which country you are talking about........ don't just throw stones in air....... to start with Taiwan is having the best health care system in the world.........

but then also if you ask....... my personal view........ when you are driving on highways, and your new bike won't go above 125-130kph, because you have been driving for last 4hrs under blazing sun, maybe then you feel the need for little more power, with better cooling system for the engine in your bike.........

he he...... bridal shower present....... maybe people are not getting new word......

pun intented mate. and words hurt i know :P

How many Motorcycles do they manage to sell that the extra 117-118% goes to someplace which is in dire straits for some green bucks.
and local manufacturers? oh come again, if this is the way whole world would be thinking, we would be having Honda's even in Greenland.

and as a FM for Indonesia, i would make sure I charge 110% for every Pulsar being sold over there. let my local Motorcycle manufacturers flourish, why should my countrymen pay Indians?

Would you guys wait(and if you decide to wait, kindly guesstimate for how long) for a home-bred manufacturer to come up with multis or would somehow do something(dunno what) to bring down the taxes.

The guys who can influence decision making or such are already rich enough to not be bothered by these 100-200% mundane taxes.

India and Indian function very different from rest of the world, so comparisons in any form isn't good and why don't we direct our energy towards one goal(tax or influencing local manufacturer).
Unity is Strength.

From 350's (RD) we have come to 150's and 220's simply because people did not buy enough RD350's when it was available in India (thank your lucky stars that the consumers now are at least buying the 150's and 220's).

Like inflammable had said, the manufacturers are here to make a profit and earn a living, not for charity.

In the end its all the classical demand and supply equation.

But yes, the market definitely seems to be mature for a Rs. 1-1.5 lakh, 250-300 cc product.

Do you think People up there in companies are idiots?? Do you think they are sitting like a Duck and not doing anything? Do you think that they dont know that there are few of the customers for superbikes?? The answer is NO. People up there are more smarter than you and me. They understand the market more than me and you.

You live in Pune.. Do one thing.. go out around in your area.. And ask.. how many people ever bought a helmet? And who ever bought the helmet.. how much they paid that helmet?

You can even ask from people who ride a ZMA or P220.

Once you do this task.. you will get your answer of.. demand for Superbikes.

Bajaj is working for next generation of products. Product development takes time. If they happen to come out with product hurriedly.. then also you are going to crib.

The stake in KTM is a long term strategy and they are leveraging the technical capabilities and establishing synergies. Wait for sometime.. Hold your horses.

Do you think all the products of Kinetic were Success stories?? Think Again.

All LML bikes were disaster.. except 100cc Freedom. Go and find out again. Grapter and Beamer were total disaster. And heavy investments made in launching Bikes brought down LML.

Tell me... TVS launched 160 RTR.. and then they launched 180 RTR.. Did you simply go any buy the bike.. Because as you said customers will keep coming back if there is sensible upgrade. And there is indeed difference in dynamics of 160 and 180. So by that means.. every 2-3 years there will be good upgrades..and customers will sell their bikes and buy new one.

Its a bike.. not a Mobile phone.. which they will buy after seeing a new feature. Think practically.

I read about this guy.. He did that in 2-3 years..

Ok.. now this is impressive.. Bajaj can take 220Fi engine.. and develop parallel twin.. and there is no huge cost involved... Wow.. And can use same fuel injection.. connecting rods.. oil pump and gear box too.. Kamaal hai.. Tune to poora engine bana dala ek Paragraph me..

And on top of that.. put that engine in same Chassis too.. and Bajaj should give the option of Retrofitting the Engine.. (Try to explore space in 220's chassis.. )

Do one thing.. I will give you a task.. Design a Spring for me.. A helical compression Spring.. which can sustain 1 billion compressions.. with no signs of fatigue.. or deformation.. And can consistently work at temperatures above 100 degree C. The spring is to be used for Valve opening and closing. The Outer Dia has to be .75 inches.. Use suitbale material. (I have written this in simple language.. so that everyone can understand)

use this link for help - Spring Terminology and Definitions -* Engineers Edge

Come back to me after one month.

On a lighter note.. You actually Highjacked bajaj.

Perfect. Besides riding fast on straight road.. 90% people will never use the full potential of bike...and same people will never Hit the track too.

Ask how many people can actually corner well on bike..

Neat consolidation of major points..

Add to that the insurance cost. I dont know if people know over here that.. Insurance Companies in India have identified P220 and R15 as the bikes most prone to Accidents. As people ride them fast and insanely and subsequently there are good number of accidents on them. So we see some reluctance from some insurance companies while renewing the policy. (This info comes from a senior guy in an insurance company.. who is also quite popular on xbhp)

Now think a about a situation.. superbikes means high speed.. and so as the notion insurance companies have developed.. by that means.. Superbike insurance is going to be pretty High.. Are the guys ready to shell out Real Good amount for superbike insurance?? ANd its mandatory as per law. If you happen to drop or crash superbikes.. its going to be costly affair.

In abroad too... the insurance cost phenomenally high... which is also a deterrent to Superbike sales.

Even right now.. people keep cribbing about Costly spares of Karizma.. Remeber.. as the people who own Mercedes say.. Its not difficult to buy a Mercedes... But its dificult to Afford a Mercedes. Similar its going to get with Superbikes too. The maintainance is going to be high.

Look at it this way.. a normal servicing of Ninja can set you back by 2000Rs. For Ninja 650 its going to be more expensive. And even replacment of some regular parts is going to come heavy on pocket. Seeing all thing.. would you ever think of buying a Superbike again?? Also remember.. Bike manufacturers also try to recover development costs from After Sales. So if the volumes of bikes are lower.. the spare parts are going to be expensive.

INflammable ...you are dead right on target ...bingo is the word....guys i have been associated with auto components since 2004 .....i own a ninja ......but the ride to it was from my 150 classic was long and weird......no doubt there is a whole generation of bikers growing ...but the project feasiblity is the word with both bajaj and hero honda being listed companies and gotta answer their stake holders ...

got me a whole month of paper work and even HDFC didnt approve the loan and the kind of paper they were asking,man it made me laugh at them. so than i took a personal loan and bought the bike.

the ground realities are different.

its simple the market research, product launch feasibility,commercialisation and the r & d issues, business sense by inflammable are absolutely right . these guys mean business and the real sentiments of bikers come second for them .They care shit about your feelings man.

from a very close friend of mine who works for yamaha even they have shelved their plan for 250 cc and will be launching more products in 150 with a scooter in pipeline too.

250cc is an experiment if it went well then only we can see two wheeler market maturing up which is not coz there are lots of factors regarding finance, infrastructure, business sense, our parents not approving , market response,localization of service and spares.

so there is only two thing we can do either pray or second make our own superbike which is a very very very tough task.

but one thing BRAVE work from bajaj.

5 years & landed up giving up his job!!!

of course due ........ he he he he.........

the guys are sitting there under their roof thinking, why to do this........ I didn't got it easily, so let them pay higher........ pun intended.......
but of course, India works in different way........ n we have plenty of example for that........ no product dies in India........ every variant of a single product is available in India with different names........ so, we have to do it differently..........

I don't know whether they are stupid or not........ but I very much doubt those people are smart........ they have lost their guts to take risks........ as per your example you mean to say that when CBZ was launched for the first time, the market had matured for 150cc ......... u wanted imply that when P150 & P180 was launched, there was huge market for 180's......... so we can assume that when 220's were launched, they were instant hit among the youth and they were selling in huge numbers........ I very much doubt you points dude........
regarding P220 n Zma........ in my office parking area, its filled with 150's rather than 100's and u'll find good number of 220 n Zma in the parking lot......... people are buying and using them dude........ u'll see lot of 220's n R15's on roads........
regarding helmets, please leave home or office just before peak hour, so that Police can stop any1 on road and there will be no issue with traffic congestion........ there you'll see Police will charge 100Rs fine for crossing the white line when the red light is on, but nothing for not wearing the helmet........ Police will charge for no-entry even for 10m n not for helmet........ n if you r in 220 n R15 n Zma with helmet, the charge will go up......... you'll see people wearing helmet in Kolkata, Delhi n Bangalore........ but not in other cities......... please try to find out.........

Bajaj is sitting idle and until it faces some serious threat, it'll not bring any good product from its own stable........ it'll again bring some 250cc in next 2years and again wait for 10 years........ n its not us who's cribbing........ Bajaj's products were failing and its the commuter section who were cribbing........ so, better ask the commuter section why they were cribbing........ not us, not me.........

[QUOTE=inflammable;465609]Do you think all the products of Kinetic were Success stories?? Think Again.

All LML bikes were disaster.. except 100cc Freedom. Go and find out again. Grapter and Beamer were total disaster. And heavy investments made in launching Bikes brought down LML. c

its not possible for a single to have all successful products....... but there were many successful products from their stable........ as mentioned earlier, if you can provide service and spares to customer, they'll just move to some other manufacturer and that happened with both Kinetic and LML........ as for LML, their scooters were very good at that time........ their bikes were not that bad......... in Overdrive they were praising Energy in every article........ Freedom proved instant hit among the commuters........ they s^&*#d big time with Graptor n Beamer, even their radical design was not soothing to eyes......... so just 3 products failed and the company went bankrupt......... don't you think it's just little too much to digest........

hey dude we're talking about good n better products....... not just 20cc upgrade....... if we were happy with these 180's n 220's, then this thread would have been dead by now........ we're talking about bigger products and not just 20cc upgrade........ n I'll never buy anything less than 200 as for personal opinion.......

he named his beast Musket....... he took big time help from his neighbouring mechanic....... except the engine he had to develop everything.........
no comments on your later part........ if just providing the links would have made a bike, Aniket would have had his Musket within few months n not years........ the expertise comes from experience and not just reading websites........ here's Musket's link........

why is the cost issue coming......... if I were to spend thousands of rupee on petrol, why should it matter for the spares or the servicing........ when we're talking about bigger bikes, we're keeping the pricing factor in mind too........ there's a saying in Hindi --- Haathi kharidne se paalna mushkil hai(it costs more to maintain a premium product rather than buying)......... so, don't you think these matter little to customers........

@pads - Please ignore my points. I have no time to argue with you. You just think about yourself. Not masses. Businesses are not driven by your emotions. Grow up. Period.

Well, cost of spares and insurance is a MAJOR factor for Motorcycle buying populace spread across the globe, I don't think India/Indians will be very different.

and please avoid.......typing......like.......this

It serves no purpose.

a very blunt question here to all the people who have replied...

if you are so frustrated/ happy / suicidal / whatever with the current situation, what have you done other than discuss it out on threads??? no offence but has anyone ever tried to mail the manufacturer what he wants??? has anyone asked a tuner or anyone who is good enough to make a custom bike for him??? is there any single fella who has actually thought that "hell i will change this and make something that i want" ??

the problem is we dont want to do it ourselves. we have our own reasons (read as lame excuses) of no time, no expertise, no finance, no knowledge as to who does it right, etc etc. what we want here is "oh someone should make a hyperbike which will do 1256354 kmph and some 2453 bhpees of power, test the bike and then comment, dude how practical is it?? what if i crash it and then i have to get it back in shape?? will my parents agree?? and what not.. and then crib that "oh it could have been better"/ this is not what i expected.

cmon guys, if u really want such a thing, why not make it and post about it here. who knows, one might make a success story out making such stuff.

no1's arguing here....... if you are considering your points to be too strong and logical, then I'm disagreeing.......

please be specific about the bold lines....... n as per the costs of spares or insurance, I'm not in a position to comment about other people or people from other countries........ I just put my point in this regard........

I bought my bike, n will not upgrade till there's some real upgrade ........ not gonna fall for these 20-30cc upgrades.......... when the sale will go down, they'll be forced to upgrade.........

I'm off this thread....... enough done with typing........

A little OT:

See this: BRP-Rotax

Now these guys have been making the engines for a lot of big names. They make the engine for the RS125, the 990 Superduke, the F650GS etc.

Of course, there is nothing to connect this to our scenario but this is a way to build bikes without all the R&D headaches. Sort of like Hero Honda.

I have got a mission now. I am going to mail Bajaj...... Honda...... Hero Honda..... TVS...... Royal Enfield......., LML......., Yamaha....... etc etc.. today....... to launch......... a special......... bike for pads........ as he is........ ready to buy it....... No issues of finance....... Spare parts.... insurance......

On a lighter note somebody is actually tired of typing because Dots itne daalene padte hain... hi haath thak jata hai... or is that somebody stammering while typing...

guys, please keep aside your 7 stories high ego and don't ruin a healthy discussion here. MOD's whips are embarrassing.