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  • #61
    Re: HID causing battery drain

    UG3 is an ac bike and its rectifer charging caters only for charging battery for horns, indicator and for selfstarting.

    Maintenance batteries(Filling water and charging types) only last for 2+ years in my experience. If the battery is amaron non-maintenance type it would last for 3+ years. Thats it.

    UG3 stator coil and rectifier is not intended for continuous charging the battery i.e; as you are using hid (i am supposing it as 35w hid and uses battery power continuously). Its not the way how UG3 electricals are designed. If you have planned for hid, you MUST AND SHOULD upgrade the stator coil and rectifier so that the battery issues will not popup.

    If your battery is Maintenance type and exceeded 2+ years, if life has ended. throw it away and buy non-maintenance amaron 9ah battery.

    Checking your battery and regulator
    With all off-----> check voltage at battery it should be around atleast 12.9-13.3

    Ignition on and kick start bike, off the lights, indicators and other stuff----> raise the throttle gradually and check voltage at battery. the voltage should touch 13.6-13.8V+ DC at any cost with above 3/4 th throttle.

    If the voltage is above 13.8V, your bikes rectifier is Good, which indicates your battery life is over. Dont waste your money in charging again and again as it is 2+years battery. In my experience.

    "Becoz i think my battery is fine but its not getting charged properly., I had gone through this article (hid causing battery discharge )and found that by fixing the right rectifier I can save both my battery and the hid head lamps."

    Its always Stator+Rectifier that decides the charge in battery.

    UG3 stator and rectifier are not designed to give continuous charge for operating your HID.
    UG3 stator is for two purposes. Half cores for lighting(AC) and half cores for charging battery and UG3 Rectifier takes both these athings and gives voltage for lighting and for battery charging.

    UG4 has total DC electricals with Full winded stator and Rectifer(Only for charging battery). UG4 can handle the HID(35W) setup with ease.

    Comment


    • #62
      Re: HID causing battery drain

      Originally posted by Srinivas sr143sr View Post
      UG3 is an ac bike and its rectifer charging caters only for charging battery for horns, indicator and for selfstarting.

      Maintenance batteries(Filling water and charging types) only last for 2+ years in my experience. If the battery is amaron non-maintenance type it would last for 3+ years. Thats it.

      UG3 stator coil and rectifier is not intended for continuous charging the battery i.e; as you are using hid (i am supposing it as 35w hid and uses battery power continuously). Its not the way how UG3 electricals are designed. If you have planned for hid, you MUST AND SHOULD upgrade the stator coil and rectifier so that the battery issues will not popup.

      If your battery is Maintenance type and exceeded 2+ years, if life has ended. throw it away and buy non-maintenance amaron 9ah battery.

      Checking your battery and regulator
      With all off-----> check voltage at battery it should be around atleast 12.9-13.3

      Ignition on and kick start bike, off the lights, indicators and other stuff----> raise the throttle gradually and check voltage at battery. the voltage should touch 13.6-13.8V+ DC at any cost with above 3/4 th throttle.

      If the voltage is above 13.8V, your bikes rectifier is Good, which indicates your battery life is over. Dont waste your money in charging again and again as it is 2+years battery. In my experience.

      "Becoz i think my battery is fine but its not getting charged properly., I had gone through this article (hid causing battery discharge )and found that by fixing the right rectifier I can save both my battery and the hid head lamps."

      Its always Stator+Rectifier that decides the charge in battery.

      UG3 stator and rectifier are not designed to give continuous charge for operating your HID.
      UG3 stator is for two purposes. Half cores for lighting(AC) and half cores for charging battery and UG3 Rectifier takes both these athings and gives voltage for lighting and for battery charging.

      UG4 has total DC electricals with Full winded stator and Rectifer(Only for charging battery). UG4 can handle the HID(35W) setup with ease.
      Click image for larger version

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      Comment


      • #63
        Re: HID causing battery drain

        bro,, if rr is alright then can't suggest you anything don't know much about it,, as i do not require hid lights and all and did fell in such a kind of situation,,, so sorry bro
        but before buying anything

        satisfy yourself,..... i have wasted 6000 rs... just because of fuc**** bcu and again i had to spend 4 to 5k for upgrading to UG 5..
        so be aware,,, and beware



        yeah one more thing here is a guy (srinivas s143s). he suffered alot because of all this hid and all so search him and ask him,...
        may be he can hep you out bro

        Comment


        • #64
          Re: HID causing battery drain

          oPPS... he already replied to you...

          Comment


          • #65
            Re: HID causing battery drain

            Originally posted by chopperlover View Post
            bro,, if rr is alright then can't suggest you anything don't know much about it,, as i do not require hid lights and all and did fell in such a kind of situation,,, so sorry bro
            but before buying anything

            satisfy yourself,..... i have wasted 6000 rs... just because of fuc**** bcu and again i had to spend 4 to 5k for upgrading to UG 5..
            so be aware,,, and beware



            yeah one more thing here is a guy (srinivas s143s). he suffered alot because of all this hid and all so search him and ask him,...
            may be he can hep you out bro
            hi ...
            its alright ...thanks anyways for your time and reply.

            i too have put a some money to this around 3k and i don't want to spend any more if its not helping to come out this situation ..that's why i am here...

            i am thank full to him also ...he did give me some tips to check my battery...i am on it now.

            i hope i ll soon find a solution for my problem here.

            ----consecutive posts auto-merged-----

            Originally posted by Srinivas sr143sr View Post
            UG3 is an ac bike and its rectifer charging caters only for charging battery for horns, indicator and for selfstarting.

            Maintenance batteries(Filling water and charging types) only last for 2+ years in my experience. If the battery is amaron non-maintenance type it would last for 3+ years. Thats it.

            UG3 stator coil and rectifier is not intended for continuous charging the battery i.e; as you are using hid (i am supposing it as 35w hid and uses battery power continuously). Its not the way how UG3 electricals are designed. If you have planned for hid, you MUST AND SHOULD upgrade the stator coil and rectifier so that the battery issues will not popup.

            If your battery is Maintenance type and exceeded 2+ years, if life has ended. throw it away and buy non-maintenance amaron 9ah battery.

            Checking your battery and regulator
            With all off-----> check voltage at battery it should be around atleast 12.9-13.3

            Ignition on and kick start bike, off the lights, indicators and other stuff----> raise the throttle gradually and check voltage at battery. the voltage should touch 13.6-13.8V+ DC at any cost with above 3/4 th throttle.

            If the voltage is above 13.8V, your bikes rectifier is Good, which indicates your battery life is over. Dont waste your money in charging again and again as it is 2+years battery. In my experience.

            "Becoz i think my battery is fine but its not getting charged properly., I had gone through this article (hid causing battery discharge )and found that by fixing the right rectifier I can save both my battery and the hid head lamps."

            Its always Stator+Rectifier that decides the charge in battery.

            UG3 stator and rectifier are not designed to give continuous charge for operating your HID.
            UG3 stator is for two purposes. Half cores for lighting(AC) and half cores for charging battery and UG3 Rectifier takes both these athings and gives voltage for lighting and for battery charging.

            UG4 has total DC electricals with Full winded stator and Rectifer(Only for charging battery). UG4 can handle the HID(35W) setup with ease.


            hi srinivas ...

            i did as u told me to do for checking the battery..

            First with switching on the bike i got 12.80 - 13.00 around the battery terminals

            and then with kick start and engine running i go around 13.80 to 14.00 and climbing around the battery terminals.

            and with 4000 rpm also i got around 13.50 to 13.80

            according to this data i guess my stator and the rectifier unit are good and working well ...and i am getting enough power to charge my battery..

            along with this i noted that when i used the self-start the reading suddenly dropped to 8.55 ...does this mean something?...or is this normal?

            i also have read in an article that if the reading around the terminals of the battery is more than the required volts it may damage the battery..is it true?
            becoz i am getting 14.00 and above in the terminals when the engines are running...this might have damaged my battery and reduced its life.


            as mentioned before can i change my stator to ug4 stator and rr unit...will this help me?'
            how much the ug4 stator and rectifer unit will cost me... if i do this mod will my battery be able to handle all the electrical without causing any problems in the future.
            plz five me a affordable solutions..

            Comment


            • #66
              Re: HID causing battery drain

              Originally posted by gurudeep View Post
              hi ...
              its alright ...thanks anyways for your time and reply.

              i too have put a some money to this around 3k and i don't want to spend any more if its not helping to come out this situation ..that's why i am here...

              i am thank full to him also ...he did give me some tips to check my battery...i am on it now.

              i hope i ll soon find a solution for my problem here.

              ----consecutive posts auto-merged-----





              hi srinivas ...

              i did as u told me to do for checking the battery..

              First with switching on the bike i got 12.80 - 13.00 around the battery terminals

              and then with kick start and engine running i go around 13.80 to 14.00 and climbing around the battery terminals.

              and with 4000 rpm also i got around 13.50 to 13.80

              according to this data i guess my stator and the rectifier unit are good and working well ...and i am getting enough power to charge my battery..

              along with this i noted that when i used the self-start the reading suddenly dropped to 8.55 ...does this mean something?...or is this normal?

              i also have read in an article that if the reading around the terminals of the battery is more than the required volts it may damage the battery..is it true?
              becoz i am getting 14.00 and above in the terminals when the engines are running...this might have damaged my battery and reduced its life.


              as mentioned before can i change my stator to ug4 stator and rr unit...will this help me?'
              how much the ug4 stator and rectifer unit will cost me... if i do this mod will my battery be able to handle all the electrical without causing any problems in the future.
              plz five me a affordable solutions..
              Your readings are good. but NOTE that the Regulator will be working more and more and will FAIL EARLY than it should because of the overload to charge battery more.
              its like making a horse(Regulator) to run more and more than its capability. what happens..?? Simple... it runs for a certain period and it dies early...!!! It applies to all regulators whether its ac or dc..!!!

              14V+ Charging DC voltage to even 15VDC is not an issue for charging Battery.

              For checking perfectly whether your battery is weak or not. do the following:

              Kickstart the bike. START THE BIKE ONLY WITH KICK. Run the bike for a day or more than 40-50kms(or more than that) WITHOUT USING any horn, headlight or even self start. Now at the end of the day your battery is charged well,

              Remove both the wires that are connecting to spark plugs(So that engine will not start).
              Ignition on(Off all switches of lights indicators etc), Now press start button with Continuous 4 seconds, Release and again do the same. After three times if your bike has bcu, self will not function so turn off the key and on ignition key and again try to self start the bike.
              i.e try to Press and release self button atleast 15-20 times with 4 seconds continuos usage at every press. YES, you heard it right. DO IT.

              even after that the battery should be able to crank the engine as it does at the first attempt.

              If its not able to crank or showing weak symptoms. The answer is your battery life has come to an end.


              I have tried it myself once on my UG2 (I had choked airfilter and bike not getting started) and even starting continuosly more than 30 times(bike not getting started) the battery is still able to crank the engine same as it does on first attempt..!!!


              Remember one thing the battery has to be charged decently when its been used, its not like our mobile battery. Improper/Low charge with high usage(More power headlights/other accessories) will have severe effects on life of battery.

              One can use a 60w headlight without any issue if the stator and regulator are able to feed the battery properly in time..!! Ex: Bajaj V15, Avenger

              In my bike UG2 im running 60/55 W light without any issue with Avneger180 stator coil+ Avenger Regulator setup, though its an AC setup and has nothing to do it with DC. (Stock pulsar regulator will fail at sometime as the power supplied will be much more than stock Pulsar stator)


              The image you have shared. MAN.. What he has done..???
              The red rectangle is a capacitor. It smoothens the electric flow to battery. its a part of UG4 Rectifier. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO OR NO USE IN YOUR CASE..!!!
              The Green Circle one is a Regulator from another bike may be Apache.?? Cant say it for sure... Why he has connected it..?? two cases

              case 1: If he was trying to utilize lighting power of your bike converted to dc(using Green circle regulator) along with your bikes regulator, it will lead to DISASTER.


              Case 2: He is using that regulator for only charging the battery. (As you said that you are not able to start the bike there is high chance that your regulator charging circuit has gone kaput and he fixed it using other bikes regulator. YES.. as i said earlier there are chances that it will fail.)
              This case2 will not be a problem if done properly.

              Try to remove the socket from Green circle regulator and start bike and check voltage at battery. Does the voltage increasing with throttle...?? If No, that regulator is being used for charging battery.


              Do one thing try to take atleast 3-4 pics of that regulator connections clearly showing all the wires. The white color male socket of your bike regulator as well as female connector of your bike wiring that is connected to it. You tell me what are the wires that are going and coming out for both the regulators. DO IT ASAP.

              Your bike regulator has six wires...

              2 Blue-white wires--- AC power comes from stator to regulator for charging the battery
              White wire--- DC +ve out to battery +pole
              black-yellow wire-- DC-ve to Battery-ve pole or to the Bike chasis

              Yellow-red wire--- Ac power comes from stator to regulator for Lighting
              Yellow wire---Ac power out for lighting.


              Using both lighting and battery charging combined to charge battery would lead to disaster, battery damage or FIRE or more that...!!


              "is there any option to change my stator to ug4 stator which can handle both my hid and charge the battery at the same time?
              if yes should i change the wiring of my bike also?"


              UG2,3 has a dedicated pole for spark generation for its CDI. UG4 pulsars all stator cores are winded for battery charging. UG4 CDI draws its power from battery or it will have inside dc conversion mechanism.
              So you cant use UG4 stator without changing CDI, wiring mod and ignition timng, TDC and other mods.

              So you have only an option of rewinding all your UG3 stator cores (leaving the ignition coil) and using the generated power to charge your battery using UG4 Regulator.

              If you intend to do this you have to convert your bike to all dc and its a big question how the UG3 AC electrical system BCU will respond (Chances are there to FAIL). If the BCU part is same for both UG3 and UG4, then you can go ahead with out any second thougts.


              UG3 to UG4.5 electricals are JUST SHIT..!!!!

              You have not mentioned the rating of your HID 35w..??? 55w..??? 60W..??
              Even the UG4 struggles to light up 55w.. cause even UG4 is not designed to handle 55w current for lighting purpose.
              Last edited by Srinivas sr143sr; 05-04-2017, 02:39 AM.

              Comment


              • #67
                Re: HID causing battery drain

                Originally posted by Srinivas sr143sr View Post
                Your readings are good. but NOTE that the Regulator will be working more and more and will FAIL EARLY than it should because of the overload to charge battery more.
                its like making a horse(Regulator) to run more and more than its capability. what happens..?? Simple... it runs for a certain period and it dies early...!!! It applies to all regulators whether its ac or dc..!!!

                14V+ Charging DC voltage to even 15VDC is not an issue for charging Battery.

                For checking perfectly whether your battery is weak or not. do the following:

                Kickstart the bike. START THE BIKE ONLY WITH KICK. Run the bike for a day or more than 40-50kms(or more than that) WITHOUT USING any horn, headlight or even self start. Now at the end of the day your battery is charged well,

                Remove both the wires that are connecting to spark plugs(So that engine will not start).
                Ignition on(Off all switches of lights indicators etc), Now press start button with Continuous 4 seconds, Release and again do the same. After three times if your bike has bcu, self will not function so turn off the key and on ignition key and again try to self start the bike.
                i.e try to Press and release self button atleast 15-20 times with 4 seconds continuos usage at every press. YES, you heard it right. DO IT.

                even after that the battery should be able to crank the engine as it does at the first attempt.

                If its not able to crank or showing weak symptoms. The answer is your battery life has come to an end.


                I have tried it myself once on my UG2 (I had choked airfilter and bike not getting started) and even starting continuosly more than 30 times(bike not getting started) the battery is still able to crank the engine same as it does on first attempt..!!!


                Remember one thing the battery has to be charged decently when its been used, its not like our mobile battery. Improper/Low charge with high usage(More power headlights/other accessories) will have severe effects on life of battery.

                One can use a 60w headlight without any issue if the stator and regulator are able to feed the battery properly in time..!! Ex: Bajaj V15, Avenger

                In my bike UG2 im running 60/55 W light without any issue with Avneger180 stator coil+ Avenger Regulator setup, though its an AC setup and has nothing to do it with DC. (Stock pulsar regulator will fail at sometime as the power supplied will be much more than stock Pulsar stator)


                The image you have shared. MAN.. What he has done..???
                The red rectangle is a capacitor. It smoothens the electric flow to battery. its a part of UG4 Rectifier. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO OR NO USE IN YOUR CASE..!!!
                The Green Circle one is a Regulator from another bike may be Apache.?? Cant say it for sure... Why he has connected it..?? two cases

                case 1: If he was trying to utilize lighting power of your bike converted to dc(using Green circle regulator) along with your bikes regulator, it will lead to DISASTER.


                Case 2: He is using that regulator for only charging the battery. (As you said that you are not able to start the bike there is high chance that your regulator charging circuit has gone kaput and he fixed it using other bikes regulator. YES.. as i said earlier there are chances that it will fail.)
                This case2 will not be a problem if done properly.

                Try to remove the socket from Green circle regulator and start bike and check voltage at battery. Does the voltage increasing with throttle...?? If No, that regulator is being used for charging battery.


                Do one thing try to take atleast 3-4 pics of that regulator connections clearly showing all the wires. The white color male socket of your bike regulator as well as female connector of your bike wiring that is connected to it. You tell me what are the wires that are going and coming out for both the regulators. DO IT ASAP.

                Your bike regulator has six wires...

                2 Blue-white wires--- AC power comes from stator to regulator for charging the battery
                White wire--- DC +ve out to battery +pole
                black-yellow wire-- DC-ve to Battery-ve pole or to the Bike chasis

                Yellow-red wire--- Ac power comes from stator to regulator for Lighting
                Yellow wire---Ac power out for lighting.


                Using both lighting and battery charging combined to charge battery would lead to disaster, battery damage or FIRE or more that...!!


                "is there any option to change my stator to ug4 stator which can handle both my hid and charge the battery at the same time?
                if yes should i change the wiring of my bike also?"


                UG2,3 has a dedicated pole for spark generation for its CDI. UG4 pulsars all stator cores are winded for battery charging. UG4 CDI draws its power from battery or it will have inside dc conversion mechanism.
                So you cant use UG4 stator without changing CDI, wiring mod and ignition timng, TDC and other mods.

                So you have only an option of rewinding all your UG3 stator cores (leaving the ignition coil) and using the generated power to charge your battery using UG4 Regulator.

                If you intend to do this you have to convert your bike to all dc and its a big question how the UG3 AC electrical system BCU will respond (Chances are there to FAIL). If the BCU part is same for both UG3 and UG4, then you can go ahead with out any second thougts.


                UG3 to UG4.5 electricals are JUST SHIT..!!!!

                You have not mentioned the rating of your HID 35w..??? 55w..??? 60W..??
                Even the UG4 struggles to light up 55w.. cause even UG4 is not designed to handle 55w current for lighting purpose.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Re: HID causing battery drain

                  Originally posted by gurudeep View Post
                  Omg ..i think I have lost my stock regulator …that’s why he has installed that regulator for charging the battery
                  Now I remember ….After I installed the hid with the new battery. The set up was fine for say 6 months or so then I had a small problem..i don’t remember exactly what the problem was but it had to do something with charging of the battery….that’s y I took the bike to him and he did fix that two electrical equipment’s in front of me…
                  Is there any chance that my stock regulator was not able to charge the battery correctly that’s y he has fixed tat new regulator?

                  Maybe your regulator has failed. Its like treating a dog like a donkey and making it to carry the weights. What happens.. Lolll... Dog dies after some days
                  If you show the wires(6 wires) total connections at white socket im able to tell what he has done.


                  “case 1: If he was trying to utilize lighting power of your bike converted to dc(using Green circle regulator) along with your bikes regulator, it will lead to DISASTER.”
                  does this mean that he is using the power from my stock regulator to charge the battery and at the same time ac current produced by the stator for lighting purpose is also converted to dc and is being used to charge the battery using the new regulator…. If he has done this set up I might have a chance of blowing up my battery right?

                  Yes, thats parallel charging and it should not be done. And it can be confirmed only by seeing wires.

                  And if he has done the above mentioned set up he should have done a new wiring from my battery to the hid Right??

                  Simple. HID should be powered from direct battery +. It has nothing to do with what he has done with your bikes regulator

                  As u said ill check whatever u have mentioned here and will be back soon with the data… I don have a millimeter to check I have to go to a service station for that that’s the one which will take time …but I will do it..
                  “Try to remove the socket from Green circle regulator and start bike and check voltage at battery. Does the voltage increasing with throttle...?? If No, that regulator is being used for charging battery.”

                  I didn’t get this point did u mean to say that…if the voltage increases that regulator is being used for charging the battery right?


                  What i am saying is remove the socket from that regulator. start bike and check voltage at battery. if voltage is not increasing, it means that regualtor is used for charging battery. Any way if you click the pics of that 6 wires at that white socket i will be able to say what he has done with your bike.

                  I think it might be a 55w hid …at that time I didn’t have much knowledge about these things so I might have told him to install the 55w ..(bigger the number brighter the light)

                  Stock UG3 stator and Regulator are NOT AT ALL SUITABLE to handle the 55w. Even the APE RR or UG4 regulator or any regulator cant do any thing without stator upgrade.

                  Even UG3 stator is not designed to charge the battery continuously for 35w headlight/Hid. I have tested it..!! It runs for 10-15 mins and then battery gets drained. all horns, self will not function properly.


                  After reading your suggestion I have dropped the idea changing to ug4 system… either I will go with this or ill change everything to stock.
                  Replies in Bold. See.. In my experience many almost 80% dont know what they are doing. They will fix temporarily. When you are going to fix a Hid for your UG3, the electrician for making easy money they will fix and says everything will be fine. Sometimes its also intentional for making easy money...!!!
                  Last edited by Srinivas sr143sr; 05-05-2017, 08:24 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: HID causing battery drain

                    Originally posted by Srinivas sr143sr View Post
                    Replies in Bold. See.. In my experience many almost 80% dont know what they are doing. They will fix temporarily. When you are going to fix a Hid for your UG3, the electrician for making easy money they will fix and says everything will be fine. Sometimes its also intentional for making easy money...!!!
                    Hey… thanks man for the info…I have posted 5 snaps of the connections he had made…


                    The pics are the same but from different angles… in the last pic .. in the top left that red box like thing is it my stock regulator?

                    What i am saying is remove the socket from that regulator. start bike and check voltage at battery. if voltage is not increasing, it means that regulator is used for charging battery. Any way if you click the pics of those 6 wires at that white socket i will be able to say what he has done with your bike.”

                    as u have mentioned here which connection should I disconnect?
                    The 6 terminal connections or the 4 terminal connection?Click image for larger version

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                    as u can c in the male connector one of the middle wire is not in the connector but he has took the wire outside and from that wire he has drawn two wires that is green and yell ow which goes to the other connector...why he has done this?
                    Attached Files
                    Last edited by gurudeep; 05-08-2017, 11:47 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: HID causing battery drain

                      Originally posted by gurudeep View Post

                      as u have mentioned here which connection should I disconnect?
                      The 6 terminal connections or the 4 terminal connection?[ATTACH]229402[/ATTACH]


                      as u can c in the male connector one of the middle wire is not in the connector but he has took the wire outside and from that wire he has drawn two wires that is green and yell ow which goes to the other connector...why he has done this?
                      Read till the end.

                      The Red Brick like thing is your bikes regulator.

                      You have taken the pics but the connections are not clear as the mechanic has covered them with tapes.

                      --->In last pic, two wires(Yellow and green of 4 pin connector) are joined and cant be seen where they are going.

                      As per what i am seeing (you have to confirm it), In 4th pic (last but one) and last one, Yellow-Red(Stator generated AC power for lighting) is cut from going to your bikes original regulator and it is joined with Green and Yellow wires of 2nd Regulator. (You have to confirm that Green and Yellow are combined and joined to Yellow-Red wire)
                      Now Lightgreen-Red(of 2nd regulator) is Joined with Black-Yellow(Ground) of Original regulator
                      and White wire(of 2nd regulator) is joined with White wire(DC +ve out to battery ) of Original regulator.

                      Hmm---> if that is what he has done. Its Parallel-Charging. BE READY FOR SURPRISES...!!! FIRE and MORE..!!!!

                      I will explain you what he has done.....

                      He has not disturbed your bikes Charging. That is i am talking about your 6 wire regulator.
                      The two Blue-White wires brings AC voltage to your regulator and converts to DC voltage and now
                      The Whitewire gives +ve to your battery
                      The Black-Yellow gives -ve to your battery

                      They are not disturbed or cut in between by the mechanic as they charge the battery. Am i right..???

                      The Yellow-Red wire carries AC current for Lighting to your stock regulator and your stock regulator regulates it around 40-45watts of AC and gives that current out via Yellow wire to your headlight and Pilot lamps and other lights which work on AC voltage.

                      Now he has cut the above Yellow-Red wire and completely kept it far from reaching your regulator and
                      fed it to New regulator(4-pin) and took the converted DC voltage out of it via White(DC+ve out) and Lightgreen-Red(DC-ve out) and Mixed it back with your original regulators White(DC+ve out) and Black-Yellow(DC-ve out)


                      uffffff...... He has no clue of what harm he is doing... It will F*** your bikes electriclas (I am saying on what i am seeing in your pics. you have to confirm it)


                      Now Test it-- >
                      Both Regulators sockets are connected right...????
                      Remove 4-pin socket. start bike and take readings at battery. the voltage will increase.
                      Now Fix that socket back and remove 6-pin socket(If you removed 4pin at first, fix that back and now remove 6pin one). now start bike and take readings at battery. the voltage will increase.

                      If in both cases either removing 4pin or 6 pin, voltage is increasing.. right..???, its parallel charging.

                      Your bike is in serious trouble if its parallel charging. Test it as soon as possible.


                      For double confirming Parallel charging do the following.

                      Disconnect battery both +ve and -ve wires (i.e; remove battery connections at battery terminals)


                      Case1:
                      Remove 4-pin connector and keep connected your original Regulator connection(6-pin). Now at the 6-pin socket place leads of multimeter, +ve at white wire, -ve at Black-yellow wire, start bike and check reading. Increasing DC voltage..??


                      Case2:
                      Remove 6-pin connector and keep connected your 4-pin Regulator . Now at the 4-pin socket place leads of multimeter, +ve at white wire, -ve at Lightgreen-Red wire, start bike and check reading. Increasing DC voltage..??

                      look at pic for reference

                      Click image for larger version

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ID:	1949695

                      If in both cases the voltage is increasing then its Parallel charging.

                      If you get readings as what i said(If voltage increasing in both cases), First, you disconnect the 4-pin connector and you can ride your bike for the time being without further damaging your bikes electricals and battery.


                      Revert back with results

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Re: HID causing battery drain

                        Originally posted by Srinivas sr143sr View Post
                        Read till the end.-- i read your msgs 3 4 times till the end without leaving a word

                        hi ...the answers are in bold.... cool man what ever u sai is right here about the connections...r u a professional?

                        The Red Brick like thing is your bikes regulator.

                        You have taken the pics but the connections are not clear as the mechanic has covered them with tapes.

                        --->In last pic, two wires(Yellow and green of 4 pin connector) are joined and cant be seen where they are going.
                        its is going to red-yellow of the 6 pin connector which is disconnected from the 6 pin connector(u r right)

                        As per what i am seeing (you have to confirm it), In 4th pic (last but one) and last one, Yellow-Red(Stator generated AC power for lighting) is cut from going to your bikes original regulator and it is joined with Green and Yellow wires of 2nd Regulator. (You have to confirm that Green and Yellow are combined and joined to Yellow-Red wire)... ur perfectly right.

                        Now Lightgreen-Red(of 2nd regulator) is Joined with Black-Yellow(Ground) of Original regulator....perfectly right.
                        and White wire(of 2nd regulator) is joined with White wire(DC +ve out to battery ) of Original regulator... right here too

                        Hmm---> if that is what he has done. Its Parallel-Charging. BE READY FOR SURPRISES...!!! FIRE and MORE..!!!!

                        but i have been using the bike in the same setup for almost 2 years.i should have been in problem way before right?
                        this is the first problem i am facing.(battery not holding the charge).


                        I will explain you what he has done.....

                        He has not disturbed your bikes Charging. That is i am talking about your 6 wire regulator.
                        The two Blue-White wires brings AC voltage to your regulator and converts to DC voltage and now
                        The Whitewire gives +ve to your battery
                        The Black-Yellow gives -ve to your battery

                        but u said black-yellow is the ground wire.


                        They are not disturbed or cut in between by the mechanic as they charge the battery. Am i right..???...yes those wire are not disturbed... other than two wires light green-red and white wires joining respectively.

                        The Yellow-Red wire carries AC current for Lighting to your stock regulator and your stock regulator regulates it around 40-45watts of AC and gives that current out via Yellow wire to your headlight and Pilot lamps and other lights which work on AC voltage.
                        okay


                        Now he has cut the above Yellow-Red wire and completely kept it far from reaching your regulator and
                        fed it to New regulator(4-pin) and took the converted DC voltage out of it via White(DC+ve out) and Lightgreen-Red(DC-ve out) and Mixed it back with your original regulators White(DC+ve out) and Black-Yellow(DC-ve out)

                        yes ...he has done the same as u have mentioned (by the way how did u come to know which is +ve and -ve there is no indication in the regulator right.. how did u cone to know that?


                        uffffff...... He has no clue of what harm he is doing... It will F*** your bikes electriclas (I am saying on what i am seeing in your pics. you have to confirm it)

                        the connection are the same as u said.


                        Now Test it-- >
                        Both Regulators sockets are connected right...????
                        Remove 4-pin socket. start bike and take readings at battery. the voltage will increase.
                        Now Fix that socket back and remove 6-pin socket(If you removed 4pin at first, fix that back and now remove 6pin one). now start bike and take readings at battery. the voltage will increase.

                        If in both cases either removing 4pin or 6 pin, voltage is increasing.. right..???, its parallel charging.

                        Your bike is in serious trouble if its parallel charging. Test it as soon as possible.


                        For double confirming Parallel charging do the following.

                        Disconnect battery both +ve and -ve wires (i.e; remove battery connections at battery terminals)


                        Case1:
                        Remove 4-pin connector and keep connected your original Regulator connection(6-pin). Now at the 6-pin socket place leads of multimeter, +ve at white wire, -ve at Black-yellow wire, start bike and check reading. Increasing DC voltage..??


                        Case2:
                        Remove 6-pin connector and keep connected your 4-pin Regulator . Now at the 4-pin socket place leads of multimeter, +ve at white wire, -ve at Lightgreen-Red wire, start bike and check reading. Increasing DC voltage..??

                        look at pic for reference

                        [ATTACH]229408[/ATTACH]

                        If in both cases the voltage is increasing then its Parallel charging.

                        If you get readings as what i said(If voltage increasing in both cases), First, you disconnect the 4-pin connector and you can ride your bike for the time being without further damaging your bikes electricals and does battery... what if my hid or electric dose not work after disconnecting the 4 pin regulator?


                        Revert back with results



                        as u have mentioned in ur message the red-yellow wire was bringing ac voltage to my stock regulator and then sent back to power my stock halogen bulb through yellow wire right (in the 6 pin regulator)?

                        now the yellow wire is idle right it is not supplying any power to any electrical of my bike right?

                        now the question arises ...how are my ac electrical working ...from where is the power being supplied to them? i cannot c any wire going out of my batter to my hid or horn? can u plz explain this ?

                        there are some new symptoms in my bike now ...while riding during the day time electric start works for a couple of time horn also works for two times the no sound coming from it.. since i don do much traveling in the bike (aprox 14kms per day ).

                        and during the night when the hid is on a battery sign starts to flash in the display of my bike ...and no electric start or horn works..

                        what dose these symptoms indicate?
                        dose is say that my battery is dead? or going to be dead? or starving for power? or unable to store power?

                        thanks srinivas for your patients and time.. i hope i am not irritating you.

                        will be back with the results soon.





                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: HID causing battery drain

                          Originally posted by gurudeep View Post

                          Thats what i am asking you to check mann.. Disconnecting one at a time and checking. If voltage incraeses at both cases its parallel charging. and if both cases are true, now even if you disconnect 4-pin charger your bike battery gets charged.

                          If your stock regulator is ok and the mechanic connected the extra regulator for parallel charging the battery will get charged as your stock regulator and 4-pin regulator both will do the job. (But its not the way to charge the battery)

                          It is like sharing a single job with two persons. If one person is on leave the work is not stopped right..????

                          Hid will work as long as your battery has charge. Hid doesnt mind with what you are charging your battery whether you use single regulator or 100 regulators.

                          as u have mentioned in ur message the red-yellow wire was bringing ac voltage to my stock regulator and then sent back to power my stock halogen bulb through yellow wire right (in the 6 pin regulator)?

                          Yes, Yellow wire of 6-pin regulator(stock regulator)

                          now the yellow wire is idle right it is not supplying any power to any electrical of my bike right?

                          Yes, Not supplying any AC power for Lighting

                          now the question arises ...how are my ac electrical working ...from where is the power being supplied to them? i cannot c any wire going out of my batter to my hid or horn? can u plz explain this ?

                          As per my knowledge UG3 uses AC lighting power for--> Stock Halogen bulb(35/35w) + Two pilot lamps + small Number plate lamp + Half circuit of Brake Led (It might be converted to DC inside that LED setup) (I am assuming it as it flickers in low voltage, mostly i am true)+ Power for BCU(It can be run by DC but we should be ready for Surprises, as UG3 BCU is designed to handle AC+DC).

                          Thats it. As Your bike has no AC now, all these will be run by DC of your battery(modfication by mechanic) and for this, DC +ve can be taken by number of wires from your wiring. Its not like that you should take it only from battrey +ve wire itself. so you are unable to trace that. Very simple process it is..!!


                          there are some new symptoms in my bike now ...while riding during the day time electric start works for a couple of time horn also works for two times the no sound coming from it.. since i don do much traveling in the bike (aprox 14kms per day ).

                          Symptoms of weak battery. If both cases come true(testing). Remove 4 pin connector and ride the bike for two days without using hid.
                          after that on third day the horns and self start should work as usual without any trouble.

                          Even though doing all these, ifthe battery is not working properly on 4th or 5th day (without using hid at all on any day), you can look it as a battery issue(Because of the damage caused by your parallel charging and your hid setup)

                          and during the night when the hid is on a battery sign starts to flash in the display of my bike ...and no electric start or horn works..

                          Indication of weak battery as you are using your HID

                          what dose these symptoms indicate?
                          dose is say that my battery is dead? or going to be dead? or starving for power? or unable to store power?

                          Read above answer. And any one thing as you have said. But as you are saying its new battery its running on low power, it may get recovered completely once you stop parallel charging and using Hid.

                          thanks srinivas for your patients and time.. i hope i am not irritating you.

                          give me a treat after you have sorted your problem.. hehe

                          will be back with the results soon.





                          Answers in normal fonts

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Re: HID causing battery drain

                            hi...i am back with the data.. i lost my display while conducting one test.

                            with both the regulators the readings in the battery terminals are 14.44 to 15.43 when throttle raised to 3500-4000rpm

                            Now Test it-- >
                            Both Regulators sockets are connected right...????
                            Remove 4-pin socket. start bike and take readings at battery. the voltage will increase.
                            readings for 6 pin regulator -13.84 to13.95 @3500 to 4000 rpm

                            Now Fix that socket back and remove 6-pin socket(If you removed 4pin at first, fix that back and now remove 6pin one). now start bike and take readings at battery. the voltage will increase.
                            Readings for 4 pin regulator -14.52 to14.72 @3500 to 4000 rpm

                            If in both cases either removing 4pin or 6 pin, voltage is increasing.. right..???, its parallel charging.
                            the voltage is almost the same for both the the test. what dose this mean?

                            Your bike is in serious trouble if its parallel charging. Test it as soon as possible.


                            For double confirming Parallel charging do the following.

                            Disconnect battery both +ve and -ve wires (i.e; remove battery connections at battery terminals)


                            Case1:
                            Remove 4-pin connector and keep connected your original Regulator connection(6-pin). Now at the 6-pin socket place leads of multimeter, +ve at white wire, -ve at Black-yellow wire, start bike and check reading. Increasing DC voltage..??
                            readings @ idling starts @4v and as the throttle is raised to 4000rpm it shows 5,6 and >

                            Case2:
                            Remove 6-pin connector and keep connected your 4-pin Regulator . Now at the 4-pin socket place leads of multimeter, +ve at white wire, -ve at Lightgreen-Red wire, start bike and check reading. Increasing DC voltage..??
                            readings @ idling starts @ 9.80v to 20 and above before reaching 4000 rpm

                            while doing the case 2 test i lost my display ...no numbers or lights in the display.

                            in the above data when the readings for 6 pin regulator with battery connection is 13.84 approx and without battery connection is 4 to 8v approx (
                            i have given the acceleration only till 4000 rpm for all the test becoz that's my normal riding speed) dose this mean that my stock regulator is not working properly?
                            becoz according to my knowledge after reading this whole messages the readings in the 6 pin socket (
                            in the white and black -yellow wire which goes for charging the battery)without the battery connected should be above 12volts becoz that's the voltage required for charging the battery right?

                            that's why he has connected the other regulator right ?

                            which one is working fine my stock regulator or the 4 pin regulator?
                            while testing the case 2 i lost my display ,is this due to the high voltage given out by the 4 pin regulator?

                            today after doing all these i disconnected the connection from the 4 pin regulator and started using the stock one only...
                            my hid was running ok with the stock regulator but the horn was not working.

                            what to do i am confused... i am thinking removing the hid and fitting a normal led light in its place.

                            my mechanic told me that a new type of led light which can be directly fitted into the halogen bulb socket has arrived in the market ,he told me to bring everything back to the stock mode and then he will fix that led bulb to the headlights.

                            option 1
                            now in the present condition my hid is running through battery.if i just remove the hid and fix a halogen bulb holder and fix a halogen bulb or led bulb will it work? (
                            becoz in stock mode my halogen bulb was running in ac current ,i could not switch on the lights without starting the engine) will the power consumption from battery will be more than hid or less that hid.

                            or

                            option 2
                            if i change everything back to ac and fix the same halogen or led bulb will it work?
                            ( in this mode i will not be able to switch on the headlights without starting the engine)with this mode atleast i can decrease the load on my battery as the lights will run on direct stator produced ac current .

                            which one is better? option 1 or option 2?


                            dose both the halogen and led bulb work in both ac and dc mode?

                            and at last i have decided i will not replace the display until i sort out this issue.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Re: HID causing battery drain

                              Originally posted by gurudeep View Post
                              hi...i am back with the data.. i lost my display while conducting one test.

                              with both the regulators the readings in the battery terminals are 14.44 to 15.43 when throttle raised to 3500-4000rpm

                              Now Test it-- >
                              Both Regulators sockets are connected right...????
                              Remove 4-pin socket. start bike and take readings at battery. the voltage will increase.
                              readings for 6 pin regulator -13.84 to13.95 @3500 to 4000 rpm

                              Now Fix that socket back and remove 6-pin socket(If you removed 4pin at first, fix that back and now remove 6pin one). now start bike and take readings at battery. the voltage will increase.
                              Readings for 4 pin regulator -14.52 to14.72 @3500 to 4000 rpm

                              If in both cases either removing 4pin or 6 pin, voltage is increasing.. right..???, its parallel charging.
                              the voltage is almost the same for both the the test. what dose this mean?

                              Your bike is in serious trouble if its parallel charging. Test it as soon as possible.


                              For double confirming Parallel charging do the following.

                              Disconnect battery both +ve and -ve wires (i.e; remove battery connections at battery terminals)


                              Case1:
                              Remove 4-pin connector and keep connected your original Regulator connection(6-pin). Now at the 6-pin socket place leads of multimeter, +ve at white wire, -ve at Black-yellow wire, start bike and check reading. Increasing DC voltage..??
                              readings @ idling starts @4v and as the throttle is raised to 4000rpm it shows 5,6 and >

                              Case2:
                              Remove 6-pin connector and keep connected your 4-pin Regulator . Now at the 4-pin socket place leads of multimeter, +ve at white wire, -ve at Lightgreen-Red wire, start bike and check reading. Increasing DC voltage..??
                              readings @ idling starts @ 9.80v to 20 and above before reaching 4000 rpm

                              while doing the case 2 test i lost my display ...no numbers or lights in the display.

                              in the above data when the readings for 6 pin regulator with battery connection is 13.84 approx and without battery connection is 4 to 8v approx (
                              i have given the acceleration only till 4000 rpm for all the test becoz that's my normal riding speed) dose this mean that my stock regulator is not working properly?
                              becoz according to my knowledge after reading this whole messages the readings in the 6 pin socket (
                              in the white and black -yellow wire which goes for charging the battery)without the battery connected should be above 12volts becoz that's the voltage required for charging the battery right?

                              that's why he has connected the other regulator right ?

                              which one is working fine my stock regulator or the 4 pin regulator?
                              while testing the case 2 i lost my display ,is this due to the high voltage given out by the 4 pin regulator?

                              today after doing all these i disconnected the connection from the 4 pin regulator and started using the stock one only...
                              my hid was running ok with the stock regulator but the horn was not working.

                              what to do i am confused... i am thinking removing the hid and fitting a normal led light in its place.

                              my mechanic told me that a new type of led light which can be directly fitted into the halogen bulb socket has arrived in the market ,he told me to bring everything back to the stock mode and then he will fix that led bulb to the headlights.

                              option 1
                              now in the present condition my hid is running through battery.if i just remove the hid and fix a halogen bulb holder and fix a halogen bulb or led bulb will it work? (
                              becoz in stock mode my halogen bulb was running in ac current ,i could not switch on the lights without starting the engine) will the power consumption from battery will be more than hid or less that hid.

                              or

                              option 2
                              if i change everything back to ac and fix the same halogen or led bulb will it work?
                              ( in this mode i will not be able to switch on the headlights without starting the engine)with this mode atleast i can decrease the load on my battery as the lights will run on direct stator produced ac current .

                              which one is better? option 1 or option 2?


                              dose both the halogen and led bulb work in both ac and dc mode?

                              and at last i have decided i will not replace the display until i sort out this issue.

                              As per your readings, both regulators are charging battery and its PARALLEL CHARGING..!!! Its confirmed..!!

                              I thought that you know using multimeter. As you are checking DC at 20Volts setting(Wheel pointer)range in Multimeter and that range has crossed your multimeter might have stopped working..!!!

                              As far as your 6-pin regulator readings they are fine..!!!

                              I explained in a detailed manner and you have not done what i have said....

                              To confirm your bikes stock regulator and battery health, you have to remove 4-pin regulator, drive your bike for a good amount of time(read previous messages) so that you are testing the battery and regulator.

                              YOU SHOULD NOT USE HID OR ANY LIGHTS WHILE DOING THIS...!!!

                              Mann... i have already said that and you are saying HID is working fine.. Then whats the use of all these things...

                              HID doesnt care about anything. if your bike battery has some charge it will work until charge gets finished.

                              First Test your bike as i have said..

                              After riding your bike for good amount of time(Ride a single day for more than 50-60kms if possible, try to drive at 4-5K RPM(or more than that) if possible), test your bike for proper functioning of Horns and selfstarter (Read previous messages, i have given how to test)

                              without these details, i cant help you..

                              One more thing as long as reliability is concerned donot go for any LED lights. First test your bike and revert with results.

                              I will tell you again..

                              1. Remove 4-pin regulator
                              2. Start your bike only with kick and ride for number of kms if possible ride at 4-5K rpm but take care..!!
                              3. Donot use.. Horn, Selfstarter, Hid, or any others while doing the whole test.
                              4. do it for a day(if covered a lot of kms) or do it for 2 days.
                              5. After completing test(use kick at day starting) and after that you should be able to use selfstart when ever you want and horn also. NEVER EVER USE HID EVEN AFTER COMPLETING THE TEST AND COMING BACK HERE...!!!

                              YOU ARE NOT GETTING WHAT I AM SAYING. YOUR BIKE REGULATOR IS INTENDED TO SUPPORT HORN, SELF AND INDICATORS ONLY.
                              AFTER MARKET LEDS ARE POOR IN RELIABLITY AND GIEVS AWFUL LIGHTING AND NOT USEFUL IN FOG AND RAINY CONDITIONS.

                              IF THE MECHANIC IS TRYING TO USE YOUR BIKES AC LIGHTING THEN ALSO RELIABILITY WILL BE AN ISSUE AS UG2 AND UG3 HAVE ALWAYS FLUCTUATING AC THROUGH OUT THE RPM RANGE.

                              DONOT GO FOR ANY LEDS, COME HERE BACK WITH RESULTS..

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Re: HID causing battery drain

                                Originally posted by Srinivas sr143sr View Post
                                As per your readings, both regulators are charging battery and its PARALLEL CHARGING..!!! Its confirmed..!!

                                I thought that you know using multimeter. As you are checking DC at 20Volts setting(Wheel pointer)range in Multimeter and that range has crossed your multimeter might have stopped working..!!!

                                As far as your 6-pin regulator readings they are fine..!!!

                                I explained in a detailed manner and you have not done what i have said....

                                To confirm your bikes stock regulator and battery health, you have to remove 4-pin regulator, drive your bike for a good amount of time(read previous messages) so that you are testing the battery and regulator.

                                YOU SHOULD NOT USE HID OR ANY LIGHTS WHILE DOING THIS...!!!

                                Mann... i have already said that and you are saying HID is working fine.. Then whats the use of all these things...

                                HID doesnt care about anything. if your bike battery has some charge it will work until charge gets finished.

                                First Test your bike as i have said..

                                After riding your bike for good amount of time(Ride a single day for more than 50-60kms if possible, try to drive at 4-5K RPM(or more than that) if possible), test your bike for proper functioning of Horns and selfstarter (Read previous messages, i have given how to test)

                                without these details, i cant help you..

                                One more thing as long as reliability is concerned donot go for any LED lights. First test your bike and revert with results.

                                I will tell you again..

                                1. Remove 4-pin regulator
                                2. Start your bike only with kick and ride for number of kms if possible ride at 4-5K rpm but take care..!!
                                3. Donot use.. Horn, Selfstarter, Hid, or any others while doing the whole test.
                                4. do it for a day(if covered a lot of kms) or do it for 2 days.
                                5. After completing test(use kick at day starting) and after that you should be able to use selfstart when ever you want and horn also. NEVER EVER USE HID EVEN AFTER COMPLETING THE TEST AND COMING BACK HERE...!!!

                                YOU ARE NOT GETTING WHAT I AM SAYING. YOUR BIKE REGULATOR IS INTENDED TO SUPPORT HORN, SELF AND INDICATORS ONLY.
                                AFTER MARKET LEDS ARE POOR IN RELIABLITY AND GIEVS AWFUL LIGHTING AND NOT USEFUL IN FOG AND RAINY CONDITIONS.

                                IF THE MECHANIC IS TRYING TO USE YOUR BIKES AC LIGHTING THEN ALSO RELIABILITY WILL BE AN ISSUE AS UG2 AND UG3 HAVE ALWAYS FLUCTUATING AC THROUGH OUT THE RPM RANGE.

                                DONOT GO FOR ANY LEDS, COME HERE BACK WITH RESULTS..

                                ya i know how to use a multi meter and set the range in it ...the multi meter was not mine ..
                                i borrowed it from the mechanic ...he had set the range and given it to me..

                                but i got the readings right?

                                i know and remember what u have said regarding the test... i cannot do it at present because the distance between my home and my office is 4 kms one way ...in a day i hardly travel 10kms in the bike.. and i have 12 hours shift if i travel one way during day (i.e without the lights ) while returning i should use the lights during return.

                                (run the bike for 40 to 50 kms without any horn self or hid then disconnect the wire from spark plug and crank the engine using self 19 to 20 times if the performance is same as the first cranking for the 21 first time my battery and regulator are fine) this is the test that u told me to do right? i remember it.

                                i think i will not be able to do this test in the near future...but if i get a chance to travel that much i will surely keep the points that u have mentioned in mind and do the tests..


                                but at present from couple of days i have disconnected the 4 pin regulator...and as i said for the range i am traveling i can self start for a couple of times and use horn during the ride... during night its only hid nothing else.

                                "Case1:
                                Remove 4-pin connector and keep connected your original Regulator connection(6-pin). Now at the 6-pin socket place leads of multi meter, +ve at white wire, -ve at Black-yellow wire, start bike and check reading. Increasing DC voltage..??
                                readings @ idling starts @4v and as the throttle is raised to 4000rpm it shows 5,6 and >

                                Case2:
                                Remove 6-pin connector and keep connected your 4-pin Regulator . Now at the 4-pin socket place leads of multimeter, +ve at white wire, -ve at Lightgreen-Red wire, start bike and check reading. Increasing DC voltage..??
                                readings @ idling starts @ 9.80v to 20 and above before reaching 4000 rpm"why there is this much diffrence in reading in this test..
                                since the stock regulator reading is less compared to the 4 pin regulator i thought my regulator has already been destroyed.


                                so going back to stock with the halogen light is the best for the bike and for my purse also i think so.

                                i have one more doubt.
                                is there any difference in the switches used in the bike like ac switches which is ment for the systems running on ac power and dc switches for dc systems?

                                becoz when i installed the HID the electrician told me for the HID to work properly i have to change all the switches as my stock switches were ac compatible and will not work for dc set up is this true?

                                Comment

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