Re: CB300R confirmed for India?

The Brochure available on Honda's website is just kind of some advertising pamphlet. It does not give technical specifications like power, torque, weight etc. But nonetheless, it is good that Honda is bringing something that is atleast exciting. And yes, Honda's removal of CBR 650F from its website is very interesting. Seems they are bringing something more. Dreaming about CB 650R..

Re: CB300R confirmed for India?

1)SIAM

2) Having no competition means they could easily have sold just the base model like Kawasaki instead of setting up a separate assembly line for C-ABS model since ABS wasn't mandatory back then. They actively chose to give customers an option despite majority of the buyers going for the cheaper variant.

3) Products picking up pace slowly would be okay if we're talking about said product doing atleast 500 units a month. Selling 50-100 units of a 300cc ckd bike is nobody's sales target. 650cc market sees those numbers today.

4)When Inazuma bombed in the market, Suzuki shaved 1 lakh something off that bike. Yet even then Suzuki dealership had to wait 2 months to even sell their display model. The Inazuma was praised for its engine by every reviewer back then.


Look at recent examples, Benelli 302, Ninja 400, RR310, 390s, G310R/GS310, Dominar etc. these can barely sell 500 units a month despite facelifts and what not. Remember Mr.Bajaj had quoted a monthly sales target of 10k units for D400!!!

If this is the market growth after so many years, its no wonder why manufacturers are paranoid about launching anything new in this class anymore.

Re: CB300R confirmed for India?

Till date Indian market is largely dominated by Activas and Splendors, no wonder manufacturers are giving more importance to such products.
At the end of the day they are a business house and they will function like one.

I'm not denying the fact that the market for bigger bikes is not increasing, it just that the rate of growth is still slow and manufacturers are not willing to take risks.

Re: CB300R confirmed for India?

This is indeed smart and muscular looking bike from the front, reminds me of the Ducati Monster 797. It'll surely be a hit.

Yup CBR650F stopped production long back in Oct 2018 or so, 2019 CBR650R should be launched somewhere in 2019.

Sadly keyboard warriors frowned and felt ashamed from turning up to the showrooms looking at the exorbitant prices of the R3, when Yami decided to transfer all the money spent for ARAI homologation on to end customer from day 1, instead which they should have been absorbed as "R&D costs" and waited for recope the costs on the long run.

The point Yami, Suzuki missed is the building an attraction and brand value for the bikes, launching a bike break-even price with as less as 1% profit on day 1 (Like Mi phones) and create a buzz for the bike, then once you have enough foot fall they could've increased the price to whatever they wanted slowly à la RR310, KTM 390, Dominar.

Expecting 10K sales from Domi was over-promising and known to bomb sooner or later.

With Inzuma like I already said everyone remembers the launch price and not the later on silent price revisions, had they relaunched it like Ninja 300 with bit of marketing for the price cut, it might have been different story.

All the said bikes are in the ball-park of ₹2.5L-3.5L. The average take home salary for an entire year for 60-70% of the population is almost the same .
So this is a niche segment, targeted at customers from upper middle class and above. Middle class people would rather look to own a car at that price than buying a bike.
With all that 500-1000 is a decent number to start off with for any bike in that segment.

Re: CB300R confirmed for India?

Pretty much this. Why will manufacturers sell something when there's no growth in the segment? Where even the established players are having a hard time selling new or facelifted models in decent numbers?

Yamaha will keenly keep an eye on the CB300R's sales numbers and make up their mind on whether or not the MT03 should be launched here. I think the R3 disappointment should have made them wary of the difference between people asking for products on the internet vs people actually showing up to buy them. I don't blame them for not bringing the MT03 soon after the R3. They were smart enough to get the old Brazilian market FZ250 here instead so it can be priced as low as it is right now. I think HMSI was testing the Brazil market XRE300 for the same purpose.

The only reason the MT15 is here right now is because the R15 manages decent(2-3k average) units each month so even if the MT15 sells 1/3rd that they'll have nothing to lose.


Ahh yes, "the exorbitant" price tag for the R3 was "too much" given it was a CKD import and on par with the Ninja 300, another import.

So then explain to me, why is the BMW designed TVS RR310 suffering to sell more than 1000 units? Surely TVS must be "absorbing R&D costs" and waiting to "recoup the costs in the long run" considering the price difference between itself and the BMW version?

But how will TVS recoup anything when they're barely managing 500 units today? Who will help them recoup the absorbed losses now?
Or are the social media folks going to declare the RR310 as "exorbitantly priced" now and blame its pricing for its loss?

Re: CB300R confirmed for India?

A manufacturer that mainly concentrates on scooter and moped sale from the start has managed to bore out 20cc from an existing 180 which was bored out of a 160 which was bored out of a 150 which was a Suzuki to start with.
Do you really think TVS could have pulled it off by offering a BMW collaboration bike which has the plus of engineering but negative of price perception?
Combine all of their 160+180+200 cc bike sale numbers and it cannot even come close to a single bike from Bajaj - Pulsar 150's monthly sales figures.
TVS+BMW marriage was just on paper, they were living like flatmates.
KTM+Bajaj is actually a marriage where both are partners. Bajaj sells around 800-1000 units of D390+Dominar and the offering is worth the price paid for.
You get slipper clutch, that superb console, ride-by-wire, bonkers engine, dual channel Bosch ABS and what not with D390 which looks like a fantastic proposition than the RR310.

TVS has a lot to do to build that image of performance bike.

Re: CB300R confirmed for India?

Hello sir, let me tell you something. The Apache 160 and 160 4v have the same bore×stroke of 62×52.9. That does not make them the same engine. They are entirely different motorcycles with differently built and tuned engines. The 160 4v is better than any other motorcycle in its segment in terms of performance, refinement, handling, hardware and whatever thing you may think of. It is the most refined motorcycle I've ridden till date. [I've ridden only single cylinder motorcycles] You can rev even till 10k RPM and yet feel only negligible vibrations.

Though the engine of the 200 shares the stroke dimension with the 180, it gets a counterbalancer and an oil cooler. It is the coolest and most refined 200cc available in India. The Apache 200 shares almost nothing with the older Apaches, unlike the Pulsars that share almost all components. Also, there is no need to disassemble the whole bike to just replace an air filter.

Before crying about the lack of power, just remember that the engine is not in it's peak state of tune. On a racetrack, the stock version of the Apache 200 can easily keep up with any other 200-250cc motorcycle despite being at a significant power deficit and having taller gear ratios. The track specific version just takes things a notch higher.

Coming to the numbers, Honda should not even launch the CB300R in India as its monthly sales figure will be less than 10% of that the Activas.

Coming to the RR310, it can achieve track times similar to that of an RC390, despite being at an almost 10bhp power disadvantage. The Apache 310 has no issues like coolant mixing with engine oil or the console malfunctioning/dying every now and then.

Those who look beyond the paper know very well what TVS is capable of.

Re: CB300R confirmed for India?

I do understand where you're coming from but just got to back track the evolution of Apache series.
It is basically a Fiero engine taken up to an altogether new levels by TVS and they've done a good job.
I'm not saying Pulsars are any different. The share a lot many components which is good for business too.
A few questions that you may wanna answer to yourself too :
1. How many race tracks do we have in the country?
2. How many owners take their RCs and RRs to race track and how often?
3. Any particular reason as to why a single offering, Pulsar 150, sells more than all of the Apache series bikes combined? You can check the sales numbers and TVS relies only on 3 offerings - Scooty, Jupiter and XL. Their bike business is not far off from Yamaha or Suzuki which are probably at the bottom.

Re: CB300R confirmed for India?

Like said by Akash, it's all about the brand value "Thirukkurungudi Vengaram Sundram" a.k.a TVS,
Indians took long time to digest the fact of investing ₹10L+ money on a brand called "TATA", some people even called that person idiot to put that much money on a "TATA", even when "TATA" cars were top-notch and engine performance performance sometimes even better the competition.

When the same engine used in "TATA" was put in "Maruti", those cars sold like hot cakes even when their cars were "tin-cans" all because of brand value.

Being a owner of "TVS Jupiter" myself, the Jupiter is so much much better product over the decade old Activa's, they are still outsold 10:1, again due to brand value, the pathetic service at TVS is let down, it's safe say not to invest that kind of money on RR310. If they improve the SVC, you can wait and see how the tables will turn around. I'll be the first one to put my money down.

Jupiter is something I can repair and work on by myself with DIY inspite of their pathetic service(being an old school vehicle) and I am happy with it, can I do the same on their fancy tech ridden RR310?

Also, recouping profit doesn't mean it should happen within 1-2 years like how all impatient millennial's have come to think of, Bajaj build the brand Pulsar from scratch since 2001 and only started with look at profits after 5-6 years that to after many Pulsar revisions, which they are reaping benefits until date.

So ya to "RR" name to make a mark and build a series and for their bikes to fly of the shelves, it takes time! Juts like how all legendary names YZF, Njnja, CBR, GSX, Pulsar, KTM, Jawa, tags have a made a mark taking over decades time and not over 1-2 years.

+1

Racetrack? Those 3 holy places in the entire country which only 0.01% population of bikers ever to visit and rest 99.99% get to dream of it for the rest of their life.
For the rest of 99.9%, only highway performance and city ridability matters.

And nothing wrong even if the CB300R sells 1% sales of Activa, at the end of the day Activa's are a "need" where as CB300R is just a "want" to our people.

Re: CB300R confirmed for India?

Looks like we have insiders from tvs + bmw here to tell us the whole story haha!

Re: CB300R confirmed for India?

The people who prefer quality goes for TVS, and those who wants VFM goes for BAJAJ. No need to argue among ourself, Let's support indian manufacturers. [emoji137]

Re: CB300R confirmed for India?

Agreed, that's was the whole point of the discussion.
Asking manufacturers not to be pessimistic on launching big bikes just based on sales number of other bikes which are in the same segment.

Each individual might will has his own set of preferences, something which he din't find it until now in current offerings from TVS, Bajaj, KTM might now all of sudden find it in Honda or say upcoming Yami bikes.
So its not right to put a nail in the coffin on the new bike that is yet to launched just based on it's peer-peer bikes sales number.

Re: CB300R confirmed for India?

Well said.

Re: CB300R confirmed for India?

CB300R has hydraulic clutch in international version. But not sure whether they'll bring it to India due to cost cutting measures.

Re: CB300R confirmed for India?

As per reports in Rushlane and Zigwheels, CB300R is going to be launched on 8 February. This is really fast. Waiting for price announcement.