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**JS16** · 12-22-2016, 03:07 PM

Re: Bajaj Dominar 400 Launched at 1.36 Lakh with 35Ps and 35Nm!

Nobody wants to harm the company where they have shares.

If they made the D400 as quick or sorted like the D390 it would eat up D390 sales.
Bajaj is Targeting 10000 units a month. KTM doesn't seen 10000, both combined.

It's all about brand and product placement. And there is no point fighting here. Buy either of these and you will not really fall short of power. The D400 is an affordable bigger displacement Motorcycle and D390 is the hooligan among the two but comes at it's own price.

**Divya Sharan** · 12-22-2016, 03:51 PM

Re: Bajaj Dominar 400 Launched at 1.36 Lakh with 35Ps and 35Nm!

Guys, posts in this thread are just making me laugh!
No, BAL didin't strip nikasil coating and plonk cheap parts. That's what your friendly neighborhood garage waala does. CBR250R can't be compared to this bike. It may be reliable but 2011 has had horror stories from that bike too. So, chill! Half the owners are just being jealous and naive.

And please the name is Dominar.

If you can't spell the name properly, your points don't hold any water because you're talking OT (some other bike) in this thread.

BAL owns majority stake in KTM. It owns KTM and its assets. It has the right to use ITS own engines.
Please study the difference between DOHC and SOHC. This isn't a copy paste job. And please avoid talking nonsense here.

Thanks!

**VaibhavPisal** · 12-22-2016, 04:49 PM

Re: Bajaj Dominar 400 Launched at 1.36 Lakh with 35Ps and 35Nm!

cbr and duke are obvious competitors to dominar. why they shouldn't be compared?

**Chandan92** · 12-22-2016, 04:59 PM

Bajaj Dominar 400 Launched at 1.36 Lakh with 35Ps and 35Nm!

Originally posted by VaibhavPisal View Post

cbr and duke are obvious competitors to dominar. why they shouldn't be compared?

Comparing bikes is not bad but other two bikes which you are mentioning is in the market for quite a long time and dominar is new in the market.

I would wait and observe the ownership of dominar for atleast 4-5 months before comparing it to other bikes.

**leech** · 12-22-2016, 05:10 PM

Re: Bajaj Dominar 400 Launched at 1.36 Lakh with 35Ps and 35Nm!

When I wrote stripped, and plonked, they were figuratively used. What I meant is, the dissimilarities between the same engine. I think Divya bhai endorses the viewpoint of the Dominar engine being KTM tech.

I do know the difference between DOHC and SOHC, I summarised in my comments because I'm lazy as *uck.

**Doga** · 12-22-2016, 07:09 PM

Re: Bajaj Dominar 400 Launched at 1.36 Lakh with 35Ps and 35Nm!

Originally posted by xionite View Post

Wonder why Bajaj don't have a Black D400.

Sorry. No Indian bike manufacturer is capable of "coming up with something great in-house"

There's no beating around the bush here; There aren't any Indian engineers in India who have the brains to build an Inline 4 'in-house.'

Hero/Bajaj would have to BUY the technology. Heck, Even the D400 exists purely because of the KTM 390.

History kinda repeated itself with the RC390/D400 just like the Kawasaki Eliminator/ Bajaj Avenger.

If you open up a Kawasaki Eliminator and compare it to the innards of a Bajaj Avenger... the Eliminator engine is a thing of beauty.

There is very little hope for this generation to see a proper Superbike from India. It's a hard pill to swallow.

But Indian manufacturers are the equivalent of academic backbenchers.

ALL companies around the world run with their primary motivation being profit.

But, in India, these losers want to be protected by the government and continually just build 100/200cc scooters/bikes forever.

In a third world country, there is zero scope (technologically/financially) for an 'in-house' superbike.

India has bigger problems to solve. Like building proper roads and infrastructure, and educating Indians on the meaning of civic sense.

Yes, eventually it will happen. It will be decades later.

The Pulsar 180 came out more than 15 years ago. And now we have a decent 400cc. But this 400cc would not have existed if not for KTM tech.

.

You make some sweeping statements but I could make very little sense of it honestly. This may be my lack of comprehension or more likely you straying away from the point.You say "There aren't any Indian engineers in India who have the brains to build an Inline 4 'in-house." That really is condescension towards your own kind. Really? Why do you think so? This argument can be extended to say no Indian software engineers have the brain or is capable of coming up an in house software product. Because I don't see any popular Indian written OS out there. And don't point to other products or ideas which are simply copied from western giants(snapdeal, flipkart, paytm, blah blah are not some new radical concept, all copies of western ideas). I assume you are the regular software guy typing away from office, so how does it feel to know that the guy in Paolo Alto is better than you , is more inventive? It's what you think really not me, so may be you are ok with it.

You say Indian companies are losers and want government protection. Losers because no inline 4? Or losers because they have been living off tech transfers and stuff? I know this is a fact. But what's the reason for it? I'd think the reason is motivation.
What does the market want?
Activa.
What do we make?
Bajaj Quasar-inline 4, liquid cooled with all the electrotechnowizardry out there by spending millions
how many do we sell?
zilch!
what? So why do we make it?
Because armchair critics want who themselves won't be able to buy btw.
yeah right!

I can argue the above by giving an example of a completely different industry. For example, the Indian pharma industry. They make cheap generic copies and sell it to Asia/Africa. Why haven't they come up with a revolutionary medicine for an incurable ailment? I can argue that the incentive is not there. Who would buy a $10000/month dose for a heart ailment in India. Why do it when profits can had by selling antibiotics/anti retrovirals in Africa and India? The western pharmas for the same reason don't invest in antibiotics research and would only work on diseases which afflict their population. For instance hypertension, cancer. They won't worry about TB. See it's all about what the markets want.
Actually, part of your comment above answers itself really, there are bigger things and worries. The desi superbike will come when conditions are right. When the desi's have enough purchasing power to justify these models.It's not coming now not because desi engineers/companies do not have the brains for it. it's not coming now because the public/infra is not ready for it.

Originally posted by leech View Post

Doga - the British motorcycles companies actually built motorcycles before the Jap imports came in. Name one Indian company which built a fresh, new, indigenous motorcycle before British and Jap tech came to India.
Hero was making bicycles before. RE was a British company. Ashok Leyland? British. Hindustan Motors built cars based on European cars.
Hero and Bajaj and Maruti Udyog cannot, even now, make a reliable engine inhouse, even if they had 50,000 crore to spend on RnD. That's why they enter into a partnership with a foreign "tech partner" with their tails down.

So what's the point?I just said they weren't protected by the government or adapted quickly enough and became extinct. British and Jap tech started coming in when Indian industry was in its nascent stages really. British had so much of headstart over the japs. They had the industrial revolution, the imperial conquests but even then they became extinct because the didn't adapt. I can use your argument and turn it on you. name one Jap company which invented any motorcycle before the Europeans built theirs? Oops none. They all learned from European tech. They are incapable of invention. They perfected an idea which was invented by the Europeans. So they are just an implementer. Refining a forumula which was already out there. Gosh this post would not be out of place ina white supremacist site lol.

The problems you mentioned with Jap bikes were due to cost cutting and "cheapest bidder" economics, which were solved with the later models, not because of lack of technology. Wrong example, mate.
And what's the source of this? You didn't do any research really? You just wrote it cause you had reply. It'd have taken time to actually do some reading and lookups of course. The Suzuki frames cracked not because the frame metallurgy was bad-the supplier implements the agreed metallurgy-as in how it was cast/forged, what exact percentages of metal/carbon etc were used- which would have meant a supplier went lazy. It was in fact due to lazy welds by robots. The welds were not deep enough and didn't penetrate all the way in. This most likely was due to a bug in the machine software which actuated the robotic welders. I anyway didn't mean lack of technology. I just wanted to say the Jap companies which follow high standards can make mistakes(again not due to lack of tech but due to lack of quality control) when they launch something totally new.The welds were done in suzuki factory, so they can't blame the supplier.Even if it's a supplied part they are responsible for final quality control right? By your argument, Bajaj can simply point to bharat forge and say the metallurgy was not good hence the pulsar engine seized or the RC alloy wheel cracked.

And don't blame the Indian mentality and bigger scheme of things for lack of products from Indian companies. ISRO is doing a marvelous job, but they don't make motorcycles.
The Duke 200, you own, is a result of foreign technology. You actually believed Bajaj made them? Even the Chetak was based on an Italian scooter Vespa Sprint.
If it was only about money, then Indians would be ruling the world now. But it never was about money alone. Technology is the reason we failed to check invaders, and technology is the reason why we are a third world country.
So basically you mean you, me and by extension any Indian company or institution are not upto standards? You can as well argue that ISRO hasn't put people on the moon or even space. Holy crap, they are just incapable. Putting some bunch of super light satellites in orbit, but no really heavy thing like a space station module.Look at he Chinese. They have made leaps and bounds in tech, even education and original research output and not just in copying western models. But their motorcycle industry is still not much ahead of ours, even though in other areas, be it space exploration, defence tech, infra they are light years ahead. The market conditions were just not right. So despite the government giving them a free hand(no copyright compulsions etc) they haven't really come up with an inline four,

I am sorry but don't see your point. See my comments inline.

Again. What's your point? yes of course the Dominar is for people who can't afford the duke 390 or RC390 and they are ready to make some compromises. It's made to a cost and for a purpose and of course Bajaj needs to keep the duke specs away from Dominar to prevent cannibalization.But what does that prove?
Using your argument, Honda CBR250R is for people who could not afford a Ninja 250 or a Ninja 300. It's a poor man's quarter litre sport bike and the R in the name is really a misnomer as it's the farthest removed from a sport bike as is possible. It's porky, doesn't feel exciting, is not refined as a twin Ninja, the switchgear doesn't feel premium and imitates the VFR and not even the CBR family. Honda India launched it in India because they are incapable of creating pure sports bike like the CBR600RR which Honda Japan and Honda Europe does.
Oh wait, it doesn't make sense, because I think they launched it as they thought the Indian buyer doesn't have the money for a twin screamer RR. This holds true even now, so the 250RR or 300RR(if made) won't come to India. If it comes, it won't sell, right?
With that I bring an end to my participation in this slightly off topic discussion which admittedly was started by me. Hope this doesn't anger the mod Gods!

**Divya Sharan** · 12-22-2016, 07:33 PM

Re: Bajaj Dominar 400 Launched at 1.36 Lakh with 35Ps and 35Nm!

Back to Dominar please!

**niku** · 12-22-2016, 09:17 PM

Re: Bajaj Dominar 400 Launched at 1.36 Lakh with 35Ps and 35Nm!

5 of us, Xbhp Chennai folks test rode the Dominar last Sunday morning after our Xbhp Chennai Ride.
PS: I am not a Speed lover. I don't watch Moto GP. I don't know much tech details about bikes. I have been to track day but not a track lover. More of a tourer.

Bajaj scores!

The bike was in run-in so I didn't want to kill it. Kept under 6.5k rpm and the bike did 120kmph+ easily.
The bike did well in traffic as well, did some dance in traffic too.
I didn't feel any weight in the front (unlike the 200NS)
I didn't have a chance to press the rear brakes, the front disc was perfect for me.
Both rider and pillion seats are nice. Not many bikes have a good pillion seat nowadays.
I didn't feel any vibes (I would have done 130kmph max) but the Thud sound when downshifting is there. I have it in my 390 as well.

I find it as a refined version of the aggressive Duke 390.
I would say Dominar is a win for Bajaj and also I hope this bike will rewrite some record books (in terms of sales in this segment with pricing having a major role in it)

I would post a pic from the test ride shortly.

I ride ZMR and D390 and I have crossed 1L kms.

**Jon Niranjan Paul** · 12-22-2016, 09:55 PM

Re: Bajaj Dominar 400 Launched at 1.36 Lakh with 35Ps and 35Nm!

Jeez louise! A lot of action on this thread!

do you guys recall the commotion the NS 200 made when it was launched? Many people discounted it as a direct rip off from the Duke 200. It was a confused bike in itself, jack of all trades but a master of none. But as time went, there were a lot of NS' on the highways, stunting, heck i even saw one modded NS in an offroading rally! The thing is, yes, Bajaj does rely on KTm tech. They analyse it and replicate it with minor tweaks/changes to suit the indian economy and indian conditions.

It's like this, there are two kinds of people;
1. lactose tolerant people
2. lactose intolerant people

Lactose tolerant people drink their coffee with milk. Lactose intolerant people drink their coffee without milk.

Point being, in the general population, there are those who would root for KTM (or any other manufacturer) and there are those who would root for Bajaj.

And on the point of having tech partners, come on! This is a glocal market! Ideas have to be shared between countries/manufacturers/entities to sustain a balance. India provides cheap labour in comparison to EU/US, and we in return get their tech. Simple as that. The age of true innovators has long been past, these days it's more improvisation than innovation, even in the IT field.

Coming back to the topic, I had the chance to ride a D400, and my experience is, the Duke 390 is cramped for someone of my size (6.2' 100+ kilos). The D400 was much more spacious, and i was surprised at the refinement too. The D400 makes more sense to me than the D390 because I use my bikes daily, on tarmac or be it offroading on trails. I drop my vehicles, and am not gonna say that i'm the best when it comes to taking care of them. The D400 makes sense because, obviously spares are gonna be dirt cheap, secondly the engine specs are decent and wouldnt be a slouch (my CBR sometimes struggles to haul my fat ass). Bajaj already has an established SVC across the nation (irrespective of ASS) so you'd never be left stranded anywhere. And most importantly, a deciding factor for me, is the suspension! The stock setting isn't as good as the CBR and is not as stiff as the NS 200, it's right in between. Just my two paisa!

**xionite** · 12-23-2016, 12:23 AM

Re: Bajaj Dominar 400 Launched at 1.36 Lakh with 35Ps and 35Nm!

I'm going to reply to some of the stuff in this post because it hasn't been deleted as of 11:05pm.
So i'm going to assume it's relevant to the thread.

The Dominar D400 is a good bike for the Indian market. It's priced really well. I will be buying one for short rides around the city for sure. Great bike, that's priced superbly.

I really hope Bajaj gets off their butts and comes up with a 650 within the next two years.

Originally posted by Doga View Post

You say "There aren't any Indian engineers in India who have the brains to build an Inline 4 'in-house." That really is condescension towards your own kind. Really? Why do you think so?

I'm calling a spade a spade buddy. ZERO twin cylinders / inline fours have been conceived by Indian engineers in India.

Whether the market is ready or not is not why i'm complaining. Why should Indian manufacturers be given protection from the government if they have ZERO intention of coming up with i4 600s/1000s??? The government should allow Imports with sane customs duty and taxes. Simply because 600/1000 i4s are not a market that Indian manufacturers are interested in or capable of in the first place.

Originally posted by Doga View Post

I assume you are the regular software guy typing away from office, so how does it feel to know that the guy in Paolo Alto is better than you , is more inventive? It's what you think really not me, so may be you are ok with it.

haha. not really. i am not a software guy. I have been a graphic designer all my life. not the DTP kind. The Cintiq kind. Funny you should bring up Palo Alto, because I have about a dozen clients in the SF bay area. I can say with great conviction, I would not have been given the same creative opportunities had in not worked out of San Francisco. It's the overall mentality of the way work is done in India.... there's very little passion and it's primarily driven by financial greed.

Originally posted by Doga View Post

So why do we make it? Because armchair critics want who themselves won't be able to buy btw.

I can only speak for myself. I bought my first superbike back in 2002. So being able to afford to buy a bike is not a concern for me.
If bikes were priced decently here I would end up buying one more often.

Originally posted by Doga View Post

Actually, part of your comment above answers itself really, there are bigger things and worries. The desi superbike will come when conditions are right. When the desi's have enough purchasing power to justify these models.It's not coming now not because desi engineers/companies do not have the brains for it. it's not coming now because the public/infra is not ready for it.

Absolutely. That's why I said that India isn't ready for home made SBKs.

But I will not recant my statement "There aren't any Indian engineers in India who have the brains to build an Inline 4 'in-house."

I stand by it. I have seen how Honda/Ducati 'engineers' service the 1000RR and the Panigale/Monster in India.

I've laughed, I've cried. It's pathetic. You pay more than 2.5 times for a SBK here and Indian 'mechanics' (who claim to be educated (as) engineers) have no idea how to service your bike even with the help of a manual.

It's a lot like a local chef who sprinkles chilli-flakes over a three piedmont cheese risotto. That's when i say, OK, i'm only going to eat somewhere where the chef has been exposed to and has been educated in an authentic process of cooking that particular kind of food. Not just head/book knowledge.

Again, bikes like the Dominar D400 are made in India and are custom made for this country. If Indian manufacturers (TVS/Bajaj/Hero/Mahindra) are seriously open to the Idea of developing 600s/1000s then OK, awesome... block the Jap and Italian imports. But if not, have a ban on imports below 400cc to protect local manufacturers interests.

Everyone wins.

.

**Jon Niranjan Paul** · 12-23-2016, 01:40 AM

Re: Bajaj Dominar 400 Launched at 1.36 Lakh with 35Ps and 35Nm!

Originally posted by xionite View Post

I'm going to reply to some of the stuff in this post because it hasn't been deleted as of 11:05pm.
So i'm going to assume it's relevant to the thread.

The Dominar D............................. awesome... block the Jap and Italian imports. But if not, have a ban on below 400cc bikes.

Everyone wins.

.

is
Is it just me, or did you contradict yourself

And ban on vehicles below 400cc??? What would the womenfolk do without the 100cc scoots? Confusing post...

Just a kind mention here, 90% of the country's population wont be able to afford a sports/premium bike even in the entry level segment. It's really cool that you can buy SBK's, it's your hard earned money and no qualms about that, but your view is still a microeconomic one. In the macroeconomic aspect, it makes no sense to manufacture a multi cylinder engine here... Imagine the nightmarish service that would be offered as well... India is just that kind of place where single cylinders are apt for 99% of terrain/demography (excluding tracks). I think i'm going OT here. Will clam up now.

**xionite** · 12-23-2016, 06:00 AM

Re: Bajaj Dominar 400 Launched at 1.36 Lakh with 35Ps and 35Nm!

Originally posted by Jon Niranjan Paul View Post

is
Is it just me, or did you contradict yourself

And ban on vehicles below 400cc??? What would the womenfolk do without the 100cc scoots? Confusing post...

no no no! as in, have a ban on imports below 400cc to protect local manufacturer's interests.

**Doga** · 12-23-2016, 06:43 AM

Re: Bajaj Dominar 400 Launched at 1.36 Lakh with 35Ps and 35Nm!

Originally posted by xionite View Post

I'm going to reply to some of the stuff in this post because it hasn't been deleted as of 11:05pm.
So i'm going to assume it's relevant to the thread.

The Dominar D400 is a good bike for the Indian market. It's priced really well. I will be buying one for short rides around the city for sure. Great bike, that's priced superbly.

I really hope Bajaj gets off their butts and comes up with a 650 within the next two years.

I'm calling a spade a spade buddy. ZERO twin cylinders / inline fours have been conceived by Indian engineers in India.

Whether the market is ready or not is not why i'm complaining. Why should Indian manufacturers be given protection from the government if they have ZERO intention of coming up with i4 600s/1000s??? The government should allow Imports with sane customs duty and taxes. Simply because 600/1000 i4s are not a market that Indian manufacturers are interested in or capable of in the first place.

haha. not really. i am not a software guy. I have been a graphic designer all my life. not the DTP kind. The Cintiq kind. Funny you should bring up Palo Alto, because I have about a dozen clients in the SF bay area. I can say with great conviction, I would not have been given the same creative opportunities had in not worked out of San Francisco. It's the overall mentality of the way work is done in India.... there's very little passion and it's primarily driven by financial greed.

I can only speak for myself. I bought my first superbike back in 2002. So being able to afford to buy a bike is not a concern for me.
If bikes were priced decently here I would end up buying one more often.

Absolutely. That's why I said that India isn't ready for home made SBKs.

But I will not recant my statement "There aren't any Indian engineers in India who have the brains to build an Inline 4 'in-house."

I stand by it. I have seen how Honda/Ducati 'engineers' service the 1000RR and the Panigale/Monster in India.

I've laughed, I've cried. It's pathetic. You pay more than 2.5 times for a SBK here and Indian 'mechanics' (who claim to be educated (as) engineers) have no idea how to service your bike even with the help of a manual.

.

**Divya Sharan** · 12-23-2016, 12:09 PM

Re: Bajaj Dominar 400 Launched at 1.36 Lakh with 35Ps and 35Nm!

Doga, xionite - I left your posts since both contained some level of reasonable thought. And editing bits would have been tiresome.
But now you both have made your points. Please discuss the rest over PM if the need be.

And others, please contribute in relevance. No OTs (off topic posts) please!

EDIT - infractions will be awarded now on. Kindly comply. Thanks!

**Doga** · 12-23-2016, 04:35 PM

Re: Bajaj Dominar 400 Launched at 1.36 Lakh with 35Ps and 35Nm!

^point noted Divya sir. Don't want to lose my account, especially since my tbhp application was rejected last week

I usually try to avoid lengthy arguments and debates here, not sure what made me waste my 2-3 hours of my life there. My apologies!
On topic, I am curious about the way it is being promoted-
I see the Dominar page on the Bajaj website says-
"For those who are willing to prowl on the dark lonely streets when the others burrow in the safety of their beds.Only the big boys play at night."
So they are going to promote it targeting the street subculture-drags, races at night et al?
Has there been any ads on TV or newspaper? Was their any mention of the touring potential of this bike during the launch? I think the only thing where RE and Mahindra score over Bajaj is that there is no ambiguity in the positioning of their products. They clearly say they're touring bikes and provide add ons(panniers, mojo tribe etc etc).

Announcement

Bajaj Dominar 400 Launched at 1.36 Lakh with 35Ps and 35Nm!

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