Bro lemme get back to you about the cam noise thing. I am waiting for the rocker arms and a few more parts to be available at the counter then i shall start my build. If i also witness the same cam noise issues like you are then we can safely conclude that this is the after effect of using a mild lift cam. However, If the cam noise dies down significantly or becomes non-existent post run-in then i would pin-point the problem to replacing some of the key components which handle the cam and the valve assembly.

Anyways, all this is just a speculation. Let me get hold of the pending new stock parts first!!

Cheers,

NOISY distribution!

Hi bros,

You had sent me a PM, shv18, about the noise and other problems of this camshaft OR decompressor, to which I replied lengthily, but it seems you only got a truncated message.
Never mind. I think that this discussion should be on the open forum and not become "secret" through private messages.

The distribution on my bike has become awfully noisy!!! It is a very distinct sound even with the full face helmet on, a loud click-click-click of rather high tone, something different from the sound of too much play of a rocker. It is mechanically impossible that such sound does not mean "some" excessive play, or some non normal movement of "something" (???). After quite some city riding this morning, I was feeling embarrassed and ridiculous with this "baby-super-bike" doing this awful mechanical noise while besides that looking so great and perfect! When cold, on the morning start: no noise but a very discreet one only....???!?!??!?

The decompressor, as you mentioned after discussing this problem with Joel - because it IS a problem! - could be caused by that system that would not be functioning well with this camshaft. Possible.... but I doubt it. Effectively, this decompressor mechanism only does something when the engine is on very low revs (cranking). Even kick starting makes the engine rev enough so that the decompressor is not active anymore. I found that trying to measure the compression with the special equipment for that. Trouble is that this noise, although not as loud, also exists well above idling speed!

Anyway: the only way to make sure is to take off the decompressor mechanism in it's whole.

Trouble is that, with the RC camshaft now fitted, the bike is far from starting as well as it used to with the stock camshaft. Only when cold does it start immediately, at the condition that I do not even touch the throttle. Otherwise: BANG: back fire! Then, when hot, not only can't I open the throttle at all, but the engine has to crank again and again, and it also does occasional misfiring (back firing): lousy start, to say the least (and yes: spark plug is perfect, thank you). The starter clutch, which I have just changed (thanks, Pratik!), is not going to live long with this!!! I then effectively worry that, would I remove the decompressor, this back firing may become even more powerful and destructive. Might in the other hand make starting easier...???!?! (why not?)

So, I am just as puzzled as you are. This (apparently well machined) camshaft does improve the performance that little bit more, now making my bike just what I would have liked it to be straight out of Yamaha factory (no comment!). I can over-take the big articulated trucks in a glance, the engine revs up happily and delivers very good power for this "only" 205cc. capacity. Still on the very edge of what the clutch can cope with, though: not long before it will start burning again, I am afraid! I feel, from what I read here, that I have a good lot more power than what you guys have with your 180cc. RC kit, but only measuring it and comparing with shv18 results (the long promised ones!) will enable me to ascertain it.

So, I shall let you know what I find, and also look forward to your findings and conclusions.

Thanks Luke for the PM... i am collecting feedback from everyone on and off xbhp to figure out how many have witnessed the cam noise dying down as they have clocked kms in their respective tuned up rides.. Out of 10 respondents.. 3 have confirmed that the overall noise has gone down by 80% not completely but now the noise is very less. That's why i am a bit puzzled.. Anyways i guess during the build stage the actual thing can come out. I am still in two minds whether i should keep the decomp unit installed or get rid of it or if i also witness the same whirring or clicking noise, should i accept it as a part of the tuned up bike

abhimanyu31 is confident that this thing can be sorted out at the build stage itself.. so lets see.. Yes i know i have promised you guys a detailed log of everything.. just waiting to get my special date with the mechanic and off we go!! I would like to thank abhimanyu again and again for patiently responding to a lot of my irritating queries and obviously control my over excitement to get things started..

Cheers,

Hi Luke

Thanks again. Now about the cold start issue, I don't open the throttle as I used to do earlier, I think as the time has passed it has got well instead I need to just long press the start button and the engine comes alive. My problem is that the bike is vibey. In stock setup, I felt some vibrations somewhere but let me tell you, with stock bike I couldn't hear any noise except the chain sound and the very mild cam sound which could be heard after 5.5k RPM and only with helmet put on my head.

Now coming to big-bore, just open the helmet and ride a few meters and you can see the tailor stitching cam sound going wild and if a bystander hears that he will think that the bike's engine has gone kaput. Sometimes I got to unknown mechanics in emergency for simple works and they say "Did you mess up your new bike?"

What I enjoy with this big-bore kit is cruising at speeds say 90-110 km/hr and in this range I don't find any problem, I feel very comfortable and before that it's very vibey.

Riding in traffic is so boring, I feel like changing everything to stock. It feels like cylinder kit gone kaput.

And since Joel has been on this setup for three years, I think he has to spill out what is what because he knows better than us all and what we talk here have no prominence but just imaginations until the truth is revealed by Joel.

The cam sound is very irritating and also the vibes. In 4-4.5k RPM just release the throttle and you can see the vibes all over your body. Sometimes I feel that I have messed up my new babe but I get compensated when I cruise above 100 km/hr range speeds.

Nothing has done any good about mileage. I'm still getting under 35km/l in city conditions. I was expecting something above 45 km/l with the God-margin tag and if I'd knew the current case then I should have gone for 223cc Karizma. Anyways gone is gone, we need to look into the future.

Reading about those who have installed the RC cam and the associated problems, I would like to hear from Joel himself about this matter.
It seems to be common and it is very obvious that no one is happy with the sound it makes yet you are accepting it? Is it because it is a RC cam?
If it was a cam from another company, would you be accepting it or complaining more louder, Like the owners who's big bore engine have seized?

In a way I'm glad I didn't get the big cam.
I hope this issue can be engineered out by RC in the future.

Totally agree that Joel should be summoned to come in and explain publicly what/ why/ how is this noise generated. And no commercial B.S. like "it will will disappear with time, no worry": we want a mechanical, understandable clear explanation, no side tracking and escape.

We are not "accepting it" - or at least: I am not!
Anyway, there does be an inherent problem with dealing with Joel Joseph. Race Concepts: his silence!
All the Indian posters here are "communicating" with Joel (means: when His Majesty Joel Joseph dares replying...) and have asked him to answer to this problem, which he did by "accusing" the decompressor (....as I said: I do not buy this explanation!). Nothing clear. That it will "ease with time" sounds like an just as unreliable answer too.

There is no "RC devotion" as far as I am concerned, and, in the light of PMs I have received as well as this last post from Jonahmano, I am not going to bother anymore with this camshaft, not going to try and mess up with the decompressor, not going to risk f***ing up the starter clutch at high speed, not going to accept this lousy start anymore, all that for effectively some little power gain while I already had good torque and power, and just take off this "RC" camshaft. It will just be one more piece of junk, that will join others like those delivered by Haryono Adigunawan of automotivespartsshop in Indonesia.

For now, Mr. Joel Joseph, and until you come in and prove the contrary, I consider your camshaft as CRAP!!!!

Come on up!

I don't mind if any one imposters me in the league of Joel's bashers but I want to be very frank, cut and clear in what I speak and at the start of the modds, I told you guys that I would be giving true unbiased review and to support that I have tons of emails exchanged between me and him.

The matter is that all Joel products are costlier compared to the genuine stock products. The fact of the matter is this big-bore or whatever signature-d by Joel is nothing but trial and error thing. It's been three years and there is no bench-mark set. If this is the case then the race enthusiast shouldn't have encouraged people like me to mess their new bikes. By reading Joel's posts and his hospitality, I thought I was just adding more protein to my babe but it turned out to be poison.

Actually I'm still bewildered about the real setup. For some guys he just fits the big-bore with camshaft and for others he does the head porting, fits the carb with big-bore kit. My question is Will the big-bore able to be fed by the stock carb? And if it does, is it not harmful in future?


Let's take the carburetor as example, He fits TVS Apache 180cc Ucal Carb with main jet of 125 size for Rs. 3500-4000 whereas the Bajaj 29mm CV Carb with the right jet of Size 117.5 costs somewhere around Rs. 2400-2600. If you get a cheaper and more compatible carb for lesser price then why do you fit the crappy Carb of TVS and make us to source the right size jet ourselves. I was wandering like a vagabond for nearly 100 days begging every nook and corner to source the jets. And what's the excuse: 115 size jet supplied by him work better on his FFE than stock exhuast and if that is the case then why do you try to experiment on stock exhuast and make the rider miserable.

I was told by him to fiddle out with my carb: One time he says lift the needle up and other times he says put it down. I think I have opened my carb atleast 7 times in 3 months time and with stock I wouldn't have even mind about it for a year or two.

My friend's Yamaha FZ-16 is 3 years old now and it's not touched either in engine head or the carb.


My stock bike never knocked but after the big-bore and porting done to the head, I can feel the knocking in every gear and for that what's the excuse: Low Grade fuel in my area. If his high compression works only high grade fuel then he should have warned me before building. Am I the culprit of the low grade fuel in my area? If that is so then why didn't you inform me in the first. You give a statement like "Nothing will happen" But many things have happened. And for compensating the high compression, he advises to put an extra paper gasket but isn't this a temporary remedy. I don't know what all I have to change when I have run the course of big-bore and change everything to stock. Certainly I need to buy a new head because it's high compression ported head will continue knocking till the engine gets dead.


I have understood that even people with FFE are switching to 117.5 size. The fact of the matter is that he hasn't come to conclusion that what works better. Thorough googling and discussion with mechanics, I found out that TPS feature in Yamaha Fz-16 bike improves the refinement of the engine by sending signals to the CDI and here we have a carb where TPS can't be fitted. If this is the case then why don't you manufacture a carb where TPS can be fitted no matter even if you charge double the cost of the stock carb.


Now coming to the camshaft, I was never informed before hand that his camshaft will make noise and I understood it only when the modd was done and the stitching sound started. I was told that camshaft sound will decrease after 500kms when you set the valve clearance, as the time passes by but it didn't. The sound is too awkward. First it was told that correcting the valve clearance will reduce the sound. I bought feelers of the right measurements of what Joel stated and tried to check for every 500 km but the sound has never come down. I wonder whether people ever touch the stock engine head until and unless something worse has happened with their bike but here with this big-bore setup, I've been led to the garage every now and then with one or other problem.

If the camshaft sound would stay on then why he has to give assurances to check on valve clearances, or rocker or decompressor or whatever crap. Just say it remains and this is how it's built. Why does he need to give excuses. Why do I need to change any parts of a new bike? A noob can understand this.

My bike is new, I have spent around half of the money of the entire project for travelling to him so that my bike would be build perfectly. I had to open my engine more than four times for one reason or the other. You may say that has to be checked or this has to be checked but with the new bike what has to be checked? Everything is new there and if some parts have to be changed to meet his excuses then he hasn't done proper homework in these 3 years.

The matter is the bike has transformed in power gains but in the refinement and perfection, Joel's big-bore project is a big zero.

I really broke my head thinking about this crappy project and sooner or later I would be changing everything to stock.


Finally a well known tuner or mechanic told few valuable words. "On a race-track it's easy to ride these kind of souped bikes because the only thing you have to do is rip her hard but when it comes to street biking nothing can come near the stock" and with experience I fully agree with him.


After reading all this still if you guys think that I'm bashing somebody then you need to give answers to my questions. From my side I have done my full homework. A brand new bike was given to be modded by the tuner himself. There wasn't one part of bike which was ill-treated. It was brand new touch-wood. If not going for FFE was my mistake then I confirmed with him that due to the issue of cops, I won't be doing that.


And the journey continues...............

Just one correction.. Our respective FZs and Fazers don't have an ECU. What we have is a carbureted bike. ECU stands for Engine Control Unit. What the TPS or throttle position sensor does is provide information to the CDI in our bikes in order to advance the ignition timing as we raise the throttle. I guess you need to do a teeny weeny bit of more research in this regard.

As far as your honest review goes.. i believe it is genuine and as per your experience. In my case i will still not give out a verdict till i have finished my build which BY GOD is taking ages now!! If i witness the same issues and regardless of all troubleshooting the experience is not what i had expected then i shall throw in my liners.. but until then i believe it won't make any sense for me to discuss more in this regard. I genuinely wished that you had access to some of the best mechanics i have come accross here in Mumbai who would have definitely taken this build much more seriously and not made you aimlessly roam around looking for re-jetting issues and charging you ridiculous amounts.

Regardless, good or bad both perspectives should come out in the open i believe it benefits the community as a whole.


Cheers,

Sorry for that. It was a hurried mistake. Actually I wanted to correct but since you have corrected I'm not editing mine.

It's really sad to hear these kind of problems form users, never does any good to anyone.Joel needs to come up and give an explaination as Luke and Johnamano said. Racing season and all are not an excuse, after all these guys have put in a lot of money and effort in getting the parts that joel vouches for.
As far as I know, Johnamano completely undestood the risk of Hotrodding before he went in for this, but giving false hopes is not right. And so is the case with temporary fix, As far as track bikes are concerned it's alright, but in street or commute bikes, this can be a real deal maker/breaker, I bileve you too have advocated the same point in some other thread. This takes a big hit on the reliability part Joel keeps stressing upon, i'm not taking side's here, but Joel, you must come out and explain, how does these problems not be considered as reliability issues, me as already a customer and possibly again get parts from you, this is a big part i would like to see improvement.

Cheers
Ride Safe
Krishna

I can only go by my engine and since it was built, Its never been opened or had problems. Just adjusted the valve clearances1 time, changed oil, filter, got bigger carbs, CDI and refined the tune.
I had considered the RC cam but the price I got quoted I felt like he was trying to gouge me.
The only part I used from "Haryono's house of BS" was the cyl but I had refaced it so it was flat and smooth(er).
Anyway it looks like some peoples (RC) engine assembly was done with shortcuts and the lack of homework is rearing its ugly head with engine problems.

For Joel to give those BS answers about the cam quietening down after 500 kms shows a chink in his armor He is not "god" or the "guru" or whatever you want to call it, He is a businessman out to make a buck. He's got your money and thats all he cares about.
His "development" of the honda engine...There is nothing left to develop. The Japanese and Yanks have taken it to the limits already. 9second 1/4mile daily driver cars, turbo kits, insane NA kits, pistons, block guards, cams, valve train, exhausts, gear sets, diffs, clutches, Vtech controllers etc, Not to mention the suspension and drivetrain parts available.
Its all straight out of any big Japanese modifier/tuners catalogue. All you do is open the page and pay the money.
I doubt he will find anything "new" after decades of development from big budget tuning houses. Sure he sounds impressive to some who have little knowledge of what happens outside of India but for those in the know he is doing nothing special or new.

The use of factory carbs as "performance" carbs is very misleading. Is there a valid reason (perhaps economical?) for using a factory carb as a "performance upgrade"
Why does he take so long to "finish" a build (I class the tune as part of the build)
The longer this goes on the more slippery the Great Joel appears to be.

The cam has higher duration, but very marginal lift. So its NOT a BIG lobe cam.
As for the ticking noise, from what we have seen is purely based on tappet clearance going high. In some cases, even if gets tighter. The FZ-16 has a very flimsy roller arm, which valve a slight back-lash in the roller. When you switch to a higher profile camshaft, there is a constant back-lash sound. When the engine is heated, the roller clearance changes further and makes a little more ticking noise. The stock cam profile is very mild and we have seen stock FZs having clocked very high miles having very lashy rollers. Thats with the stock profile itself. On the R15, even with a lot more aggressive profile, the rollers have no back-lash. The FZ being from the more commuterish platform based on the YBR series engines - Gladiator, Libero, Crux Etc, the valvetrain is a bit soft.
There are no claims of me mentioning that the tappet sound would settle after 500kms. What I do mention is to set the tappets at the right clearance after 500kms and then once with every service i.e around 2500-3000kms.
I really hope one understood that a performance camshaft is not entirely as equivalent to stock. Any higher lift and duration over stock WILL accelerate lopey idle and slight change in valvetrain NVH. All it needs is regular clearance maintenance.

@Mad Mik - let me get a few facts right for you, IF you were mislead.
nobody claimed a 29mm CV carb to be a performance carb. It is clearly quoted as a LARGER CV carb. A 29mm is indeed a larger upgrade for the FZ-16 and is not its OEM. It is an OEM for another engine. Who cares, if it works fine.
A race carb is what most people cannot afford. Anybody who knows tuning, knows the cost of a good D-slide, flat slide high flow carb. They always cost over twice of stock. Isnt economics a concern here? Why does someone want only a larger carb and not a performance carb? I'd choose a Flatslide anyday. We have our bikes here with all the works and they run the best stuff. Thats the way it should be done. And you cant compromise, but everybody else would like to.

Coming to your part about the parts, yes we do develop and test a lot of our parts inhouse. Coming to cars now, please do not comment unless you are aware of what we do.
Right from the valvetrain to the drivetrain, all are custom. We have developed and co-developed suspension, cut our own gear ratios and final drives, build and craft our own manifold, intake systems, custom grind camshafts and pistons and tons of exhaust systems. Our test bench is our race program and we have come a long way in this regard. The engines used by us are the D-series which are NOT highly popular for tuning even worldwide, except for some budget racers. We have set International standards in horsepower with our Naturally Aspirated 1500cc D15 engine which is quite a surprise for our friends in the other countries. There are tons of ricers here, who plonk catalogue parts according to you and they are where they are. Get off the shelf Final Drive sets, Cams, etc. I have seen your comments previously on this and urge you to really know me well before you state this. Do not under-estimate what we can do sitting here in India. You claim that big tuning houses have developed parts for the Honda Decades ago, but you must understand that our particular engine has nothing much outside India. Its the engine that every punk abroad, throws out to make way for a more swanky twin cam motor. This is what we get here and we have to work our way around this. Making even more complex is the fact that our Indian Specific D series motor had a weird rod and piston height combo, which is unheard by any foreign tuning house! So that fancy catalogue does not work for our Indian engine except for a few aftermarket parts from the US like an LSD, short shifter, guages, stock replacement cams, stock replacement intake manifolds etc which can give you some tweety gains for street and nothing to set target numbers. This aint Japan or US for hot rod tuning, but we sure have the tech and resources to make things happen very much in the same land. We have had some of the firsts in this country in terms of performance parts development being a private outfit. Build close ratio gears and Final drives for the Honda D series engine, develop and build Intake manifold system, R15 full close ratio gearbox, Suspension systems, exhaust systems, partnered in Engine Management systems etc. These being solely from my area of interest and nothing more. With specific relation to our Indian Spec Honda D series motor, I have put a lot of effort in crafting custom drivetrain and powertrain components. I'm talking so much about this car thingy, coz you are highlighting this as my grey area, while I know how many sleepless nights and countless efforts are put in. Its bloody easy for someone to say that end of the day everything was easy and was ordered online and just carted down and plonked and fool a few blind people in this country?. We live in a country with crazy restrictions on automobile parts. You are not allowed to bring in anything of your choice and the cost of import and custom duty is insane. It takes a lot to take this route of tuning and build something which is on par with World standards and set bench marks. And not to impress a bunch of jokers for some false thrills!

Time and again, there is someone coming up with emotional facts over what the reality is. I really appreciate if there is a sound technical argument over this and get everyone aware of what things are. A performance cam is NEVER going to be as smooth and linear as stock, I mean in terms of profile smoothness and NVH. Let me tell you a small Ex. On our Honda 1.5 SOHC engines, in order to get a lot of NA power, we need to go really hot on cam profiles. Anything higher than a stage 1 spec profile ensures that you are going to flatten the VTEC rocker pads. The pads are usually a convex curve. Even with the most loose or tight tappet clearance or low rpm limiter, the pads are going to get flat which leads to higher valvetrain sound, but has no effect on reliability or whatever even after all the abuse you can offer. Which will never happen with the stock cam even after 300000kms. Any cam ground by any cam grinder in the world for this engine, will lead to this. With whatever profile variation you can try, over stage 1 spec. Stage one is very close to stock and has petty gains. But the hotter profile does not tamper reliability. It just remains there and does not disturb anymore.
What I'm trying to say is that, stock components are not always going to cope with performance upgrades. The point is in always finding the balance of refinement and reliability. It would be great if someone here could reason out technical points. Unless you have catastrophic failure components like flimsy connecting rods, engine bearing, crankcase, gearbox etc that cannot take any margin of a performance abuse. The valvetrain rattle as in the case of the FZ can only be controlled and not cured. We are however working on some valvetrain changes and will report on the same, soon. As per our reliability tests, we have already clocked over 20000kms and have not seen any rocker failure despite the mild rattle. 0.06mm for inlet and 0.08mm for the exhaust works out to be the more quieter clearance. However, going 0.02mm higher on both can also be tried in case you are in no mood to keep checking frequently. Unless Yamaha decides to do something about making the valvetrain as beefy as the R15. That would be a treat.
Why dont you ask Honda why the CBR250R even with a stock cam is so clattery? You pay that much for a noisy bike? But you learn to live with it, coz its that way from stock. But thats not the same case when you hot rod an engine. Everything then becomes unacceptable. You need all that horsepower, all the mileage, all the refinement and all the quietness of a stock engine. A Ducati sounds like refinement is out of the window. Something like how a 4-stroke in its worst shape with everything not right would sound. You call that an exotic! People are worried over someone calling their pimped FZ sounding like a conked Splendor?

My understanding is if you are modifying your engine, you will go for the performance parts, Not some factory part. Anyway different culture and economics in India Vs Australia. Yes there are people who like to do it all on the cheap and then there are those who like to do it properly and spend the $$$. I happen to be the latter.
I used to live, breath, eat and sleep Jap engines back in Oz, Yes they are expensive to play with an still are.

Need stronger internal parts for D15?
Build Your Block : Real Street Performance Engine Parts, Pistons Rods Cams Valvetrain and More
Engine Mangement Systems : Real Street Performance Engine Parts, Pistons Rods Cams Valvetrain and More
Bulid Your Head : Real Street Performance Engine Parts, Pistons Rods Cams Valvetrain and More
Fuel System : Real Street Performance Engine Parts, Pistons Rods Cams Valvetrain and More

Thats from 1 shop, There are still plenty more so its not unbroken ground you are walking on. I do take it with a grain of salt when people say they are developing a old engine/drivetrain and saying they have "new" parts developed for it.
Plenty of resources available online to find out pretty much whatever you need to know and how to go about it.
I'm going to guess your customers don't want to spend that much so you offer a cheaper inhouse product.

So there you have it folks, the sound coming from the head when using your RC cam is the tappets, Not the decomp lever.

Luc, I can offer you some ear plugs when we meet next, That will reduce the sound from the "tappet"

If He is mentioning me as getting emotional then certainly why not. 84k for the new bike, 20k for the modds, 8k for travelling, food and accomodation - all the way from cochin to bangalore and back home, another 5k for rebuilding (carb opened 7 times, engine head opened atleast 5 times). Summing up all these the New Karizma 225cc would cost around 92k and the new Pulsar 200 NS would have cost 95k with higher power and refinement. If someone was in my place then he would have got more emotional. Actually I'm staying very calm

It was my mistake to go for the Yamaha tag because of my love for this brand from the school days. The fz-16 with stock setup is a lazy bull and I would have sold her within a year but the only reason that she stays with me is only because of Joel's modds.

Also I wonder why Joel had to call me Bangalore when there were people here in cochin with his kits ready to be sold where I could have saved 8k and 4 days of my office leaves. Maybe he wanted to tune my ride to the best but unfortunately this trial and error kits didn't work perfectly on my bike - atleast for the first kit.

Before going for the modds I had confirmed with Joel if there was any failure with Fz-16 BB kits because at the time of my planning to modd there was heated debate going on the reliability of the R15 BB kits and I was bit worried about the outcome of some of the people with their R15 experience. And Joel assured me that there was not a single BB kit of FZ-16 going kaput but later (when all is done) I found out a fellow xbhp member spilling out the beans of Facebook Yamaha FZ-16 groups that his friend's BB kit fitted in the master's garage failed twice without even crossing 5k kms if I'm not wrong. If you need to learn business then surely it must be learnt from Joel. I also searched all the google to find the true review of any biker who would open up all the consequences of hot-rodding (especially of fz-16) but couldn't find one. All those who did the modds didn't turn up of what happened later and that was surely a big blow for me else I would have thought twice before going for the modds.

Anyways I don't want another jonahmano riding all the way from cochin to bangalore with his new bike and get emotional again.

Here's the true review of what happens and what not. Before you ever try going for the RC Modds especially for FZ-16, do read this post if not the whole thread so that you don't have to get emotional with Joel like me.


Performance:


Got to give 10/10 in this segment. There is a God-margin (in his language) bump in power. In stock the bull move like a snail but with the modds done it runs like a horse. Even my friends agreed saying that the nature of the bike has changed. One fellow was saying - With the stock something was holding up but with the big-bore setup it's free to run wild. So you don't have to worry about it. I think you will get more than what is written on the paper. The modded FZ-16 would compete and beat all other bikes in the same segment upto 180cc. You rip her thoroughly 100-110 km/hr there is no stress whatsoever seen on the bike. It will revv happily whereas stock setup will stop breathing if you rip her continuously on the above said speeds.



Reliability:

There is no guarantee of these trial and error kits if they work or not. My first kit lasted 2500 kms and when I informed this to Joel he gladly offered me a fresh block and made me start the whole run-in process again. My second kit has crossed 5000 kms and I'm still counting. And also get ready for changing the moving parts because as heavy work is given by the BB kit, the moving parts like bearings and chain kit might wear out faster than the stock setup.



Speed:

The top speed on the FZ-16 on the ODO without a pillion was 118 km/hr which is more or less same as stock (might be because of stock gearing as some people claim). But the fact of matter is - it reaches 110 km/hr in no time unlike the stock fz-16 which will tend to struggle after 100 km/hr. With a pillion behind, I could go till 104 km/hr with stock but with the modded FZ-16, I would get well past 110 km/hr in no time. All this with stock exhaust and when the FFE is plonked then the scenario would be different. Full marks in this department also.


Camshaft sound:

The sound of the camshaft manufactured and supplied by Joel has become a hot debate here. The fact is - it's bit noisy compared to stock. Joel never told that the sound would die down but I surely remember him saying that the sound will get less noisy as the kms clock. But I haven't experienced any decrease in the sound and so my fellow mates who have done the BB kit. And also the nature of this camshaft is that when the engine gets hotter, the sound of the cam increases.


TPS issues:

Stock Yamaha Carb are fitted with TPS which sends signals to the CDI Unit for refinement but the carb which Joel suppiles has not place to fit the TPS and the TPS will be tweaked and the engine warning lamp will be lit all the life your babe. Looks awkward and if you are a perfectionist like me then you will have heavy time thinking about this.


Carb Issues:

New Yamaha Fz-16 latest model bikes come with dual throttle cables fitted to the carb. With the carb supplied by Joel only one cable can be fitted. The return cable will be cut and locked. For more perfect throttle response you need to change the whole throttle cable assembly to the old model one.

Now coming to the carb which Joel supplies is UCAL 29mm which is the stock carb of TVS Apache 180cc. It comes with 125 size main jet and what Joel does is he will replace the stock 125 size jet and plonk in the 115 size jet. According to his theory 115 size jet has no issues with the BB kit accompanying His signature FFE but when he tried it on my stock exhuast it was a big flop. I have heard even people with his FFE are getting to the 117.5 size main jet. Sourcing a 117.5 size jet is not easy because I had to wander like a vagabond every nook and corner for nearly 100 days to fetch these jets and finally one member of xbhp did me a favour where he had 1 set of kit left in his area.

Actually the bajaj 180cc carb comes with 117.5 size jet and is also Rs. 1500 cheaper than the carb which Joel supplies but still I wonder why he supplies the TVS carb and make us to source jets for ourselves. Still didn't understand the true reason behind it. Anyways can you question the creator? Certainly not - only when there are no flaws


Cranking Issues:

The BB kit will give you starting problems in the first 500-1000 kms. If you don't have kicker then you will have heavy time. You need to push start the bike. Since it's race specific and it's big bore you can't complain. Don't ever try to save petrol by switching off your bike at the traffic signals. You won't be sure whether it will crank at the right time when the signal turns GREEN. For cold starts you need to open the throttle or long press the start button and when the engine gets heated it's opposite you don't need to open the throttle. Lot of confusion na, surely you will know better when you experience it yourself. It's not all honeymoon. With power, -you also need to sacrifice many things.


Knocking Issues:

BB kit with ported head needs higher grade petrol but if you are living in places like Kerala where there is lower grade (87 Octane) petrol manufactured and supplied, the bike will start knocking in some gears. For this Joel advises you to plonk an extra paper gasket under the cylinder but that won't solve the problem. The knocking continues not heavily but reasonably especially during high-speeds. I'm yet to see the consequences of knocking in my bike. Till now everything is fine. So if you are living in area where lower grade petrol is supplied then you must also cope with random knocking sound.


Mileage:

Actually my primary reason for modding the bike is to get more power and more mileage. I was impressed when I read the statement on Joel's website "mileage increases by God-Margin". I still don't understand what this God-margin can be put up to. Any sane person will definitely expect 60 km/l because the Honda Unicorn when ridden sanely will give you 60 but what I got after thorough ripping and sane riding is 35 km/l and 34 km/l. I think the BB setup doesn't like traffic. You rip her hard say from 90-110 km/hr range and you will surely get 35 km/l whereas stock bike would give you somewhere near 30km/l. In traffic riding, I never got more than 34km/l. Maybe because of lower grade fuel here and also running on Stock exhaust but my good friend in bangalore who is running FFE with the BB kit never crossed 40 km/l. So if the God-margin tag worked with someone then he's lucky. Anyways it's all about luck as I always said Trial and Error project.


Ok guys now it's for you to decide whether to go for the modd or not. As I have clocked just 5000 kms, I can write this much. More will be revealed in the coming days as I go on clocking with the BB kit till the end of it.

@ Joel if I have offended you then I'm sorry, because I don't want another jonahmano to join the league of Joel's bashers.

Add 5% Acetone Vol/vol to fuel. This will enable you to achieve an addition of approximately 3 RON octane. Just make sure that its highly purified quality of Acetone.