One benefit of posting/discussing your views/ideas on India's largest biking forum (xBhp.Com) is that it might also be read by guys who sit in the corporate building of our motorcycle manufacturers.


Relax, gems like the R15 and Ninja 250R is already here.. the future can only be better.
So instead of cribbing, maybe its a good idea to save.

Guys we all can have a healthy discussion over this topic but lets keep it clean and to the point, instead of getting personal lets look at the bigger picture and have a healthy discussion over it.
Topics like these have been posted earlier but either they have been locked or deleted for obvious reasons, lets not get into that mode.
Feel free to express your views but in a lighter and clam manner.

Happy Posting.

agree

yeah i totally agree with payeng, noor and pulsater ...and the guys from Bajaj keep reading xbhp and its every thread and specially about about their high end products feedback ....the other day i put some issue in ownership experience regarding my ninja heating and their north head sales for ninja (i think Mr. arvind) called me up and i was surprised and he told me that they keep close watch on xbhp and its threads as it may be i think provides a wonderful feedback and get them close to feedback of real bikers and keeping market in mind too.

lets keep it healthy ...inflammable u have hit all the chords right ...we want more inputs from you.

lets keep discussing i know ...the best i can do for developing a superbike is i can give time and people i dont know if i am right or wrong but its just indian masses which is still not ready for superbikes coz of various factors.

coz u see i am surprised to see the booking scenario of toyota fortuner and other cars also but we aint seeing them happening in premium bikes otherwise hero honda and bajaj or may be someother would have launched them.

The requirement/purchasing power for a superbike has many times been compared to that of a high end car in India. We have seen international car companies launching their high end/sport cars in India with a decent success and often wonder why this isn't the same with superbikes! Why do people still shy away from buying a sport bike even when they have the money to buy a sports car which is costlier! Either this is the case, OR why do the bike manufacturers feel that Indian market is not mature enough for a good powerful sportbike? Or a do it all bike!?

The answer to the former question could be more logical than anything else. Due to Indian traffic conditions, riding a sport bike in city traffic is a BIG pain in the rear than driving a sports car, say a Lamborghini! Ofcourse, you'll be equally frustrated stuck in traffic in a Lambo as on a sportbike and would wish for a clear traffic ahead, but atleast you are not hurting your palms and fingers! Yes, the riding position of a sportbike can hurt to the hilt if you get stuck in a traffic, the clutch is not light, the heat from the fairing n all, the rising engine temperature!! In a car, it's still easy! More over in India, many rich people would like to believe that a sport car is a better show off than a sport bike! Many people would like to invest in a costlier sports car than a sport bike and manufacturers cannot ignore this mentality if they want to survive here, and this is what exactly is needed to be changed, the mentality of people and the way they look at a car and a bike!

There's another reason, riding a bike is more about being passionate than driving a car. Ofcourse, car lovers would like to disagree

To answer the second question, the bike manufacturers are not entirely incorrect. Everyone knows that riding a fast bike could be more dangerous for the rider than driving a sports car for its driver. Indian traffic conditions coupled with lack of experience of Indians with fast sportbikes only makes it worse. However, we are now having international bikes officially sold in India!

Does it make sense at all? :P haha

Honestly speaking i was a little miffed reading some of the comments and thought of using my razor sharp wit to cut through some of stone hearts here. But then i decided to take a dump and a bath instead.

Good thing i did that because getting personal, while being extremely enjoyable, is not what i want to do here. Because i am more passionate about biking than making mario get the mushroom, or whatever he needs to do to get 1up.

So here goes.

I know what i can do well. I can't design anything. I can't read much. I can't have a steady relationship. I can't do wheelies. Heck i can't even run a mile under 7 minute on the treadmill. But i can write well. so i do that. I do that because my lack of ability to make a bike on my own, which btw will be illegal to ride. From bike magazines to forum like these, i have been there and done a bit. And i will do more. I promise. But i can't make a bike of my own. sorry.

I have done a bit of riding in the past 8 years. Around hundred and 50 thousand kilometers, but still a bit because i want to do a lot more in the coming years. And i feel the need for a bigger bike, but my dad is no rich man. And am not that rich too. I don't have the 10 odd lakh that i need to buy a bike that matches my dreams and practicality. And yes i do get a little pissed at that fact. But am not ranting about the rich guys getting it all. Am no stalin. But i do have brains to see that while in the last 5 years the upper middle class hatch back segment now has enough cars to make an Autocar issue fat enough to roll it up and knock jason bourne, or james bond, out cold, the bikes are frankly not there. And that gets my goat, more than a border collie.

To all who say market is not there, losses, bikes will not succeed and so on and so off. Am assuming quite a bit of you are from software industry only knowing about 0 and 1. Now am no montek singh, but in a market some products will succeed and some will fail. Good products fail too, remember Ford Mondeo, let alone bad products. But there is always a middle ground, between these 0 and 1 of failure and success. Apache is one such example, not a failure like LML but no hit like pulsar either. Am wanting more of these examples in category of 3-7 lakhs. That is all. And there is not much there right now. Not every bike manufacturer who gets a bike here in that segment will succeed but ya as a consumer who is god, i want my options.

lastly and very personally to those who think this whole talk of bikes not there and no one thinking of us as an everlasting rant and cribbing and hapless cries. I am sorry that you underestimate yourself.
yes you read that right.
let me explain. One of my favourite teacher is a big Ducati fan. Huge. Knows the corner names of the italian race tracks and how desmoquattro works and what not. But he can't have a bike now. Old. Home EMI to pay and you know general getting old and sane stuff.
I think this want as his legacy. I want to get it for him, for me, for the people at xbhp who flood "what is your favourite bike" thread.
It is your legacy sirs. It is your revolution being fought by us ranting buffoons. Yes you have realized it is point less now to write and crib about the non availability of lady in the red, but we have not. And maybe we will one day realize it is pointless too, but by then we would have put this dream, this idea of perfectly exiting a corner on a four cylinder, in some kid's head. And they will fight for us.
Give yourself some credit that you somewhere somehow planted an image in a guy's head to desperately want a super bike. I, in some weird six degrees of separation way, owe it to you, this energy that is needed to fight this battle.

Lastly about going suicidal, i think suicide looks best on rockstars but above all it sounds best on western names. Imagine long after i have choked on my own vomit or some overdose some kid having his handle as saurabhrocks. Sounds Pathetic. I know and that too with a capital P. And like so uncool. So there Thankyouverymuch..

I know i may have spilled more of my heart here than necessary, but hey what can you do when it is about biking.

peace till the next corner then.

@fortysix - I can very well understand the point & infact, I more than agree with you on the hatchback segment compared to motorcycle. Why? 'cause I was thinking in the same lines too.

But you see, in this country, the passion or joy cannot be enjoyed by a single individual, especially when married. An example would be, people raising brows when they hear, 7L for a motorcycle? At that price you can easily get a i20, Swift & a little more you can get Tavera too. Little they know about what a HD/Duc/R1/CBR is all about. You get the point? Population!!! You not only need to fight with your friends to justify, but your own family & relatives too for getting one of those. Their point being, is it justifiable to spend so huge money on one individual when the whole family can enjoy with that sum.

Now talking about affordable, I was thinking on this evening; what segment of cars has grown? Its only the A or B level. Still the Sedans are not in that numbers compared to hatchback or small cars. What's the highest sellers? Alto/800/Santro/WagonR/Beat/Polo/Figo & soon to join Nano & Micra. You see a pattern here? Yes, they're commuters in car segments too, which ideally means, people have started buying cars, but not the life style cars or not the leisure driving cars, probably like Civic, Endeavour, Fortuner, Audi & all those biggies. Cutting story short, cars are getting affordable, but the small ones & not biggies; which is like our Pulsars getting affordable but not HD's or Duc's. Hope you got the point.

Perfectly agreed, but what to do? I guess we're all no exception sailing in the same boat too. But hey, there's something to console ourselves; during the era of Yezdi & RD, there were this 650's & CBX's which we couldn't even see them but for in movies. Atleast now, we get to see a few of the super & hyper bikes in India, but the only thing we drool & sigh looking at them. Like you said, may be, when we grow up little older, we could afford for them, but only thing being, our children or grand children could ride them. Until then, we keep working only to keep earning. The state of this country has changed, but not the tradition and most importantly, we've to live with it

Some does. And if I'm not mistaken, we call them posers . Yeah! a 150cc hayabusa, R1, etc. Misplaced passion perhaps, but passionate never the less.
I laugh at some of them. But then again, they are the ones thats living out their passion...so not sure who's the sucker here .

I can identify with forty6's frustration. However judging by "what's the mileage" culture even here on xBhp, let alone millions of other consumers. I doubt that we are mature enough.

I've mentioned this elsewhere way back, I'll just mentioned it again. Its been a little more than a year since I purchased my Zma-R. The ONLY question when anybody cared to ask me something about my bike is "What's the mileage", period. Am for one is more frustrated with consumers rather than manufacturers.

Practicality in daily use is definitely a thing.
Another answer could be as simple as the desirabilty factor! You want a superbike vs. a supercar, not everyone else does. The target market for both would most probably not be the same.
(Just a simple analogy: Not all xBhp members are team-bhp members, & vice-versa)
The entire population doesn't love bikes. The fact is, a lot of them HATE bikes, for whatever reasons. Its as personal as some of us hating cars here, calling them a CAGE or whatever.
There is one fact you missed here, a car is definitely safer than a bike, & its about personal choices/ preferences.

This is a random generalisation I'd say.
The question shows the curiosity factor, doesn't it? If someone doesn't care a damn about your bike, they wouldn't even ask that question. People are definitely curious, & its probably the affordability that holds them back. Also the fact that the general populace can't make head or tail of technical specs, & mileage is 1 thing which is definitely a deciding factor for a motorcycle purchase. I'm sure even you'd check for that, though it might not be the deciding factor for you.
Asking for the mileage (which turns out to be worse than that of their bike) could be one factor which helps them pacify themselves about not having the ride.

Are kyon ladd rahe ho. Sabhi ko apni kahne ka haque hai, Naa!

The guy, 46, just want a good new 250-300 cc bike upgrading from Pulsar range lately. No one wants a litre bike at Rs. 1.5 lakh. Heck, many would refuse it to own even if given free, given the high maintenane cost and security problems of owning such a bike.

But there are some flawed logic quoted which must be pointed out.

Sorry, I was not aware that a good 250-300 cc 4 valve normal bike is easily available through the import route at a reasonable price at a friendly neighbourhood import franchise near my residence.




Please post in simple English language term. What I can infer from above is that:


(i) Every biker must have tested every bike in every segment (150-160-180-200-220) for a considerable period of time (1-2 years each);

(ii) Must have utilized each bike for the whole of its intended performance envelop (110-115-125-130-135-145 kmph) stages, 50k + kms. each;

(iii) Must have used/ abused the bike through methods like stunting, high rpm long distance travel like at 9500 rpm for 2 hour stint at a time;

(iv) Must have been Leh-ed or Ootied or Desert-ed, on at least 2 bikes from amongst these bikes;

(v) Or must have done extremely dangerous stopies with puny disc brakes with wife and/or kids, or must have challenged the might of foolish Endeavour or Fortuner owners with their powerful 180s or 220s with Hyper Edges;>>

(vi) So as to even aspire to ask for mercy of the great Indian Manufacturers to bestow on us poor Indian souls a right to ask for their lordship to grant a good 250-300 cc bike on reasonable (not on charity prices) price with great mercy. Amen! Phew!


This is the most flawed buying discretion an average buyer can have.


Or collectievly, five bikers using five different bikes from amongst the above bikes and realising that they don't differ much in performance envelop, can share their feelings and discuss the need to have a bike better than what is available right now. Or can't they?


Just think and try to answer the question that does spontaneously come to some person's mind.

But this fellow seems to have reportedly done exactly the above things.

After 2 years of Pulsar ……got the second generation pulsar 180. …..In came P200, ……got myself a ZMR.

the ZMA was a dream come true. And I still cannot use it to the hilt. Its capability envelope is beyond my skill capacity.>>

Are you sure, OF? Kya Sir, kyon hum bachoan se mazak karte ho. And I thought a Bandit would crush ZMA with just its third gear.>>

The point of forty6 is not that he wants a 300cc bike within 1.5 lacks or something. The gap between the high end bikes and the low end bikes are too much and there are no options for any biker to choose in the middle(on terms of whatever it is, power/technology/budget/mileage/etc).

And it is not just about he not getting, It is about none of us having options to choose from between the 1.4 lac classic 500 till the 10lac SBK's apart from the NINJA. and now yes the Bandit.

Ofcourse yes the options are coming up slowly. But my point here is it will be much better in-terms of maintanence or affordability and competition if it comes from a home-grown manufacturer.

And point 2, yes we all know launching a new bike is not easy/building in a twin cylinder or an inline is not easy/nothing is easy that is all fine. But if that is how things work, then we would never have any new technology in any field. Because there is no room for a change unless a change is there to opt for in most of the cases. Like someone said earlier, there was no scope for a 150cc in our market when CBZ was released first. But what is the situation now!! I know the manufacturers aren't dumb, they also think this and they are also working on this etc etc. But the frustration of many here is that the time it is taking which can be reduced if the manufacturer's want to.

We got the 150cc's that is fine.. They took decades to move from 100cc to 150cc's. We don't want to see the same happening for moving to a segment higher knowing that it can be done earlier.

@forty6: I think you are a fan of Eminem dude

yup i am.

and i know off the topic but read in August issue of Autocar that Honda is going to launch a 250 cc this fiscal (which could be anywhere between now and march 2011). Hmmm. I will be very happy for quite a few people here.

Interesting you mentioned bandit. Because i think the CB1000R and the bandit are much more practical bikes than the litre class superbikes. But then Bandit is a hard working horse and the worst part is, it looks like one and the cb1000R is a wee bit expensive.

I will like something like BMW F800R or a 600 cc supersport.
But above all i will like to have choices between 3 and 8 lakhs.

Bhai, As you must be knowing, there is a reasonable amount of difference between an average single 300cc, a twin 300 cc, a in-line 4 600 cc, BMW R800R at technical and cost level. So better first confirm your choice.

Also, if you think that all international manufacturers would provide their full range at realistic prices in India OR Indian Manufacturers would stand up to the occasion to emulate the full international range of the bikes in India with local resources, that is not gonna happen in a very very long time.

When the Desis cannot provide a simple single 300 cc or a twin 300 cc now, how can they be present in every segment of international motorcycle range in India.

At best, aspire to get a 250-300 cc bike made with a good local content in not so near future.

I think I have put my point across. If you cannot get what the question asked, well then, quite frankly the question is not aimed at you

And yes, please post in a font size which would not require a magnifying glass to read.

Thanks

Sorry for the inconvenience. I usually type with good care but while transferring from one file to another file, these font become unstable and get reduced after it has been posted on the forum. I don't know how. Sorry, once again.

lots of answers

people since this thread started now we have everything in this thread...the anger of young biker, the market situation,problems,reasoning , good feedbacks, the problem with bike manufacturers, whats gonna happen , whats the future look like ...

but hey is there any solution to this whole thing.......