Re: KTM RC 390 Ownership Experience

Congratulations Kiran! You MSted it in style! And congratulations on bringing it back alive. FWIW, nothing can come close to what this machine has to offer. Hope you take it easy after the head job.

Cheers!
VJ

Re: KTM RC 390 Ownership Experience

Thanks for the support , will hope that everything is back to factory specs soon.
The job is yet to be started on the bike, as factories were shut due to lockdown last 2 months, most of the parts stock is very low and there are only few complete Head assembly available in my city, so trying to gather all parts before jumping into the job.

I have 2 questions.
1. Is there anyway to salvage the Head with a re-seleve or re-facing or anything? The reason I'm asking is because as per the SVC repair manual KTM updated the 390 Head post 2017+ model and it has a new valve spring design and it'll be little different from 2013-2016 models. Old version is no longer available from 2 last years as a spare. But they said it should not a deal breaker and new one should be a direct fit on older models aswell. (I know KTM updates design of part to only to improve it, so I think new one will be better)
I've attached the differences is new vs old head which I found on Google Images.

2. I don't understand why exactly the 390 Cylinder assembly cost ₹13K MRP from KTM , even a Duke 200 cylinder assembly costs only ₹3000-₹3800 change MRP part and I even confirmed MRP and saw the actual spare part in SVC for Duke 200/200NS, I know 390 comes with extra Nikasil cylinder coating. I don't see anything extra when I held it hand and feels like just any other cylinder piston block. Just the coating should not bump up the cost so high!
Is it that KTM is just trying to milk the cows while they can? or the cylinder assembly is manufactured using a whole different procedure or is it the metal used is completely different?

New 2017+ Head vs 2013-2016 Head differences

Re: KTM RC 390 Ownership Experience

Initial parts estimate list from SVC, I've checked the current state of the old parts and I feel nothing is being changed unnecessarily, all the below parts have worn out or almost close to end of life.

Estimate

Re: KTM RC 390 Ownership Experience

WTH! KTM is seriously milking the 390 Owners. Cost for Cylinder kit is exceptionally high. How old is your bike and how much miles does she have on the ODO?

Re: KTM RC 390 Ownership Experience

Yes I too feel Cylinder kit pricing is high, everything else is moderately pricing for the performance it offers,
I somehow suspect it's made very differently or imported directly from Austria or something else, but I held both D200 and D390 Cylinder blocks in my hand at SVC to compare and definitely the D390 block felt double the weight of D200 block and build so much stronger overall.

Like I said the old Cylinder Piston were just fine and would've easily ran for another 15-20K kms, it's only being changed due to the damage to inner walls from the failed valve and worn out timing chain, the valve got cut off and damaged it.

Usually all KTM 390 needs a valve shim checkup/adjustment anywhere from 15K-20K kms interval based on how you ride and timing chain/cam replace/checkup at every 25K kms. Which I had not done and was about to take up in next 5000kms service interval, sadly it failed on me before that next service.

Yes, if the ₹6000-8000 valve and cam job would have had been done earlier, it would have saved me a full cylinder piston change for another 15-20K kms.

This is the reason I tell to every person who has just started his work career or to those college kids who are buying from the parents hard earned cash after pestering them to refrain from buying a 390 and stick with KTM D200/RC200, 390 is fun on paper, it looks tempting at around cheap 3L price for a bike with 373cc engine with around ₹10-15K EMI per month, but the bikes needs a lot of passion, time, commitment, stable career and income to maintain this baby in it's best shape, it can make a person go bankrupt otherwise.

Good thing is I already I knew what I was getting myself into and prepared for it. Long back even before I got the bike, I knew price of full cylinder kit and still decided to get my feet wet

Re: KTM RC 390 Ownership Experience

Timing chain is a part that is built to last the life of engine. Why does it need tightening so frequently, if this is true it is poor engineering by KTM.

Re: KTM RC 390 Ownership Experience

I am not sure if they are built to life, timing chain is just any other "chain category type" similar to your rear wheel drive chain sprocket, all chains stretch over time universally be it a Bajaj/KTM/Honda/Ferrari/Ford/Lamborghini etc etc. (Unless it's made of titanium or something)

They wear out over time and stretch (very small micrometer stretches) also the teeths on the cam drives wear out slowly just like your rear wheel sprockets, that's why you've a tensioner! It tightens the timing chain when it stretches by increasing the tension compensating the stretch (Tensioner extends out a bit more from its compressed stated pressing more in against the timing chain)

Eventually the chain stretches beyond the limit of the tensioner to maintain the slack!

Re: KTM RC 390 Ownership Experience

The cylinder kit of the R15 and D390 etc cost a premium as it comes with fancy stuff like DiAsil, NikAsil etc, these cylinders last quite a lot longer than regular cylinders. A xBhpian who used to work for KTM has mentioned that even KTM recommends ring's change than a direct cylinder kit change on the 390's, but ASC's usually go for a direct cylinder change to ensure that its a one time fix.

Hence you can't really blame KTM for the pricing.

As for timing chain, Yes, it is definitely a consumable and it is just a matter of time till it warrants a replacement(Entire Kit) as other than the chain the pads that tension it are made of plastic and even they tend to wear over time. Hence the old rule of thumb, if timing chain noise doesn't go away with changing tensioner the first time, you change the entire kit, no questions asked rather than trying to change tensioner a couple more times until the engine fails.

The 390 is an expensive motorcycle no doubt, a fellow xBhpian from the local chapter has a 2019 D390 that is almost a year old and has clocked 20k km's, he has already replaced his head under warranty due to valve guide noise around the 17k mark under warranty. This is the same person who rode his previous Duke 200 to over 1.2Lakhs before getting the D390, but he is very much satisfied, cause in spite of the niggles, you really can't expect to get this much value for 3L elsewhere.

I know many would mention the RE 650's but trust me, I've ridden the aforementioned D390 and the I650, the Interceptor stands no chance against the D390 by a long shot, if that kinda performance and refinement is what you seek.

Cheers,
A.P.

Re: KTM RC 390 Ownership Experience

May be I am at fault. My regular drives are cars. I rarely ride motorcycle. On every car that I have owned the timing chain life was atleast 1 Lakh kms as per service manual. No tightening, No adjustment of any sort in between. I thought the bikes should also be following the same path. But, I am really disappointed that such critical things need so much of attention at every service. I have never seen or heard of a timing chain failure in any of the bikes, the things you have told e.g. timing chain adjustment every 15-20k kms is what I am not able to digest. We buy the bike with so much passion not to end up worrying about such critical things every now and then. This is purely bad engineering by KTM.

Re: KTM RC 390 Ownership Experience

Adding to what fellow Bhipains have mentioned. There is a reason why the cylinder kit of the 390 is costly vis a vis the Duke 200 and the rest of the KTM Bajaj clone models. They are basically plain aluminum heads with piston that is manufactured locally. Pretty much everything apart from the 390, the KTM cousins are cast, including the pistons, whereas the pistons of the 390 are forged and the cylinder plated with NikaSil. If the information I received is right, the pistons for the D390 is imported and not Made in India. Though the head looks similar to that of the other Dukes, the valves, the springs are completely different. Mind you, the D390 took two years of additional R&D to make it roadworthy when compared to the Duke 200 and the likes.

Here's an excerpt from the Product Deveplpment Engineer himself. Should clear all the doubts.


Let's not forget most aluminum heads these days, especially LC, high compression ones, use expensive coatings and light weight materials to extract the maximum power with reduced friction and engine vibration. Anybody can make an engine, after a couple of years of R&D, but, making a small engine put out almost a fantastic power to weight ratio does require some expensive parts.

The other aspect of Bajaj is continuously improving the products at every iteration, the same is being carried over with KTM. The cylinder has additional recesses for coolant, and the head has a sideward inclination for the recesses provided on the cylinder to aid in cooling, so they continuously try to improve their products, which even though as discreet as it sounds is definitely plus

I can go on another chapter, but I think it will be too much.

Cheers!
VJ

Re: KTM RC 390 Ownership Experience

Yes you are right and I agree to it, cars and bike 4 Japanese superbike companies from say Kawasaki/Yamaha/Honda/Suzuki all have much more durable implementation and are built to have high tolerances when it comes to timing chains and costs much more, when they say built to life, they mean 1.5L-2L kms assuming that's the max mileage 90% of population use their vehicles before they scrap it. They tend to have much better cooling and heat management and bigger surface area to play around.

I know Kawasaki Z800 that has touched 80K+ kms without even needing to be open the valve cover till now which was only used for highway touring at constant 80speed. Even all the twins in India the Yamaha R3 or Ninja 300 or 400 are built to life(relatively)!

But given the heat dissipating monster that single cylinder big cc KTM 390's are known to be, they just tend to wear out at much faster rate. I'm not saying all KTM bikes timings or engine fails prematurely, I also know 2014 naked D390 which has crossed 55K kms without needing a head removal until now except for regular valve shim adjustment.

So it all comes down how you ride at the end of the day, if you just putter around in city traffic and cruise around on highways sanely then yes it'll last much much longer and even cross 50K+ kms. But if you gun the throttle every single time after a speed bump and keep hitting 6-7K rpm before shifting in each gear like me, them it'll wear out as soon as 25K kms!

Can KTM do better job and improve the parts quality and make it more durable like the Japanese bikes?, absolutely 101%! But it'll only increase the overall Ex-showroom cost even more by ₹20-30K! It's either target attractive Ex-showroom price or make a more bike, and we know our Indians will always put buying price first rather then long term durability and KTM knows it too! Thats why they have kept their spares so cheap to cater the broken down bikes and make the blow softer. We all know how everyone are complaining about the cost of spares GS310R/G310R/RR310.

If everyone chose durability or price then we would've only seen CB300R, R3, N300, N400's filled on our roads! But the roads are only filled with KTM's and reason is pretty clear why!

Re: KTM RC 390 Ownership Experience

Hey guys,
It's been around 8 months from my last service and had got an oil change then, next service is due and do I need to change it again as I couldn't ride much due to exams and lockdown, the oil level cant be seen so thought of topping up by another 50-100 ml. Second the bike runs hot, so which coolant would you guys suggest, currently I have the green one which SVC puts.
Next, the mileage has gone for a toss, I'm getting single digit mileage some times, it hovers between 9-11 kmpl, I've seen it from tank to tank method like 3 times, but when I take it out for longer rides I'm getting like 27-30. Any other suggestions to look out for a 3.5 yr old bike, please be free to suggest.
Thanking in advance for your input.

Re: KTM RC 390 Ownership Experience

Thanks a lot for confirming and explaining the hidden details behind the D390 Cylinder & Pistons which is not known to many,
So I was right on my hunch!
No wonder now that I know why 390 block weight feels almost double from the 200 block and why just the piston alone cost ₹8.5K change and the cylinder block ₹5K change making the grand total of ₹13.5K for the kit!
I feel less sad about it now to pay ₹13.5K just the kit now that I know the fact!

Re: KTM RC 390 Ownership Experience

You should've gone for Japanese twins like ninja 300 and R3 . They are much more reliable than the KTM's.

Re: KTM RC 390 Ownership Experience

First off, I'd suggest you drain your engine oil completely if you've clocked more than 3k KMS from your last oil change. You can use Engine Ice or Motul MotoCool Expert, both are good coolants. You can use Honda's Coolant. The coolant that comes for the CBR 250R, excellent stuff, and I personally prefer and would suggest this. Too little oil and coolant will definitely overheat the engine, so make sure these are thoroughly checked during your service regimen. Make sure you have your tire pressure double checked, poor tire pressure will eat you mileage.

Cheers!
VJ