Re: Triumph Motorcycles Launch 10 motorcycles in India : Price, specs and more

I am glad that I went ahead and bought the Ninja 300. Now I can buy another quarter liter or sub 600 and trick the heck out of both the bikes for less than the price of the Daytona.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Re: Triumph Motorcycles Launch 10 motorcycles in India : Price, specs and more

^^^ Sweet

tring tring....... tring tring........ Daytona is not reachable as of now, please try again later!

Re: Triumph Motorcycles Launch 10 motorcycles in India : Price, specs and more

On the road prices Mumbai. Got this message from a friend.

Bonneville 5.7 Lakhs > On the Road Mumbai-6.6 Lakhs

Bonneville T100 6.6L > 7.65L

Thruxton 6.7L > 7.77L

Street Triple 7.5 > 8.7L

Speed Triple 10.5L > 12.18L

Thunderbird Storm 13L > 15.08L

Rocket 3 20L > 23.2L

Tiger 800 XC 12L > 13.92L

Tiger Explorer 17.9l > 20.76L

Daytona 11.4L > 13.2L

Re: Triumph Motorcycles Launch 10 motorcycles in India : Price, specs and more

+1 to the perspective, superbly argued. The "Sir" is an appellation of courtesy usually observed in earlier times for such discussions. It instantly removes tendencies towards rude and ungentlemanly language and helps keep the debate on an intellectually stimulating plane.

There are, in my reading, only two reasons for the admittedly strange pricing of the Daytona. I am speculating these reasons as a guess, namely:

A) Triumph wants to pitch it as a premium performance bike ergo the premium price based on aspirational values of the brand and associated product. It hopes to make super profits on the bike and in doing so, balance the margin losses suffered on other models. In this, Triumph protects its branding philosophy much like Apple does in fones and will not cater to the hoi polloi as a matter of principle. It does not believe in commoditization of the niche occupied by Daytona. And indeed, this is the concept(brand values and philosophy) which is going to hit Triumph very hard if and when it contemplates a 250cc bike, as has been spoken about in the websphere. More on this later.

B) There is/are some issues about differential rates of customs duty on the parts mix making up the Daytona kit. Which parts are sourced from Thailand and which from Hinckley? As an analogy, I remember a case of some years vintage regarding the gearbox of the humble Maruti 800. The tech for this critical item was not given by Suzuki to Maruti on the then cogent grounds that India did not have the scope to absorb the tech and translate it into a finished product as per Suzuki's standards. Therefore, a time came when the entire car was manufactured in India barring the gearbox which was imported in its entirety, as an assembly, from Japan. This issue was a major bone of contention in the JV and the source of much irritation and resentment in the relationship as, with time and increased industrialisation, India did come to possess the ability to manufacture the GB. But the tech was still withheld leading to a suspicion that Suzuki was purposely using it as a lever to prevent Maruti from breaking free of the dependency. Ultimately, the tech was given and Maruti started manufacturing the gearbox too. However, before it was, the price of the car was quite higher than what it should been only on account of the import duties levied on the major assembly i.e. gearbox. Some such issue seems to prevail in the Daytona R case too in a different manner wherein, certain critical parts/sub-assemblies are manufactured in Hinckley and others in Thailand and the whole kit is then sent to India. Naturally, only the parts made in Thailand would enjoy the FTA benefits while the others would be taxed higher.

I personally do not subscribe to Case A simply because the volumes do not justify the sticker shock; at the launched price, there simply won't be enough numbers of Daytonas sold for the equilibrium point to be reached. The company is highly professional in its operations and would be fully aware of the backlash from the market (and here, the worst scenario is present - brand new, Third World, emerging economy, price-critical entry market of highly aware prospects)were it to announce this high a price at launch itself. This negative reaction is already evident from various posts on this thread alone, leave aside other fora on and off the internet. The company is definitely not intent on suicide as is witnessed in the methodical manner of its entry into India vis-a-vis that of Ducati. Now that the initial reaction is anything but positive, much brainstorming would be going on at Triumph HQ to re-think the Daytona R itself as an initial offering and substitute it with the standard Daytona.

I personally believe in Case B especially considering the hi-end components of the Daytona R. Who knows, the parts may well be imported into Thailand, layered with Thai duties which are then passed on to India. A case in point is just one part - the intake valve. Which in the D-R is made of titanium which is extremely difficult to work on (I know that with my interest in aviation and aerospace tech). If it is not produced in Thailand and imported from Hinckley, duties rise, ipso facto costs to manufacturer rise, ergo price to customer rises. There may be some other such parts too like the Ohlins setup etc which cause a jump on the costs and the price.

Yes, most definitely, they will get a very rude shock while accepting bookings and I anticipate the D-R being pulled for the std D. Fingers crossed, eh

Re: Triumph Motorcycles Launch 10 motorcycles in India : Price, specs and more

so how does one book in NCR ??

cheers

Re: Triumph Motorcycles Launch 10 motorcycles in India : Price, specs and more

I don't know which comment of HyperRetard you are talking about..

Anyway, it seems you have misread most of my sentences. Let me make myself clear.
1. I never said that the Daytona and the Ninja are the same bikes. I very well know the differences between a sport tourer and supersport. Never did I say that both of them need to be priced equally. What I meant was D675 costs 1.6875 times the N650 in the USA. If the same scale of pricing would have been applied here in India, it would have cost 8.45 Lakh(i.e N650's 5.01L*1.6875). I never said that the D675R should cost 5L like the Ninja. I don't see any reason why that same scale cannot be applied here as both face similar percentage of taxes, both being CKD.

2. I never said that the Daytona should cost the same here as in USA. D675R costs 8.45L on road in USA. If the pricing scale that I mentioned in point 1 is followed, it would have become 8.45L ex-showroom/10.15L on road in India. If Kawa managed to get a $8K bike to India at 5.01L ex-sh, then Triumph should definitely be able to bring it at 8.45L ex-sh as both are CKD. Not to mention Kawa isn't making any losses by selling the bike at that price. The costs added are on the basis of percentage. So, the price should increase in a multiplicative way. If economics are to be brought up here, why only Daytona is affected and not the Ninja?

3. By the term 'dirty bucks', I didn't mean that the money that the customers spend is dirty. What I meant was that the way that Triumph is making those extra bucks is dirty by overpricing some models. Also, no need to address me as 'sir'

I think you have not taken a look at the pricing difference between the models. If the weaking INR and other taxes are to be blamed, the price increase would have been linear across all the models. But Daytona shows the steepest increase. Even if the non R daytona is considered, it won't be cheaper than 10L and even at that point, the increase stands at 42.86% which is the highest which clearly shows Triumph's intention of making more money due to the lack of competition.

PS By multiplying the numbers, I'm giving the advantage to Triumph, not the other way around.
For e.g,(All the numbers quoted are just as an example, I don't know the exact tax percentage) if the prices of both the bikes in USA are considered as base prices for both i.e 500657 for Ninja with today's exchange rate and 844902 for D675R, both will face similar taxes as they follow similar CKD routes. Assuming that 20% tax is applicable here,
N650's cost becomes 500657+20% = 600788
D675's cost becomes 844902+20% = 1013882

Thc N650's on road price is within the amount obtained. The D675's on road price is about 3.5L more than the number obtained.

Considering the actual OTR price of N650 of 547831 mentioned by you, Ninja is being sold for 9.42% more than the US price.
Considering D675R's OTR of 1350000, it is being sold for 33.15% more than the US price.
If it was for taxes or the INR or our country's economy alone, the difference wouldn't have been so steep.

Re: Triumph Motorcycles Launch 10 motorcycles in India : Price, specs and more

you got me wrong on the ninja.

I was not comparing bikes.

was comparing the mode of operation of getting ninja here and selling it and yet pricing it sanely.

It too is bought in ckd from thailand assembled here and sold, same what triumph is gonna do so the justification of pricing it higher than what was declared goes to show that either they grossly miscalculated stating up operations in India (quite possible) or they want to cash in more profits now or probably adjust the prices such way that whatever plans they might have submitted to management are justified.

all depends on response now and I feel they are in for a rude shock.

Re: Triumph Motorcycles Launch 10 motorcycles in India : Price, specs and more



Your post is fundamentally incorrect at each and every level, as I would now like to explain.

1: There is no such thing as a wind blast gauge. Period.

2: I do believe that what you are referring to is the Wind Tunnel.

3: Wind tunnel is used for doing aerodynamic testing. Of the Vehicle. The result when calculated gives the drag coefficient. For example Ferrari F12Berlinetta is 30% more fuel efficient as to the predecessor, courtesy a less drag.

4: Every rider has different dimensions, so the results will be different for different rider will be different. Thus you cant measure drag in a bike, unlike in a car. Also on a bike, more than one positions are possible, crouched, upright, etc etc, so there goes you logic.

5: Lastly it is about getting a wind tunnel in the first place. A wind tunnel costs 40-50 million US $ to build. F1 Framework: Inside wind tunnels Can Triumph afford it???

And as for me being restless, my posts per day is 0.18. Talk about being restless. And go get a life.

Re: Triumph Motorcycles Launch 10 motorcycles in India : Price, specs and more


Street Triple will be 7.6L Ex-showroom Bangalore. Add Road tax of 13.3% and Insurance of ~15K plus dealership charges of 5K. Should cost you 8.8L On-road Bangalore.

Re: Triumph Motorcycles Launch 10 motorcycles in India : Price, specs and more

[MENTION=13163]darkknight[/MENTION]. That vada pav one was as tasty as the actual stuff. I remember somebody on a shoestring tour of Europe agonising over a street-side ice cream for EUR 4 which was about Rs 250 then. 250 bucks for an ice cream cone!

I think that a large number of us lose sight, at times, that Triumph (both the bike and the bra!) are premium BRANDS right across their portfolio. The Bonneville too IS a relatively premium brand and I have my serious doubts as to how many riders would be able to afford the machine even in the UK. Certainly not college-goers and young professionals just into a job. And willy-nilly, one has to pay premium prices for premium brands. Period.

I tend to agree with you on the company spreading the costs of land acquisition, tooling up, installation of factory and dealers and the entire complex SCM process on the exotics from the Daytona upwards. I don't know about the duty structure with Thailand for such kits. If the kits are coming from an SEZ, then the prices would be high, I suppose.

IMO, the Ninja 650 is more on a plane with the Street Triple than the Daytona, leave alone the Daytona R. And yet, the Street Triple is leagues ahead in performance - 105bhp vs the Ninja's 71. So we are talking about apples and oranges...

All the models above the Bonneville platform seem to adopt some price skimming strategy, to some extent. The enhanced aspirational value of the Daytona seems to have given some license to the company to pitch it high.

[MENTION=42069]pcgamer[/MENTION]. I am tempted to echo HyperRetard's comment here as you do not seem to realise the existential difference between a normal middleweight Jap bike like the Ninja 650 and a high performance one like the Daytona. Reading the spec sheet of the two should make matters clearer. You have addressed your post to me therefore I am obliged to reply.

Also, if the world was a fair place, with perfect competition and perfect economies, the Daytona would have cost the same in India as it does in the US. I myself don't know the intricate details of global manufacturing and shipping and off-shore assembly so shall not attempt to pull a fast one here by shooting my mouth off.

India thinks thru its wallet. Therefore, we can easily make comparisons between the Bonneville and the Ninja 650 as we thrive on VFM. Today, in India, the competitor to every middleweight bike, regardless of gizmos and gadgetry and traction control and what have you is the Ninja 650 purely on account the hole in the pocket. I too had made a deal with myself. If the Bonneville exceeded my ceiling of 6L ESR, I would not take it and carry on with my combo of CBR 250 and Pulsar 150 Classic. Thankfully, it has not. Yet, I am thinking about the OTR too. And at my stage and age, I do think it worthwhile to allow myself the additional 70K odd extra to acquire a motorcycle I will ride till I croak. Simple.

Sir, it does not behoove a member to use terms like "dirty bucks". Even as we debate here, there would be hard-working persons trying to put aside the amount for the Daytona, like I have done for the Bonneville. I am sure their money is not dirty and that they are willing to pay the high price to own what is the best middleweight bike in the world - the Daytona R. Not my words, the words of most professional bike forums and magazines.

Yes, it hurts that the price of the bike is significantly higher at launch that what was promised. Perhaps, the standard Daytona will redress the grievance to some extent. We should wait for that bit of news.

Re: Triumph Motorcycles Launch 10 motorcycles in India : Price, specs and more

Just to put it on record,

Triumph will have 9 dealerships across India by the end of this fiscal year. This will be achieved in 2 phases. The first phase will see dealerships opening in Bangalore and Hyderabad in December. Triumph Delhi and Mumbai dealerships will be opening by January 2014.

Bookings will start by second week of December for all the bikes and the deliveries will start by first week of January.

Re: Triumph Motorcycles Launch 10 motorcycles in India : Price, specs and more

Relax buddy...
according to me wind blast is manageable up to 110-120....

Re: Triumph Motorcycles Launch 10 motorcycles in India : Price, specs and more

Assuming that Street Triple will cost around ₹7.8 lakhs ex showroom in Bangalore (₹30k more than Delhi) and going by the quotes of N650 by [MENTION=33779]icemang[/MENTION], Street Triple will cost around ₹8.52 lakhs. This is my first automobile purchase so I'm not sure about my assumption. Does this look right?

PS: I had exactly 8 lakhs to throw for Triumph on the launch date & these estimates are a little disappointing but I guess, I'll manage.

Re: Triumph Motorcycles Launch 10 motorcycles in India : Price, specs and more

Triumph Rocket III review in India by xBhp When Devil chose the Number 3 : Triumph Rocket 3 First Impression


In case you guys are interested in it. This was done way back in 2008!

Re: Triumph Motorcycles Launch 10 motorcycles in India : Price, specs and more

this two changes will prove wrong for them, I hope so!
non linear characteristics of price change tells that, price changes are more motivated by strategy than inflation and suffering INR.
they decided to make maximum money from more sellable bikes.