
- Diesel Traction Mode 4500 HP
- Electric Traction Mode 4500 HP (Min.) to 5000 HP (Max.)
- Maximum operating Speed 135 km/h,
- Reduction in the fuel tank capacity from 6000 liters to 3000 litres
-The locomotive will be equipped with one pantograph. The pantograph selector switch will be
provided in the Driver’s desk for raising the pantograph.
Loco is under testing at DLW,
Loco No. 71000 WDAP5 nominated to DLS Kazipet Shed will be dispatched from DLW during the 2nd week of March 2020.