Best new VFM bike in India

[chinmayakar]

i dont know about technical marvel man but since i have ridden both the bikes, for me its r15 which is more stable than 220 at high speeds where the 220 needs to be tamed whereas the r15 has some incredible stability of its own....(personal opinion) i am not an anti bajaj guy but that is what i felt... I haven't ridden the ns but hearing from reviews that it looses some stability after 120... The fz with lighter weight and naked looks without any fairing stays rock stable even on 130...and starts to get a bit lighter at 140... So how come the ns loose stability at 120 when bikes with lighter weight stays rock stable... (the fz is fully modded and capable of 145 on speedo)
P.S. Please dont change the font to bolds coz i cant see them...instead change the color as you did it in blue)

220 sure is much more stable at high speeds on highways than R15. Done a lot of touring with R15 guys, and I can bet on it. Cross winds do not affect 220 much either as it does on a R15.

[Rohan200ns]

220 sure is much more stable at high speeds on highways than R15. Done a lot of touring with R15 guys, and I can bet on it. Cross winds do not affect 220 much either as it does on a R15.

but the front suspensions of 220 are very soft and gives that spongy bouncy feel .. r15 feels stiffer at high speed ..

[maverick1]

actually , my views are complete opposite ... booked ns at first thinking same as you .. then after riding and feeling ns , i got to know that duke gives a whole lot more for extra 40k ..not only power but everything in terms of a complete package ....looks are personal tastes .. there are many people who call the bmw s1000rr ugly ,,i find it beautiful though ..
let me list out what we get in duke for extra 40k .. :-
fi , alluminium swing arm , mfd , usd forks which are the same used in ktm rc8 superbike , wp suspensions , radial tyres , way better power to weight ratio , radially mounted front brake with 4 piston caliper , both brakes get steel braided lines , trellis frame , the sound , the feeling of riding a ktm in india ( priceless ) , exclusivity ,, to my eyes it looks way better than any other bike in india today ( except superbikes ) ..
note :- personal views ...

\I share the feeling to an extent, i was impressed with reviews of NS while being fully aware that in terms of tech only new tech for India it offers is perimeter frame in this segment for under 1L, i do not find any performance or any tangible benefits in three spark plug tech, but due to it sharing bottom of engine with Duke i was hoping it will be good bike for 1 Lacs . one review even showed its better then r15! i still find it good bike for 1L but not excellent and it has lost it genes . After riding it i felt it lacks most important pulsar gene which made me choose it over karizma way back in 2005, which was raw grunt backed by good exhaust note, it had that street fighter feel in the way engine delivered power while chassis and suspensions were let down. Now the new bike felt like a kitten in comparison to wild cat it was , i over revved the engine while searching for the pulsarness of the yore but could not find it. Now before everybody jumps on disapproving it , please ride the pulsars gen 1 and gen 2 ie.e 180cc ones and you will get an idea what i am talking about. I having owned pulsar 180 gen 2 missed the connection, also as someone rightly mentioned the design looks like a amalgamation of various design themes more like taking the slim form of pulsar 135 and adding the bulk in tank like duke copying the headlight design from B king etc etc. I loved the original pulsars, they had a distinct personality then CBZ or karizma, unicorn etc, and even they were sold in great numbers still a clever update by bajaj like all black engine chassis injected with lots of class and beauty, i can go on and on about the way a all black pulsar looks, to the point that when on this Monday i was in Bajaj showroom and saw yellow 200ns for the first time, after some seconds or so my eyes got fixated on all black pulsar its design again won me over. If i did not have to leave India for 4 years i would still have owned that beauty. If anyone in bajaj is reading this , please go back to genes as brand identity is the game these days.
tata while getting many things wrong has got this right, all tata's have the same genes they look clearly like siblings, they all follow maximum value for money formula, they all have maximum space in class, they all have bad build quality and uneven panels gaps basically you know what you will get if you buy a Tata, but what bajaj has done is it made a '" premium bike"' a super commuter which clearly lacks the genes of higher cc pulsars, i mention higher cc as 200ns is the current top dog in bajaj stable and all the top dogs in pulsar series were had more pulsarness then the 150cc bread butter variant and rightly so . the current 220 still has it and if they honed the existing power plant more and gave it better chassis and better shocks and bit more menacing looks in front , it will and can become a superb machine

[antz.bin]

I do not find any performance or any tangible benefits in three spark plug tech

Well, just for your info, the 3 spark tech helps reduce the cost of a 200NS by a good 6k compared to say, a KTM Duke.

More details on post #1 of Pulsar 200NS vs Duke 200 thread

For the rest of it, I agree that even the KTM Duke has more 'Pulsar'ness than 200NS. But we must accept the fact that 200NS is the future and the 'Pulsar'ness will either be lost OR Bajaj, one of the most innovative companies in the Indian 2-wheeler space will be reduced to something like RE 20 years from now. Take a pick .

[Rahulbarik]

but the front suspensions of 220 are very soft and gives that spongy bouncy feel .. r15 feels stiffer at high speed ..

yes exactly that is the point i was trying to explain.. That boat kind of feeling on 220....whereas in r15 it sticks naturally...you can feel every part of the road.... What i feel is r15 is more safer at high speeds... Maybe personal feeling....

[antz.bin]

but the front suspensions of 220 are very soft and gives that spongy bouncy feel .. r15 feels stiffer at high speed ..

yes exactly that is the point i was trying to explain.. That boat kind of feeling on 220....whereas in r15 it sticks naturally...you can feel every part of the road.... What i feel is r15 is more safer at high speeds... Maybe personal feeling....

Boat like feeling? On the straights? Are we still talking about a Pulsar 220 or some other 220? Because if it is about Pulsar 220, then I am sorry to tell both of you that you are grossly mistaken. Had you guys been talking about corners, I would agree with the bouncy *rear end* theory, but never straights.

[Rahulbarik]

\I share the feeling to an extent, i was impressed with reviews of NS while being fully aware that in terms of tech only new tech for India it offers is perimeter frame in this segment for under 1L, i do not find any performance or any tangible benefits in three spark plug tech, but due to it sharing bottom of engine with Duke i was hoping it will be good bike for 1 Lacs . one review even showed its better then r15! i still find it good bike for 1L but not excellent and it has lost it genes . After riding it i felt it lacks most important pulsar gene which made me choose it over karizma way back in 2005, which was raw grunt backed by good exhaust note, it had that street fighter feel in the way engine delivered power while chassis and suspensions were let down. Now the new bike felt like a kitten in comparison to wild cat it was , i over revved the engine while searching for the pulsarness of the yore but could not find it. Now before everybody jumps on disapproving it , please ride the pulsars gen 1 and gen 2 ie.e 180cc ones and you will get an idea what i am talking about. I having owned pulsar 180 gen 2 missed the connection, also as someone rightly mentioned the design looks like a amalgamation of various design themes more like taking the slim form of pulsar 135 and adding the bulk in tank like duke copying the headlight design from B king etc etc. I loved the original pulsars, they had a distinct personality then CBZ or karizma, unicorn etc, and even they were sold in great numbers still a clever update by bajaj like all black engine chassis injected with lots of class and beauty, i can go on and on about the way a all black pulsar looks, to the point that when on this Monday i was in Bajaj showroom and saw yellow 200ns for the first time, after some seconds or so my eyes got fixated on all black pulsar its design again won me over. If i did not have to leave India for 4 years i would still have owned that beauty. If anyone in bajaj is reading this , please go back to genes as brand identity is the game these days.
tata while getting many things wrong has got this right, all tata's have the same genes they look clearly like siblings, they all follow maximum value for money formula, they all have maximum space in class, they all have bad build quality and uneven panels gaps basically you know what you will get if you buy a Tata, but what bajaj has done is it made a '" premium bike"' a super commuter which clearly lacks the genes of higher cc pulsars, i mention higher cc as 200ns is the current top dog in bajaj stable and all the top dogs in pulsar series were had more pulsarness then the 150cc bread butter variant and rightly so . the current 220 still has it and if they honed the existing power plant more and gave it better chassis and better shocks and bit more menacing looks in front , it will and can become a superb machine

agree to the looks part.... People including me are jumping about its sesky looks just becoz its new but after a year this design will get old...its not at all a properly designed bike....unnecessarx bulk... The bike looks worst from side when in centre stand... Total messed up looks.... The earlier pulsars are still one of the best looking bikes in india... Its a simple and ageless design.. The best looking pulsar till date...is the earlier 200 dtsi... Its still a beauty....
I am going for the ns just because it has good handling, braking and a LC six speed engine... Nothing else...

[Rahulbarik]

Boat like feeling? On the straights? Are we still talking about a Pulsar 220 or some other 220? Because if it is about Pulsar 220, then I am sorry to tell both of you that you are grossly mistaken. Had you guys been talking about corners, I would agree with the bouncy *rear end* theory, but never straights.

sorry about the boat part...maybe its a bit too much...i meant its kind of a sofa type feeling...the rear bounces up a lot and the front bounces down.... Sudden direction changes and emergency braking unsettles the bike a bit... The handle somewhat feels disconnected though the bike goes straight... Its more of a lack in feedback...whereas the r15 sends you each and every road inputs to your body through the handles, seat, rear footpegs and front brake levers... sudden direction changes and brakiing is also better than 220... Yes crosswinds kind of pushes the bike but still its easier to make corrections on a r15 than 220... Only thing i dont like in r15 is rear brakes...no feedback... and are you telling about cornering on a 220 at 150kph?(bhai tumko apna jaan pyara nahi hai kya?)

[maverick1]

agree to the looks part.... People including me are jumping about its sesky looks just becoz its new but after a year this design will get old...its not at all a properly designed bike....unnecessarx bulk... The bike looks worst from side when in centre stand... Total messed up looks.... The earlier pulsars are still one of the best looking bikes in india... Its a simple and ageless design.. The best looking pulsar till date...is the earlier 200 dtsi... Its still a beauty....
I am going for the ns just because it has good handling, braking and a LC six speed engine... Nothing else...

+1
there are few bikers like you who comment about tech neutrally , i agree with antz.bin regarding suspension theory and would like to add that pulsar 220 needs slightly stiffer chassis and it will be more surefooted in corners. if some one can puts 220's engine and fi in 200ns and its proejctor's , i know its just in theory but WOW

[Satellite.kid]

I believe there's no point comparing new R15's handling with P220. R15 handles better. Period. But in crosswinds the P220 with more weight will naturally be slightly more stable due to lack of full fairing.

I would like to add my bit regarding posts that suggest that old pulsar design was better than the NS and some even suggesting that P220's engine should have been put into NS's chassis. Even when we all agree to the notion that beauty is subjective, I am confident that majority will say that NS is the most beautiful pulsar to date. And that matters a lot. I am not going to talk about what all was wrong with the previous pulsar design, I am just happy that Bajaj has finally moved on (especially from that fuel tank). Even with subjective views, the NS's design is more in line with today's standards of naked street bike designs. For example, the headlight is positioned lower OR in line with the fuel tank giving it a more aggressive street bike looks that earlier pulsars lacked. The fuel tank in NS has better knee recesses as well. And the tail is still sharper but is more proportionate now. Honestly, I do not see how some people believe that NS doesn't look proportionate! This new pulsar finally looks like a better street fighter from all angles, fear the "black" stuff or not!!

I am not going to comment on the triple spark thing which already is quite controversial topic to discuss. But more so it doesn't really matter to me as long as it works the way Bajaj engineers have made it to! I believe our motorcycle industry is entering in to the best phase slowly. I mean just look at the variety of performance motorcycles upto 250cc on offer now - CBR150R/250R, R15, Ninja250, NS and Duke! WOW. It's now more about what your budget permits you to get. There are handful of choices to make. Value for money quotient changes to every individual when you have more choices to choose from and the limit of your budget. Talking about this, the NS's value for money quotient is pretty impossible to ignore. Someone mentioned that NS only offers the perimeter frame under 1 lakh category. Tell us which other motorcycle gives you 23.5bhp of power under 1 lakh rupees and the build quality that is noticeably better than all previous pulsars ever made. NS is the motorcycle that has even the hardcore pulsar haters praising Bajaj's effort. I for one never believed that they actually put a perimeter frame until I saw the pics!

And there's no way that anyone can convince me (at least) that previous pulsar engine is in the same league as the new NS's engine which is based on Duke's. Yes, P220 may have the slight edge on top speed but that is it. That engine had to go and I am glad that KTM based engine has taken over. That's marvelous of Bajaj to do. I am glad to read/hear when people say NS's engine is unbelievably smooth for a Bajaj engine. Please understand that while somethings could be timeless, but most things have to go for advancement. Pulsar changed the fortunes of Bajaj, but the NS is for more educated biker that will actually earn bajaj more respect than it ever got.

I am glad that more motorcycles in line with KTM will come up from Bajaj. P200NS, by any means, is the right direction for Bajaj.

[Rohan200ns]

Boat like feeling? On the straights? Are we still talking about a Pulsar 220 or some other 220? Because if it is about Pulsar 220, then I am sorry to tell both of you that you are grossly mistaken. Had you guys been talking about corners, I would agree with the bouncy *rear end* theory, but never straights.

it somehow feels front heavy and the front suspensions also add to the spongy vertical movement ..it runs wide while taking corners .. cornering is very scary on 220 for a person who has ridden r15 ..nose dive in p220 while braking is also scary,, especially while turning in ...

[Rahulbarik]

I believe there's no point comparing new R15's handling with P220. R15 handles better. Period. But in crosswinds the P220 with more weight will naturally be slightly more stable due to lack of full fairing.

I would like to add my bit regarding posts that suggest that old pulsar design was better than the NS and some even suggesting that P220's engine should have been put into NS's chassis. Even when we all agree to the notion that beauty is subjective, I am confident that majority will say that NS is the most beautiful pulsar to date. And that matters a lot. I am not going to talk about what all was wrong with the previous pulsar design, I am just happy that Bajaj has finally moved on (especially from that fuel tank). Even with subjective views, the NS's design is more in line with today's standards of naked street bike designs. For example, the headlight is positioned lower OR in line with the fuel tank giving it a more aggressive street bike looks that earlier pulsars lacked. The fuel tank in NS has better knee recesses as well. And the tail is still sharper but is more proportionate now. Honestly, I do not see how some people believe that NS doesn't look proportionate! This new pulsar finally looks like a better street fighter from all angles, fear the "black" stuff or not!!

I am not going to comment on the triple spark thing which already is quite controversial topic to discuss. But more so it doesn't really matter to me as long as it works the way Bajaj engineers have made it to! I believe our motorcycle industry is entering in to the best phase slowly. I mean just look at the variety of performance motorcycles upto 250cc on offer now - CBR150R/250R, R15, Ninja250, NS and Duke! WOW. It's now more about what your budget permits you to get. There are handful of choices to make. Value for money quotient changes to every individual when you have more choices to choose from and the limit of your budget. Talking about this, the NS's value for money quotient is pretty impossible to ignore. Someone mentioned that NS only offers the perimeter frame under 1 lakh category. Tell us which other motorcycle gives you 23.5bhp of power under 1 lakh rupees and the build quality that is noticeably better than all previous pulsars ever made. NS is the motorcycle that has even the hardcore pulsar haters praising Bajaj's effort. I for one never believed that they actually put a perimeter frame until I saw the pics!

And there's no way that anyone can convince me (at least) that previous pulsar engine is in the same league as the new NS's engine which is based on Duke's. Yes, P220 may have the slight edge on top speed but that is it. That engine had to go and I am glad that KTM based engine has taken over. That's marvelous of Bajaj to do. I am glad to read/hear when people say NS's engine is unbelievably smooth for a Bajaj engine. Please understand that while somethings could be timeless, but most things have to go for advancement. Pulsar changed the fortunes of Bajaj, but the NS is for more educated biker that will actually earn bajaj more respect than it ever got.

I am glad that more motorcycles in line with KTM will come up from Bajaj. P200NS, by any means, is the right direction for Bajaj.

good post... Looks though are subjective... its true its the best vfm bike this side of 1 lakh...thats y i am going for this bike... But i still love the old pulsar 200 more... Its like the tata safari of cars... Even after 15 years it looks good

[Enthusiastic]

that is what i meant friend...longer wheelbase increases stability so as a matter of fact the 200ns should be more stable than say a r15 v1..forget v2 coz its even more stable than v1(comparing r15 coz they both have perimetre frame and rectangular section swingarm) r15 stays just rock stable even at 150 speedo indicated...even more stable than 220 which itself have awesum high speed stability... But the ns even with a perimeter frame and that loooong wheelbase it is not so stable as a 220 at 120 ... So it proves that bajaj didn't get things right else why would this happen? And i refered that fz being more stable because my friend's joeled fz crosses 140 on speedo and remains rock stable that too thinner 120/80 rear tyre and despite the bike having a simple diamond frame... Thats why i said bajaj gives fancy stuffs but dont know how to make them work...they are a relatively new company and will learn as time passes by...its been hardly 10 years the bajaj started their journey as a proper bike manufacturer...they will learn from the mistakes and it is the only indian company whose future is bright and ready to take on world leaders... Tvs having b capable r&d is just sitting idle...coz they dont have the money to play trial and error...they have to get things right at one shot...
I am buying the ns within 2 months time but i think the 200ns is a confused product from bajaj... What is the purpose of the bike actually....i couldn't figure out still...
Is it a tourer? Then why is it having poor high speed stability..
Is it a streetfighter? Then why is it having low low-end torque coz street fighters need to have a sudden burst of acceleration as soon as you dump the clutch..and that high seat will make things worse in traffic(though still to test)
Is it a track bike? Then why is it having a upright riding posture...
I still find it confusing
And you said something about a bold part in your commnent...since i access from cell, i cant see any bold letters...could you plz quote that exact part...?
And vfm is somethimg personal... All bikes less than a lakh, then ns is the most vfm bike whatever segment it maybe... And more than a lakh to infinity, its duke... What i think is duke just changed the biking scenario once again in india what the pulsars did 10 years back...and the icing on the cake is that the duke is followed by another one, the 200ns... Pulsars are made to rule...

No way about the bold part! Where did you read Bajaj didn't get perimeter right?? One link?? 120kph+ stability has more to do with fairing thats why P220 might be more stable than ns at those high speeds. Coming to what you friend say doesn't make things work. Now if my friend says he rides a splendor at 110 kmph and finds it dead stable that won't make a fact.
Now the question is how Bajaj made such a good frame with just 10-12yrs of experience in their own bike making? The answer is Bajaj employed an Engineer+Designer (Designer in an automative engineering firm is not to do with arts!! only its more of engineering involved) from worlds best automotive brand called BMW who is also responsible for creating Worlds best bikes like S1000RR and R1200GS. So that world famous engineer called Edgar Heinrich was employed as a Vice President in Bajaj who lead the team (along with Bajaj's world class engineer called Joseph Abraham) which developed the frame for P200NS and I have read all the reviews, autocars review and everyone said frame was just superb!

I agree P200NS is slightly proportionate but not from a single reputed auto expert has called it a confused offering. Straight to put its a naked-street bike with sporty look and feel. It has a smooth engine which doesn't make it a non-street-naked. It is a powerful product but deceptively powerful unlike the Duke which roars power wherever it goes!

[Rahulbarik]

No way about the bold part! Where did you read Bajaj didn't get perimeter right?? One link?? 120kph stability has more to do with fairing thats why P220 might be more stable than ns at those high speeds. Coming to what you friend say doesn't make things work. Now if my friend says he rides a splendor at 110 kmph and finds it dead stable that won't make a fact.
Now the question is how Bajaj made such a good frame with just 10-12yrs of experience in their own bike making? The answer is Bajaj employed an Engineer Designer (Designer in an automative engineering firm is not to do with arts!! only its more of engineering involved) from worlds best automotive brand called BMW who is also responsible for creating Worlds best bikes like S1000RR and R1200GS. So that world famous engineer called Edgar Heinrich was employed as a Vice President in Bajaj who lead the team (along with Bajaj's world class engineer called Joseph Abraham) which developed the frame for P200NS and I have read all the reviews, autocars review and everyone said frame was just superb!

I agree P200NS is slightly proportionate but not from a single reputed auto expert has called it a confused offering. Straight to put its a naked-street bike with sporty look and feel. It has a smooth engine which doesn't make it a non-street-naked. It is a powerful product but deceptively powerful unlike the Duke which roars power wherever it goes!

okay forget the 220f, the 220s is also stable at more than 120...does it have a fairing.... And splendor doesnt even have stability at 60kph...and you said you ride a splendor at 110kph? And the fz i am talking about is fully souped up bike and touch 145 on speedo...since i personally have ridden his bike a lot, i can vouch for the stability... The only thing which affects it is head wind since the wind blast is too much... It is very stable till 130 after which it becomes light... simply speaking, a 145 kilo bike with perimeter frame, 1363mm wheelbase and bigger tyres should have performed better at high speed.... Even rtr180 stays stable till 120 after which it creates problems... And as i said looks are subjective and there are many people who dont like the design...its too 135ish... You'll get stares for 2-3 months then everything will fade away.. The main problem with the design is the tank extensions and handlebar... Coming to the alloys, though it is nice, but i like the alloys of the discover 125st more...it looks like the ones on the ninja 250... One thing i am still buying the bike is because of its engine...other than the engine and chasis, nothing is innovative in bike... And btw auto magazines get paid to tell all good things about a bike while i dont...so i speak out what i feel...
And where did you get the info that BMW is the world's best automotive firm...source please...

[Satellite.kid]

okay forget the 220f, the 220s is also stable at more than 120...does it have a fairing....simply speaking, a 145 kilo bike with perimeter frame, 1363mm wheelbase and bigger tyres should have performed better at high speed.... Even rtr180 stays stable till 120 after which it creates problems... And as i said looks are subjective and there are many people who dont like the design...its too 135ish... You'll get stares for 2-3 months then everything will fade away.. The main problem with the design is the tank extensions and handlebar... Coming to the alloys, though it is nice, but i like the alloys of the discover 125st more...it looks like the ones on the ninja 250... One thing i am still buying the bike is because of its engine...other than the engine and chasis, nothing is innovative in bike... And btw auto magazines get paid to tell all good things about a bike while i dont...so i speak out what i feel...
And where did you get the info that BMW is the world's best automotive firm...source please...

Please understand that this is the first attempt of Bajaj with the perimeter frame. They can be forgiven if they don't get it right to someone's standards the first time. See, even Yamaha upgraded the R15 with a better and new swing-arm and wider tyres to make it more stable than its previous version. And I believe even minor tweaks were also made to the frame. Now you ride the new and previous R15s back to back and you will notice how the new R15 is more stable and more confidence inspiring at any speed. It doesn't mean that the previous R15 was bad, it still is bloody good. So believe that Bajaj will also sort out number of things related to design and/or chassis when they decide to upgrade NS. There's no need for so much disbelief if NS feels slightly unstable at a particular high speed. In all this, you are forgetting that this perimeter frame is also the reason that NS is the best handling pulsar to date.

Honestly, I am surprised that with all these apprehensions you are still going for NS