Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

This thread is really helpful and eye opening

I was also the victim of this expert "Tooner"...or let me put a better and suitable word from him "CHEATER"

I had ordered a Free Flow exhaust from him which got delivered after many months of making the Payment. I had to make calls to him endless times and every time got a standard reply "YOU WILL GET IT SOON. I WILL DISPATCH THIS WEEK I WAS BUSY WITH RACING"

FFE was delivered in a pathetic condition without any box packing, it came with just plastic wrap and two big dents and minus the decibel killer. Initial impression of the performance was good but within a few days the exhaust rusted badly from the under side. When i approached him regarding this he assured me that i will get a replacement which i NEVER got. I kept on calling him for full ONE YEAR and finally gave up. The "Tooner" / "CHEATER" always said ill give you the replacement but

I also had planed to go for the BB Kit at that time but god saved me. The tooner/cheater himself made it clear that he is not trust worthy.

My hard earned Rs. 8,000 went down the drain and i threw the exhaust in scrap and reverted to stock

Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

Ha ha ha...Apart from the NEW forging Technology, there was also the tall claim that the BB kit BORES were actually CAST as per the Part Supplier's Specification...I had queried in the R15's mod thread ," How come there is 135cc letters cast into the 165cc bore's outer ?." . ... there were many members wanting to have bores cast for their use at the Part Supplier's Casting Foundry...Alas There were no answers, but only dead silence...of-course the thread came to a dead end.
Till date I could not understand the logic behind the 165cc bore branded as 135cc...
Thank God For my Abysmal Ignorance.

Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

I think I should come here. Anyways Shv18 journey with his RC Fz-18 has ended in retrospect and what I feel about him is he is bit jumped the gun. Right from the day he met Joel and thought the only adventurous and enthusiastic tuner in India and if you turn back the pages in the whole of xbhp forums (I don't know if some of them got deleted) you can see his praise for the RC team. Even Novice and I were inspired to hot rod our babes because of Shv18's confidence and trust in RC products. Atleast he met the person and saw the products in bangalore and had even spent a good time with him but as for me and Novice it's all first time experience and we didn't even know what Hot Rodding is.

And when I had the first issue with RC guy Shv18 was indirectly in bashing mode and he wanted to stay in neutral and he even recommended RC tooner's false options like remove the Decomp lever and so on but I was on the lucky side that I had not great mechanics and my conscience never made me to take false steps. I thank Mr. Mic and Luke who were once my adversaries but turned my greatest help in my journey of hot rodding.

And Shv18 understood what we went through and the pain only when he experienced things with his own bike with the RC products installed. One thing I surely learnt from Shv18 was it's bad to tinker with the setup which got adapted with the system and I it really worked for me.

It's 10k kms now with second bore kit of RC I don't have any problems not even a single oil leak and only drawback is the mileage I get only 35 km/l and the awkward tailor stitching sound. Rest all it's the best bike to ride.

And I will tell you the power is only at the low end and mid-end and when it comes to top-end I don't think it's too much far than the stock siblings. I'm talking about my setup.

The difference is Shv18 had best of knowledge and things to happen (by the experiences of other hot-rodders who experienced and shared before he modded his bike) and best mechanics at his side and whereas I didn't have anyone and all calculations permutations and combinations done by own experience and conscience.

Two things I can clarify in accordance to my experience in hot-rodding

Shv18 ---- He did jumped the gun in the beginning but his explanation is very clear but bit lengthy. I think he must start a different thread and just make the briefings short about the consequences of hot rodding.

Joel Race Concepts ---- Why do you cheat people by lying. If you say the truth you aren't gonna lose anything. Anyways Hot rodding is not a genuine stuff. It's like injecting drugs into to athlete's body and make him perform so where's the question of perfection and reliability. I would have same love and respect for you if you were truthful to your customers of what you are doing.

And the journey continues............

Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

Though I dont have any products from any of the houses but I presume the kits from motozone will be better than semi forged quarter(term invented by a fellow xbhpian ) forged or whatever forged stuff from RC


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Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

Shv18 ..You have made another good post...It sums up the cost and Experience of Hot rodding in few words. When the question of reliability comes, the RC kits are dead ducks...I had been at the receiving end of many "Tooned" bike owner's, tale of woe . Even recently we have seen many pictures posted of shattered pistons, Twisted Con rods, and destroyed engines which needed complete strip down and rebuild...I am Happy that I can now direct them to you for guidance and help.
Many of the engine "Tooning" , for instance ,for an increase of just 10cc in displacement a change of carburetor from 29mm to 32mm is done...for what ? these bikes have absolutely pathetic low to mid performance, and is also a Gas Guzzler with poor FE..and such bikes are a pain to ride in the city, with power up only at Higher RPMs ..
When an owner of Tooned engine has problem(read engine Kaput)he is lucky if there is any response, from the parts supplier..at best another similar part will be supplied, or worst still defective,and non compatible parts will be sent to show that he is responding.
We have seen all of this repeatedly throughout many forums and threads.

For every One Affected owner who had come out into the open and reported the problem, there are 10 or more who had suffered silently, and had gone back to stock. Many had actually stopped posting of their experience once they had problems, and silently slipped away.

This thread had been Objective and had very clearly shown the Pit falls and Hair raising(and Loss) experience one has to go through while doing Hot rodding .

Thanks Shv18 for a thorough and detailed account of your Experience in Hot rodding...I did learn a lot .

Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18


Mate, I would like to just make a point using a few words from what you said, if you would have read the whole thread you wouldn't have said this.
So, in respect to RC winning podium finishes and motozone not being there,
RC is basically a firm that sells products intended for race use or track use. And in a race or track oriented engine or parts, long life is not something you want.

Now,Ask any RC customer, the feedback from them in the initial 1000-2000kms will be all praises, and now guess much does a race bike cover in kms before going for a complete top to toe rebuild ? Lesser than the above mentioned period.

So, i guess now you know of the difference of why the "race" products fail to give the reliability of what one always wants, (honestly, asking stock like reliability from a hot rodded engine is a bit too much)

I have no experience with motozone, but from what i can see and hear, they have great after sales support, which clearly for RC,is not the case. Another point on why motozone feels much better.

Modding a street bike which you use on a daily basis, what would you want of it ? A mod which makes the engine lasts long and gives more fun or a mod that give you initial fun and totals the engine in a few thousand kms ?

Another thing, this "plug and play" claim by RC is something which is purely misleading,i know because i have gone through that phase, so has many people here, and "bullet proof reliability" motto of RC is being crushed with each passing day, so it really should make you wonder how good they are on the street rather than on the track.

Lastly, RC is now more concentrated on cars, and lesser on bikes now a days, that in my opinion is a half -ass approach to their biking customers. Would you call that reliable after sales service ?

P.S: I was a RC customer, used the RC ffe on my bike for a long time, and i am not a motozone customer. So my words are solely based on my experiences.

So, my point being, just because they have won podiums and races, doesn't mean they are equally as good in bikes which are used on a daily basis in the real world.

Hope you get what I am trying to say, and take it in the right spirit. Just like you, i have no intention to spark a fight.


Cheers
Ride Safe
Krishan

Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

This was a privately funded hot roding project. If someone is willing to provide me funds so that i can get hold of the NiCaSil kits and the rest of the parts from Motozone, i don't mind! I was all gung Ho about going ahead with round 2: NiCaSil kits till I sat with Mr. Vikram and he only advised me not go ahead with any further investments on my bike.

The reason being simple maths:

* Rs 75,000 (Price of the stock bike when purchased) + 40,000 (Tooned kits) and spares + Say a figurative amount of another Rs. 30,000 - 40,000 on new BB kit from Motozone + stock yamaha spares = Rs. 1,45,000/- So if i add another Rs. 5,000 - 7, 000 bucks, i could have purchased a brand new bone stock KTM Duke 200 by now!

* Now let's look at it from this perspective: Cost per BHP increment over a stock bike. It roughly equates to about Rs. 10,000/- + per bhp gained. It would jump to Rs. 15,000 - 20,000 per BHP if i go ahead with the NiCaSil kits. I don't have unlimited resources to carry on with this project my friend. Hence, the decision was taken to revert to stock and moving onto a higher CC bike and then continue pursuing hot roding but this time with reliability factor in mind thanks to the experience and knowledge gained from the earlier stint.

If any of the readers went ahead purchasing the kits from the seller without waiting for a long term report from my end, I believe I should not be the one to be blamed in this regard. Otherway round as an individual rider, they should have consulted with other senior riders and done more thorough research by digging into some of the older threads on xbhp itself before plunging into the scene. You will be surprised with the dearth of information that exists here.

I remember reading one thread from two strokes, where one gentlemen had successfully installed piston kit from a Suzuki Shogun on a Yamaha RX 135. Hope this clears your doubt.

If it spares you the trouble I went through, I am happy for you mate.

Thank you for your kind words. But i believe all of us owe a sincere thanks to other senior riders who have contributed a lot of technical inputs on this thread and the moderators as well for being patient and willing to listen to the other side of the story.

Look what i got after i purchased kits from a Race Trophies winning guy!!

The change in opinion about RC Vs Motozone experience was not without facts and figures my friend. Please go through this thread again and see all the information being laid out in front of you. If winning a race on a racetrack is the only benchmark for being a good tuner for street hot rods, i completely disagree. What pissed me off the most was not the failure of kits but rather the way i was misled only to make a few extra bucks and no after sales support even though i was assured right before i went ahead with these kits. Even though Motozone charged me for the work done, they were upright honest regarding what i can expect in terms of gains and losses and i could see instant results in front of my eyes in comparison to the endless no. missed calls and emails being sent to the Tooner all in vain. How can one not acknowledge that?? The same has been shared on this thread with you gentlemen as well.

You too have had a fare share of seizures, so tell me if the guy is so good and the kits are supposedly "bullet proof" howcome two BB kits failed one after another in a short span?? That's because the kits are shoddy!! The reason you were not charged anything extra for the failed kits in your bike is because the Tooner will go to his supplier and ask for a fresh replacement kit free of charge.

The prime factor here is not the money spent but honesty and after sales support.

Now coming back to Motozone: If they wanted to make more money they could have simply asked me to pick up the new NiCaSil kit from them for my FZ and in the due process make quite a lot of bucks! Instead, they chose to be honest and suggested me not to spend anything extra on my FZ. So my personal experience with Motozone yielded results and i am a happy customer. Don't know about others.


Hope this clears out any lingering doubts..

Cheers,

Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

With outmost respect, kindly read the posts again as what @shv18 trying to say.
Point 1 - RC is no more reliable.
Point 2 - He never promoted Motozone.
Point 3 - Why do you want to know if Motozone won any race trophies?
Point 4 - Team Torque - another RC?

Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

[MENTION=32641]shv18[/MENTION] Are you saying that Motozone can offer you similar performance levels that of RC while having intact reliability????. No offence- Why don't we see machines done up by Motozone winning race trophies?. I have no clue as to what is Motozone (Just a mod shop?, A high spec bike garage?, Or anything other). Ever since you started having niggles with RC prods and started afresh with Motozone, you have made an complete U-Turn and boasting about them . Lets consider Motozone being more efficient and extracting more from less but have no long term testimonial about their prods either. Maybe they might have an upper hand on reliability levels but not in performance figures. And yes, for someone who expect their daily ride to have more grunt, they would more likely prefer it to be bullet proof in terms of the prod life. I do not intend to spark an explosion. If you know what I mean

Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

[MENTION=32641]shv18[/MENTION] Thanks a lot for every single experience you have posted in this thread. A friend of mine satisfied with the tooner's exhaust had thought of going all out with the RC kits on his FZ-S. Sent him the link to your thread a few weeks back. Needless to say, you saved him from losing a lot of money and peace.

Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

All i can say is thank you for saving me from a great disappointment.I might have gone for the rc kits if i hadnt gone through this thread.



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Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

Mr. Vikram's number please

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Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

I'd differ a bit here. He never advertised RC or Motozone. This thread was always about experiences. Right from planning, procuring, installing, testing and final result.
All seemed ok initially, hence he was happy. Only when niggles crept up, did he get alarmed. Also, due to some reason many riders who suffered with blown up RC kits started turning up only recently. Everyone was mum earlier.
His thread has been the most noob-friendly piece of "book/bible" for beginners and enthusiasts alike. Same goes for Motozone. He's happy with the results so far and he keeps testing the machine frequently to post results.
The most important thing I or anyone can learn from this thread is that "you'll get a 25% boost in power with stock/bullet proof reliability" is a big lie! Irrespective of the tuner/tuning house.

Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

[MENTION=29396]shiv[/MENTION]18: its hard to digest the fact that you have gone through all these after using RC's kit,FFE etc. Hope your bike is doing good now.

When I started reading this thread, I felt that you are one of the happiest customer of RC. As I kept on reading, I could see sudden twists and turns of your attitude/opinions towards RC. After seeing your initial reviews about RC products, I am sure that many would have opted for RC upgrades. Now after seeing all sorts of troubles which you have faced, they might be having the fear of engine seizures even if their blocks are running fine. So I guess you might have mislead few fellow members by your initial reviews.

Now coming to the second half of your journey with hotroding, happy to hear that your needs are now being fulfilled by Motozone. I would request you to clock some good number of kilometers with Motozone's set up and then post your reviews in order to avoid the twist and turns for this thread again. Hope Mr Vikram would not be at the recieving end one day

Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

Well,

You now have a thread to tally the data shared VS the word of mouth press you had heard about Tooner. If at all you are still keen on getting safe but higher performance from your vehicle, the only thing i would recommend will be the Head porting and polishing work and the Street high lift camshaft from Motozone along with their race CDI. It will change the way your vehicle shoots past 100 kmph and beyond in no time.

Well thanks for coming forward. if possible do share your experience in detail with us all. I will try and share whatever i have learnt whenever time permits..


Sir,

the objective of the thread was to educate people and also save Noobs from getting sucked into the marketing tricks played out by someone we all are well aware of by now. If fellow riders like @Ishwor have been able to grasp the true essence of real hot rodding vs snake oil products and somehow this thread has helped riders like him from losing their hard earned money.... i believe it is well worth all the hours i put in writing extensive piece of experience on this thread!!

I don't want anyone else to suffer the same faith a lot of disgruntled riders have faced. I was the lucky one who was spared of the unthinkable faith of engine seizure!! Thanks to the constant flow advice from riders like @psr and [MENTION=26077]abhimanyu31[/MENTION] and also consistent effort from Motozone to help me trouble shoot the problems.

Sir the last i heard from the CBR owner, after installing the reworked CBR head, he was witnessing 134 - 137 kmph+ speed runs in under 500 mtr runs. As per the calculation of Mr. Vikram the stock ECU was able to handle the slight changes in fuelling without leaning out the fuelling in the CBR 250R.


Cheers,