I don't mean ALL guys owning bike from ..... has that attitude , as i myself have one previously from same manufacturer & i have some friend on xbhp currently owning bike from that manufacturer but don't have that view towards other manufacturer.

But still if you consider yourself as from those guys posting negative things then reread my post above or check below .

BTW i don't want to go further out of topic as this topic is for new Apache RTR & i am waiting to hear the official words from TVS on changes & new things . New product from any manufacturer is always exciting for me .

What you did not understand is back in 2008, xBHP server had crashed and 90% users were deleted. How would you explain it now?

Also, I am a Junior Noob too. But I joined a long long time AFTER the name change.

@Saipranav look around outside, on non xBHP platforms and check how is their response to this new Apache.

What i have understand is , xbhp was bajajpulsar.com in past .
So obviously almost all members at that time owning a bike from .....
Now with xbhp these guys also become older ( or call them as senior )
When any other manufacturer bike is making some heat , i don't know what happens to them but they starts pointing all negative thing in that bike or manufacturer & prefer to compare it with ......
Or if they won't then some new guys who owns bike from that same manufacturer starts posting negative things, then the senior guys neither report nor ask those guys to stop posting useless things .
Mods , Admins are late to take action on it .
Which results in a brand war & most of guys view towards xbhp chages .
As "people in this forum are so negative about all brands except ...."

And interesting thing is one of upcoming bike even without testing or ownership they claiming as much more refined & VFM . But no other brands owner have any problem with it , but we are more happy & excited to welcome it . But which won't happen from these guys for other manufacturers bike .

Buddy, dont go by the looks of the engine. The RTR internals are totally different, right from the clutch assembly to the transmission they are different. The Fiero [I still have one] had one of the weakest clutch, on my rebored Fiero I have probably changed the clutch plates a dozen times. The RTR on the other hand has one of the strongest clutches can take hell a lot of abuse. They are different, let us give TVS credit where they deserve.

My only wish is the top management at TVS should go else they better sell their R&D unit to Hero, they will lap it up and then we can see the real stuff. TVS has a confused management, they launched a liquid cooled 150 in Indonesia around 6 months back and here they sell the same old engine.

Also a word on their design team, for god sake please outsource it to some european firm else give it to some young boys here at xbhp they will do a better job. How do they approve such poor designs

OT: Can we say the grab rails of the new Pulsar 200NS is copied from Apache??

Just give a thought: wait for the new Apache to officially introduced and see in flesh and we can then comment what IS wrong, please. While most hate the redesign, lets wait a few days to see the actual product!

Can't say Much as I don't indulge in history such as these.

Glad that You agree.


This is where I would like to talk. You say that TVS is copying from BAL, in terms of their strategies for their products, I don't know what the hell do you mean? Are You talking about technologies? Then could You tell Me a bike with 160cc and a FI? Can You Mention Me one bike with ABS in 180 cc? Oh and don't forget the Rear LED 's too!
If You are talking about design, then the Scoops, the specialized Split Grab Rails would like to say something too! Plus the white color too!

If TVS is copying BAL, then why is still a 180cc Apache still the fastest in 0 to 60 in a drag?

So, after reading all these points, would You care to mention how TVS is a copycat image of BAL.

And if You are talking about being unique, one might say that BAL is too copying from a foreign company.

No pun or offence intended, just wanted to clarify the doubts here.

Peace.

Well "Speedlines" is just marketing speak just like the marketing guys give fancy names like "Blood Red / Scarlet Red" to colors.. but "Hyperedge" is printed on the last (expecting it to be replaced by the latest upgrade) RTR 160's tank scoop.


Nah.. don't worry, none taken.

May be your friend doesnt know how to maintain his bike, my friend bought a Hyperedge and its butter smooth... i love it... I have a rugged RTR 180 and i love it too...

@payeng
I dont mean to offend you or start a fight or anything but i think you are cribbing too much about the name... o have seen you talk about it too many times(I read your blog) seriously, does anyone call the P220 and "Bajaj pulsar 220 Speedlines"? NO! they just call it speedlines(my friends do) same goes with other bikes.
I'm a great fan of your blog man. Hope you dont take my comment negatively.

I'm also disappointed with the marketing strategies of TVS and their super slow developments...
I dont mean to hurt the sentiments of anybody but the following is just my observation/opinion or whatever... you can ignore it if you dont like it.
I dont understand why people in this forum are so negative about all brands except bajaj. When Honda did a mistake with nuts and bolts and rectified it then a huge fuss is made about it, but when Duke had mileage problems and vibration problems from headlight assembly, every body is like "Every bike has it drawback, you should live with it.... who wants mileage from a performance bike" and what not.

May be my analyzation of the people on this forum is wrong... but i just felt like writing this because people are trying to bring out every issue TVS had with RTR till now... and i just hate the way people complain about vibrations, dont like it dont buy it! Whats the point cribbing about it, hope i dont start awar

apache was a compleat new platform for tvs rest engine was inspired or rebored .....tell me any thing what tvs copied what BAL did.....

Even though I am not an Apache Owner, I am not sure about the reduction in vibrations.. the Apache RTR 160 Hyperedge (definitely one of the longest names) still vibrates more than any other bikes out there. I did not feel a noticeable change.

The engine block and externals of the Fiero and Apache does appear same, but internally the Fiero's engine was a long stroke torquey unit whereas the Apache (expecially the) RTR had a short stroke engine and this happened after Suzuki and TVS parted ways..

..therefore one can't really label that the Apache isn't TVS's effort without Suzuki.

the apache had that suzuki gene and tvs never was able to develop their own platforms expect for victor (correct me if i wrong)like bajaj did for the pulsars from scratch without kawasaki's help.The suzuki gene i talked about was that the base platform for the apaches were suzuki's (fiero's unit) which they seem to gave it away to tvs. Yes of course tvs worked a hell of a lot of sweat on that platform to make the apache,the crouching hooligan it is today and that is something commendable and deserves the full due credit. But,have any one thought of what would have been tvs right now if they hadn't got that base platform from suzuki at the first place.my point is that they are lazy and slow in introducing something indigenous like what BAL had done the pulsars,and IN TERMS OF MARKETING,big copycats of strategies for their products(from pulsars). i am not against the brand apache which i repeat but against tvs's approach towards the brand.Every time i have observed what tvs has been doing for the apache brand and was sad to find that it was and still is mimicking exactly what BAL does for pulsar. In short what tvs is actually doing to apache is creating a copycat image.why tvs ? Brand image and marketing seems to be what is driving the tombstone on the apache if you ask me...tvs if you are listening, stop following bajaj, and take risks and plan well and try to act like bajaj instead of following every move by them and with that i mean,be totally different and stay unique like what bajaj has been doing with their pulsars.wishing all the best for tvs and apache.

You think its 180 ?? I think its hand made at home !!

I found this pic on facebook i think it is a 180 without ABS

yes rtrs have improved a lot when it comes to refinement but one of my personal experience as a pillion i found myself the original engine of the suzuki fiero more refined although it felt a little under powered than the apache 150 n rtr's units. it seems tvs was able to make more power out of that original suzuki based units but seem to have destroyed that engine's refinement and finesse in the process.hmm i guess some things have to be compromised for other things.

After your previous post on the same thread, How achaanakly (==suddenly) RTR180 became an RTR160 incremental upgrade? Did anyone here count the 220Fi/200NS as an incremental upgrade of the P150?

As for RTR160 Rear Disc, it was never a new version. The Drum version wasn't discountinued. Same case as optional front disc on a Discover 125. Also AFAIK right now, there is no Rear Disc variant of the RTR160 for sale right now (Now available only on FI).
Sources:


There is nothing new in a manufacturer making nifty little changes in the motorcycle without being vocal about it. My P220 is different from Pads' / Vkavadia's P220 which is different from the speedlines P220. As an owner of the 1st Gen P220 carb, I can tell the difference. And when considering the differences, I am also talking about are internal, not sticker/paint jobs like speedlines.

If you ask a certain Aditya Bhelke, Payeng or Praful about the unpublicised changes that happened in the P220 Fi from 2007 to 2009, you wouldn't believe that BAL was making internal changes to the bike practically every second week .