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TVS Apache Electrical coversion to full dc with power to run hids all day!

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  • TVS Apache Electrical coversion to full dc with power to run hids all day!

    i am very happy to state that the mighty apache 180 rtr is converted to full dc 12 volt electrical systems.it was taken as a challenge as its one of the very low number of bikes which are having tci ignition system which means that it takes all of its spark plug juice from the battery directly,not from a dedicated coil of magneto like a lot of other indian two wheelers.

    the prob is if the charging isnt good as less then 13 volts as in less then 3k rpm the bike fails to perform properly as it fails to deliver the proper amount of amps to the tci ignition.

    apache is having ac dc electricals and a 35 watt halogen bulb which runs on ac.magneto is a two phase system.weirdly it s rr is one of a kind,takes juice from both ac phase and converting it to dc and finally to battery.it can have a company claimed 100watt or so generator but the truthe is it will not even support a simple h4 55/60 bulb directly.
    moreover coil rewinding and running a higher watt bulb in ac mode like many do in pulsys will also not work as the rr will fail as of its uniqueness.

    many have tried but still there is no dedicatedone single thread where in we can find a single usefull info about dc convertion of apaches.

    what we are doing?
    we are changing a stock apache rtr 180/160 to full dc like zma/zmr/p 220/p 180,150ug 4s/r 15s etc.

    what is the benefit?
    well,apart from being alive after a night ride,a better electrical s here what we are getting here. we can run 55/60 halogen bulb flicker free or hids ,may be 2 hids,does that fit the bill?

    is it gonna void the warranty?
    yes it will.

    is it safe and robust?
    all the components are oem ,also these are used in different bikes which are modded to dc,working like a charm.but be warned,a proper knowledgeable electrician is required.its not a simple plug and play.

    will there be any load in the engine after the mod?
    no ,you will not notice any drop of engine performance.


    so what we need to do?
    a piaggio ape rr.
    a apaches stator re winded with 19 gauge wire in alternate fashion.

    install the coil in place,rest all stock.there will be two wires coming out from the coil ,these wires to be connected to ape rrs two Grey wires.the ape rr will have two more wire,one yellow,connect this to battery pos,one black,connect it to battery negative.reroute all the electrical s from the battery.use a relay for halogen bulb otherwise you will not be able to get the full intensity.


    i tried my hands on guiterfreaks bike and his rtr 180 is now full dc running 55/60 bulb with ease.he can run this light all day ling ,no battery drain will be there.

    now ;lets the pictures talk----


    the bike.


    the rr unit of piaggio ape 3 wheeled minidoor,please buy oem only,no delhi made one please.


    a rewinded apache rtr s coil with its 8 poles.wire used 19 gauge,12 feet or more per pole,clock-anticlock-clock winding fashion.


    side view of the re winded coil.


    comparision with a pulsar /avengers re winded coil,the top one is apaches,the lower one is pulsars.


    apache 180 s coil with wires removed.


    please dont buy this rr as it s having extra wires ,may lead to undesired results.

    after the mod the bike will be able to run 55/60 halogen bulb with ease all day long,if you want.you can use hids also.the stock reflector of rtr r very good,so the light output with a normal h4 55/60 halogen bulb is equal to p 220 s stock lights.
    sigpic
    RIDE AND DRIVE SAFE AND PLEASE CHANGE THE PICTURE ON INDIAN ROADS.
    my thoughts,my area,my game....
    http://vmtm.blogspot.com/
    IF YOU LOVE MAINTAINING YOUR RIDE..http://nexgenbikes.com/site/


  • #2
    Topic Approved.
    :)

    Comment


    • #3
      Great work DOC....will check out guitarfreaks's RTR in next G2G..

      Comment


      • #4
        Nice post. Written in a easy to understand way. Now, go ahead write such posts about all other Indian bikes!
        Your biking tells a lot about the person you are!

        Comment


        • #5
          I am lucky to be the guy on whose bike the mod was carried out
          You can only ride better tomorrow if you ride safe today.

          Comment


          • #6
            WOW doc dada awesome !! & with a normal h4 55/60 halogen bulb is equal to p 220 s stock lights.

            guitar would definitely like to see your bike in flesh & light
            https://www.facebook.com/sunny.banerjee.184

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by drvmtm View Post
              i am very happy to state that the mighty apache 180 rtr is converted to full dc 12 volt electrical..................
              Dr, nice effort, and well narrated.
              Do it Yourself, what so ever, if Possible
              -----------------------------------------
              sigpic
              After Market HID Projector Mod for Pulsar 150
              Flasher Enabled Head Light Flash for Just Rs.1/-

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by sajjt View Post
                Dr, nice effort, and well narrated.
                Amen !!

                Comment


                • #9
                  1 stupid question: What is the ignition system in an Apache? No ignition coil on the stator??

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    reply in bold.

                    Originally posted by pavanchirmade View Post
                    1 stupid question: What is the ignition system in an Apache? No ignition coil on the stator??
                    its a tci ignition system like cars which takes the spark plug juice from battery,and yes there is no ignition coil in the stator,see the pic.
                    Originally posted by Shreeni0403 View Post
                    Amen !!
                    thank you,plese ,feel free to add more info,diagrams in this thread to make it more informative.
                    Originally posted by sajjt View Post
                    Dr, nice effort, and well narrated.
                    thank you,plese ,feel free to add more info,diagrams in this thread to make it more informative.this same goes for you also sir.

                    Originally posted by sunny9830687955 View Post
                    WOW doc dada awesome !! & with a normal h4 55/60 halogen bulb is equal to p 220 s stock lights.

                    guitar would definitely like to see your bike in flesh & light
                    a normal 55/60 halogen is a very good bulb indeed,just remember all the basic 4 wheelers and even some 6 wheelers,they all use 55/60 bulb by default(well most of them).the key is producing a proper amount of voltage and amp to the bulb,it will be bright.also apaches reflectors are very high quality,they also add a nice touch.go see the bike in night,you will believe it.

                    Originally posted by theguitarfreak View Post
                    I am lucky to be the guy on whose bike the mod was carried out
                    you holded your nerves correctly,took the risk,i thank you for that,appriciate it.
                    Originally posted by abhijeet080808 View Post
                    Nice post. Written in a easy to understand way. Now, go ahead write such posts about all other Indian bikes!
                    abhi,the god of light,master please put your valuable inputs and make it more informative
                    Originally posted by mandeep2183 View Post
                    Great work DOC....will check out guitarfreaks's RTR in next G2G..
                    thanks mandeep
                    Originally posted by Aryan View Post
                    Topic Approved.
                    thanks aryan for approval.
                    sigpic
                    RIDE AND DRIVE SAFE AND PLEASE CHANGE THE PICTURE ON INDIAN ROADS.
                    my thoughts,my area,my game....
                    http://vmtm.blogspot.com/
                    IF YOU LOVE MAINTAINING YOUR RIDE..http://nexgenbikes.com/site/

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Some more info.....

                      after installing the new rewinded coil,here are the things you can do to check as if its working properly or not.



                      connect ape rr to the chassis bolt or in simple words ,just bolt it to mount on the body of motorcycle.

                      connect the coil output to 2 grey ape rr wires,these are the ac input.

                      connect the oem wiring from the coil containing various wires like-neutral/pulse coil wire/pickup coil wire.BE SURE NOT TO ADD THE OEM ELCTRICAL WIRES,AS THEY ARE MODIFIED AND YOU ALREADY CONNECTED TO APE RR S AC INPUT.

                      connect the ape rr s output to battery directly.yellow to positive terminal,black to negative terminal,NOT THE GROUND THEN TO NEGATIVE,DIRECTLY TO BATTERY NEGATIVE TERMINAL!!

                      stop!!

                      grab your trusty digital multimeter
                      and check the dc voltage of the battery

                      now take the readings and post it in the fo0llowing manner...

                      when the engine is off-
                      start the engine-------
                      @1k-.................volts
                      @2k-.................volts
                      @3k-.................volts
                      @4k-.................volts
                      @5k-.................volts
                      @6k-.................volts
                      @7k-.................volts
                      @8k-.................volts
                      @9k-.................volts

                      if the range is between 12 volts to 15.8 volts ,then the system is working properly.your charging is ok till now.
                      BE SURE TO USE A FULLY CHARGED BATTERY OR YOU CAN GET SOME WEIRD READINGS!!

                      to double check you can check the ampere rate also,.

                      TURN THE BIKE OFF!!!
                      set the digital multimeter to ampere mode.
                      remove the ape rr s yellow wire from the battery connect it to dig multimeter s red wire and the black wire to battery .be sure the connections should be tight.
                      start the bike.you should get a reading between 3-6 amps.

                      if you are getting the above said readings then just you need to reroute the all the bikes electrical s PROPERLY with a help of professional electricians help.
                      sigpic
                      RIDE AND DRIVE SAFE AND PLEASE CHANGE THE PICTURE ON INDIAN ROADS.
                      my thoughts,my area,my game....
                      http://vmtm.blogspot.com/
                      IF YOU LOVE MAINTAINING YOUR RIDE..http://nexgenbikes.com/site/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        ThE modification which is suggested by our mate can also be applicable to rtr fi?
                        As i guess there is a bit difference in electrical system as compare to carb models. because of inclusion of fi sytem (i.e ecu, dc fuel pump,sensors) and there is a big capacitor placed under the tank which is connected with electrical harness might be in connection with battery to store up electrical charge and to supports battery output.
                        My duvidha!!
                        If i rewind the coil and draws output from it( i guess it means i m drawing power from lighting coil only, correct me if m wrong) will there be any problem with fi system, like now if i remove my battery, the whole system ( including fuel pump) runs on magneto power only.
                        last month i convert all my lighting load to dc by tapping a wire from dc circuit(fuel pump ckt) but after two weeks battery's plates( charging capability becomes zero) gone due to fast draining of charges from battery, now i again switched to stock setup with ups battery of 9amp.

                        My question is this k if i increase its charging rate by only replacing stock RR with APE RR is it enough?
                        BIKING ??? " A RELIGION "

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          ans in bold

                          Originally posted by SARAB_FI View Post
                          ThE modification which is suggested by our mate can also be applicable to rtr fi?

                          the mod can be done in any apache,the fi needs few more watts thats it,the system is capable of pumping a reallife 8+amps when needed,which is way more then stock capability.

                          As i guess there is a bit difference in electrical system as compare to carb models. because of inclusion of fi sytem (i.e ecu, dc fuel pump,sensors) and there is a big capacitor placed under the tank which is connected with electrical harness might be in connection with battery to store up electrical charge and to supports battery output.

                          the fi bikes pump more amp then regular models and there is a capacitor to load some juice also for sudden surge,but the modded system is producing even more then that,and this modded system then will be using the stock electricals also ,so that capacitor will be added in to the circit.

                          My duvidha!!
                          If i rewind the coil and draws output from it( i guess it means i m drawing power from lighting coil only, correct me if m wrong) will there be any problem with fi system, like now if i remove my battery, the whole system ( including fuel pump) runs on magneto power only.

                          please read the first post properly,i said i used all eight poles,not only light poles,so its not the mere light coils only!
                          yes you need a battery to complete the circuit,otherwise the system should not work.it may also with the capacitor,but its recommended you use at least a decent battery when you are converting to FULL DC.

                          last month i convert all my lighting load to dc by tapping a wire from dc circuit(fuel pump ckt) but after two weeks battery's plates( charging capability becomes zero) gone due to fast draining of charges from battery, now i again switched to stock setup with ups battery of 9amp.

                          you tapped the battery charging section which bearly pump 3.5-4 amps,so this happend,you were not using other 4 poles of magneto,thus this happened.you were charging less,pulling more ,so the result.

                          My question is this k if i increase its charging rate by only replacing stock RR with APE RR is it enough?

                          in rather simple words its not possible.you need to rewind the coil properly to get the desired results in apache as the charging system is very unique.please refer the first post for details.
                          ,hope you got your ans.
                          sigpic
                          RIDE AND DRIVE SAFE AND PLEASE CHANGE THE PICTURE ON INDIAN ROADS.
                          my thoughts,my area,my game....
                          http://vmtm.blogspot.com/
                          IF YOU LOVE MAINTAINING YOUR RIDE..http://nexgenbikes.com/site/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by drvmtm View Post
                            , if i remove my battery, the whole system ( including fuel pump) runs on magneto power only. .
                            My main objective of mentioning this above point was to quote the reliable consideration of this system, as suppose in worst case scenario the batterys power gone off due to undesirable cause than will this full dc system able to run fuel pump n other parts of ecu because in stock setup magneto/lighting coil runs them.
                            BIKING ??? " A RELIGION "

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by SARAB_FI View Post
                              My main objective of mentioning this above point was to quote the reliable consideration of this system, as suppose in worst case scenario the batterys power gone off due to undesirable cause than will this full dc system able to run fuel pump n other parts of ecu because in stock setup magneto/lighting coil runs them.
                              you need a battery,be it a faulty one,be it a 2.5 amp one,you need one to completer the circit,without battery it will not run.just think it as a car!
                              sigpic
                              RIDE AND DRIVE SAFE AND PLEASE CHANGE THE PICTURE ON INDIAN ROADS.
                              my thoughts,my area,my game....
                              http://vmtm.blogspot.com/
                              IF YOU LOVE MAINTAINING YOUR RIDE..http://nexgenbikes.com/site/

                              Comment

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