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**nadz11.ns** · 02-09-2014, 03:06 PM

Re: AE14: Yamaha India Update at Auto Expo 2014

Sorry for the OT guys, but didn't know where to post this.

What type of brakes are these ? Ceramics material ?

**xionite** · 02-09-2014, 03:18 PM

Re: AE14: Yamaha India Update at Auto Expo 2014

Originally posted by nadz11.ns View Post

Sorry for the OT guys, but didn't know where to post this.

What type of brakes are these ? Ceramics material ?

those are carbon brakes.

**hss** · 02-10-2014, 01:23 PM

Re: AE14: Yamaha India Update at Auto Expo 2014

Finally saw the R25 at the Auto Expo and looking closely at it, I feel that the production bike may look different. There were big gaps between the fairing and the frame. A production ready bike shouldn't have such big gaps. Did anyone else who saw the bike feel the same?

**princesirohi** · 02-10-2014, 01:34 PM

Re: AE14: Yamaha India Update at Auto Expo 2014

nothing much from yamaha, for us bikers, all usual existing products.

**Conrad** · 02-10-2014, 01:41 PM

Re: AE14: Yamaha India Update at Auto Expo 2014

R25 looks great

**Ron Syl** · 02-10-2014, 01:48 PM

Re: AE14: Yamaha India Update at Auto Expo 2014

ok my 2 cents: Please note this has nothing to do with brand loyalty, guys who know me know this. what ever i say its purely based on what i know form the people who say that they know that

and also

Originally posted by muztariq View Post

I don't know what the fuss is all about. It was already told by yamaha in 2012 that it wont launch any bike by 2014/2015. Its their marketing strategy.
I read the news in xbhp itself.

True. but priorities change as time goes. i think due to recent launches by other companies in the 250cc category has prompted yamaha to showcase the r25 and also plan an early launch than expected. they obviously cant reveal their exact plans and let the competition know that they have 2 years period to eat up market. the way i see it only cbr250r and d200 have taken few riders off r15 and ninja 300 (i personally know them, also one rider i know is getting back r15 after going to cbr250r from r15, he has his reasons and i dont wanna tel it).
there are d390 which launched last year, hx250r,new karizmas, rc series, r25, pulsar series (sorry if i misd out any) which will be launched this year. so the competition is just a year old. except that the cbr250r is first to start it in 250cc category. note that these bikes have character of their own, different cc's, different power output at different rpms. when i recently rode my r15, a d200 (lohits) and cbr250r(karthiks) in twisty valparai, i wished that there was a single bike with mix of all those 3 bikes. which i say again, 3 different bikes. 3 different characters. now r15 suites my way of riding unless my priorities change to pillion comfort which wont atleast few years

Originally posted by raging_bull View Post

How can that be a strategy?!! I would call it 'inability'. If they are to win the market share, they should fight with the local players. They have every means to do it. They are one among the best. But concepts like the RC390 and R25 are very quickly losing their relevance here. The Indian companies are really becoming a big threat.

The problem is, many people here don't see Yamaha as a company. They see it as a brand that can magically make profits by selling anything. Well that's not the case; not just with Yamaha but any company.

Every company has a sales target when it launches a new product. No company launches a product just for a few loyal servants. Yamaha haven't had a great time here in India when you look at the sales figures and financial side of things. I just want to mention that it's not a 'who cares' situation. If they 'don't care', they'll probably suffer huge losses. At the end of the day, sales figures matter more than anything.

While launching a scooter is not a bad idea, staying away from the bike scene (what they are known for) is a bad idea IMO. That too for a couple of years! A possible 180NS and 200SS launch can very seriously affect the FZ's and R15's sales figures. Yamaha will possibly find itself in a situation where it is no longer the best in any segment and that can be tough to digest.

And I'm sure that Yamaha knows it and they're probably planning for a comeback with the great potential they have. I'm confident that Yamaha will make a comeback with quality products.

inability? they are running a business man. things wont be done over-night. why do you think the mahindra mojo went through so many changes and still not been launched?

The common term i came across for a yamaha is "quality" "performance" "drinks fuel" . even police guys who stop me question and FE and say its a performance bike, wont give FE and what not.

Have you actually seen sales figure in the past year? if not then visit the sales fig thread. These bikes at these price range are not made for masses. they wont have losses because they manufacture based on the amount of demand is there. if they demand drops to certain level they will stop the production or manufacture few bikes. let these companies do what they do best, "make a bike". and lets ride them and say which bike was worth it.

those scooters got yamaha good sales. obviously they cant challenge honda and hero which have fleets of scooters. but they did eat up some share. why do you think bajaj didnt challenge honda after that disastrous "wave". the stuck to discover and pulsar. would you term it as "inability"? i would. i frankly dont see a point in changing CC's and tweaks in power and launching bikes in every quarter as a "good decision". every company reboots the sticker job on bikes after a year, nothing wrong in that, people want exclusivity, its a demand, and companies do it seeing the demand.

Originally posted by hss View Post

Finally saw the R25 at the Auto Expo and looking closely at it, I feel that the production bike may look different. There were big gaps between the fairing and the frame. A production ready bike shouldn't have such big gaps. Did anyone else who see the bike feel the same?

yup. its totally a track bike. the production version will change, atleast half the bike will look different.

PS: correct me if i was wrong anywhere.

**siddharthsure** · 02-10-2014, 06:12 PM

Re: AE14: Yamaha India Update at Auto Expo 2014

[MENTION=37022]Ron Syl[/MENTION] is it teejay, who is planning to change to r15??

**raging_bull** · 02-10-2014, 10:55 PM

Re: AE14: Yamaha India Update at Auto Expo 2014

Originally posted by Ron Syl View Post

inability? they are running a business man. things wont be done over-night. why do you think the mahindra mojo went through so many changes and still not been launched?

The common term i came across for a yamaha is "quality" "performance" "drinks fuel" . even police guys who stop me question and FE and say its a performance bike, wont give FE and what not.

Have you actually seen sales figure in the past year? if not then visit the sales fig thread. These bikes at these price range are not made for masses. they wont have losses because they manufacture based on the amount of demand is there. if they demand drops to certain level they will stop the production or manufacture few bikes. let these companies do what they do best, "make a bike". and lets ride them and say which bike was worth it.

those scooters got yamaha good sales. obviously they cant challenge honda and hero which have fleets of scooters. but they did eat up some share. why do you think bajaj didnt challenge honda after that disastrous "wave". the stuck to discover and pulsar. would you term it as "inability"? i would. i frankly dont see a point in changing CC's and tweaks in power and launching bikes in every quarter as a "good decision". every company reboots the sticker job on bikes after a year, nothing wrong in that, people want exclusivity, its a demand, and companies do it seeing the demand.

Hi buddy!
Mahindra is new to the business man. Are you comparing Mahindra and Yamaha?!

In December 2013 Honda sold more two wheelers than Bajaj did!!! Honda sold 296144 units against Yamaha's 39777 in December 2013. That's a huge difference. Honda has nothing much to worry about though their CBR150 was a flop.

Now I would call Bajaj's strategy 'good'. They are sticking to their strength ie. affordable performance. They might try other products but I'm sure they wont do it by abandoning the Pulsar R&D. Their strategy to introduce so many Discovers is laughable but the Pulsar venture has been a big success. They are able to surprise the poor Indian crowd with their exciting, affordable products. The Discover comedy put aside, almost all of their new launches have been actually new products. I mean, not just a sticker job. In fact Yamaha has been doing this stickering trick for a long time with their FZ!

And the entrepreneur in me has a few points to make as well

. It's not like, a company develops a product and then produces it according to demand. The thing is, there is a break even point from which the company will start making profits. So the company has to sell that no. of the product just to avoid a loss. And mass production always brings the cost down. I mean if the production is controlled purely by real time demand, the costs will go sky high. No company can work like that unless they charge such a premium amount for the product like some exotic car companies do. None of the Yamaha bikes in India belong to that level. Yamaha India did suffer some losses in the past. They are climbing back but don't know if they have managed to make any profit this year.

Afterall Yamaha is Yamaha. People expect a lot from them. India is a very big market and if they want, they can really have a feast here. They have everything to do that. But instead of capitalising on the advantage, they have been quite lazy. And man, no matter from which angle I look at it, I just can't understand why a company like Yamaha decided to stay away from the bike scene for so long. They can't develop bikes and scooters at the same time?!

I wish to see some sub 1 lakh bikes from them. Because of their solid engineering, their bikes will stand out from the others, just like the FZ did for so many years. Even the R15 is a time tested machine. But they are taking just too much time and the local players are improving at great pace with their new friends. And unlike in the past, people here no longer wait for their mercy. We make our own sports bikes now. May not be as good as Jap ones but still they're fast and affordable

. Time to wake up Yamaha.

**Ron Syl** · 02-11-2014, 05:12 PM

Re: AE14: Yamaha India Update at Auto Expo 2014

Originally posted by raging_bull View Post

Hi buddy!
Mahindra is new to the business man. Are you comparing Mahindra and Yamaha?!

Not comparing them, but saying how much it takes sometimes to launch a product. yamaha recently came up with inline 3 cyl, maybe they were concentrating on that. india is not the country in the world to sell bikes for yamaha. they have to consider the international markets too, which they did by making the R25. its already been told that only R25 will give competition to the king of 250cc, the ninja250r, when it comes to track and sports bikes.

In December 2013 Honda sold more two wheelers than Bajaj did!!! Honda sold 296144 units against Yamaha's 39777 in December 2013. That's a huge difference. Honda has nothing much to worry about though their CBR150 was a flop.

Yamaha has been giving competition with r15, Fz from 5 years. enough said.

Now I would call Bajaj's strategy 'good'. They are sticking to their strength ie. affordable performance. They might try other products but I'm sure they wont do it by abandoning the Pulsar R&D. Their strategy to introduce so many Discovers is laughable but the Pulsar venture has been a big success. They are able to surprise the poor Indian crowd with their exciting, affordable products. The Discover comedy put aside, almost all of their new launches have been actually new products. I mean, not just a sticker job. In fact Yamaha has been doing this stickering trick for a long time with their FZ!

No comments on bajaj as its not about bajaj here.

Stickering job on Fz? dont other companies do it? whats wrong in revamping those stickers? thats also an USP while selling a product. pulsar, discover, zma, cbr250r, cbr150r, xtreme,R15 etc etc bikes also go through it. even though they didnt change anything other than stickers form 5 years, yamaha is still selling FZ's. just as other bikes are sold with sticker jobs.

And the entrepreneur in me has a few points to make as well

. It's not like, a company develops a product and then produces it according to demand. The thing is, there is a break even point from which the company will start making profits. So the company has to sell that no. of the product just to avoid a loss. And mass production always brings the cost down. I mean if the production is controlled purely by real time demand, the costs will go sky high. No company can work like that unless they charge such a premium amount for the product like some exotic car companies do. None of the Yamaha bikes in India belong to that level. Yamaha India did suffer some losses in the past. They are climbing back but don't know if they have managed to make any profit this year.

The Ninja250 sold lesser than the cbr250r in india. but still kawa is selling it in india right? i dont like it when people generalize bikes in terms of sales. everyone knows ninja sold less because of the price tag, but there are people who still bought it. the same way there will be people who will buy the r25. if priced less than the ninja in india, then it will also eat up the share of the ninja.

Afterall Yamaha is Yamaha. People expect a lot from them. India is a very big market and if they want, they can really have a feast here. They have everything to do that. But instead of capitalising on the advantage, they have been quite lazy. And man, no matter from which angle I look at it, I just can't understand why a company like Yamaha decided to stay away from the bike scene for so long. They can't develop bikes and scooters at the same time?!

maybe you can ask bajaj that question

I wish to see some sub 1 lakh bikes from them. Because of their solid engineering, their bikes will stand out from the others, just like the FZ did for so many years. Even the R15 is a time tested machine. But they are taking just too much time and the local players are improving at great pace with their new friends. And unlike in the past, people here no longer wait for their mercy. We make our own sports bikes now. May not be as good as Jap ones but still they're fast and affordable

. Time to wake up Yamaha.

this last paragraph has left me confused. you want to see sub 1lakh bike form yamaha? most of the bikes are sub 1L except R15. why would they launch more sub 1L bikes when fz series is doing well? when whole india is waiting for 250cc and more from yamaha, you are asking for sub 1L (150cc and less) from yamaha.

As far as prospective r25 buyer, i have no complaints about seeing the r25 being showcased and knowing there is a 250cc around the corner. i am talking only about myself here. if i find that the r25 lacks in competition with the ninja250/300 then i might as well consider other bikes. bikes like these are not meant for a commuter, so which also means the companies know what they are entering into. Bajaj also could have easily sold the p150 p180 p220 for ages, but they chose to offer bigger bikes with ktm's help seeing the competition raising in 250cc+ category. we could continue more but i dont see a point to debate more. EOD people buy what they like or what their pockets can.

**'nYsus'** · 02-11-2014, 09:01 PM

Re: AE14: Yamaha India Update at Auto Expo 2014

Seeing the r25 rollout soon enough is a damn good sign for the indian motorcycle enthusiast. The mojo, the HX250, the 400 CS and SS, the hastur, all stand good for one and single reason, which is a more competitive market.
So, when the going gets tough, the tough gets going. This will make all these players stand on their toes for every single detail which will or wont get their products in demand.

This is what the indian bike enthusiast has been waiting for. And then who knows, it would be only a matter of time before these kings will have their 600s produced in India.

We should be glad we are at this age of indian biking.

sent from my batphone using my batsignal

**krishna77** · 02-11-2014, 10:07 PM

Re: AE14: Yamaha India Update at Auto Expo 2014

Originally posted by Ron Syl View Post

ok my 2 cents: Please note this has nothing to do with brand loyalty, guys who know me know this. what ever i say its purely based on what i know form the people who say that they know that

and also

True. but priorities change as time goes. i think due to recent launches by other companies in the 250cc category has prompted yamaha to showcase the r25 and also plan an early launch than expected. they obviously cant reveal their exact plans and let the competition know that they have 2 years period to eat up market. the way i see it only cbr250r and d200 have taken few riders off r15 and ninja 300 (i personally know them, also one rider i know is getting back r15 after going to cbr250r from r15, he has his reasons and i dont wanna tel it).
there are d390 which launched last year, hx250r,new karizmas, rc series, r25, pulsar series (sorry if i misd out any) which will be launched this year. so the competition is just a year old. except that the cbr250r is first to start it in 250cc category. note that these bikes have character of their own, different cc's, different power output at different rpms. when i recently rode my r15, a d200 (lohits) and cbr250r(karthiks) in twisty valparai, i wished that there was a single bike with mix of all those 3 bikes. which i say again, 3 different bikes. 3 different characters. now r15 suites my way of riding unless my priorities change to pillion comfort which wont atleast few years

inability? they are running a business man. things wont be done over-night. why do you think the mahindra mojo went through so many changes and still not been launched?

The common term i came across for a yamaha is "quality" "performance" "drinks fuel" . even police guys who stop me question and FE and say its a performance bike, wont give FE and what not.

Have you actually seen sales figure in the past year? if not then visit the sales fig thread. These bikes at these price range are not made for masses. they wont have losses because they manufacture based on the amount of demand is there. if they demand drops to certain level they will stop the production or manufacture few bikes. let these companies do what they do best, "make a bike". and lets ride them and say which bike was worth it.

those scooters got yamaha good sales. obviously they cant challenge honda and hero which have fleets of scooters. but they did eat up some share. why do you think bajaj didnt challenge honda after that disastrous "wave". the stuck to discover and pulsar. would you term it as "inability"? i would. i frankly dont see a point in changing CC's and tweaks in power and launching bikes in every quarter as a "good decision". every company reboots the sticker job on bikes after a year, nothing wrong in that, people want exclusivity, its a demand, and companies do it seeing the demand.

yup. its totally a track bike. the production version will change, atleast half the bike will look different.

PS: correct me if i was wrong anywhere.

+1 for your viewpoint.

**Ron Syl** · 02-11-2014, 10:16 PM

Re: AE14: Yamaha India Update at Auto Expo 2014

One more thing to add. If anyone is expecting this r25 to look like m1 then stop dreaming.

It wil not be close to m1. The m1 is not designed to work on normal Road conditions. AFAIK it will be on the lines of r15 and r6. Recently yamaha even patented the r3 name, so its one more paradox now.

wil it be this 250 or 300cc is still a question. Whatever it is it will hit the news in order just like the r15v2 did.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using xBhp Connect mobile app

**kochumvk** · 02-11-2014, 11:15 PM

Re: AE14: Yamaha India Update at Auto Expo 2014

Originally posted by 'nYsus' View Post

Seeing the r25 rollout soon enough is a damn good sign for the indian motorcycle enthusiast. The mojo, the HX250, the 400 CS and SS, the hastur, all stand good for one and single reason, which is a more competitive market.
So, when the going gets tough, the tough gets going. This will make all these players stand on their toes for every single detail which will or wont get their products in demand.

This is what the indian bike enthusiast has been waiting for. And then who knows, it would be only a matter of time before these kings will have their 600s produced in India.

We should be glad we are at this age of indian biking.

sent from my batphone using my batsignal

Indian made middle weights are going to be:

Hero hastur, bajaj and Ktm branded versions of 500 and 800cc parallel twins (check overdrive, I have posted the news but mods seems not interested in this news)

And then if we are lucky further, cbr 650f

Sent from my C6602 using xBhp Connect mobile app

**Doga** · 02-12-2014, 12:17 AM

Re: AE14: Yamaha India Update at Auto Expo 2014

Originally posted by kochumvk View Post

Indian made middle weights are going to be:

Hero hastur, bajaj and Ktm branded versions of 500 and 800cc parallel twins (check overdrive, I have posted the news but mods seems not interested in this news)

And then if we are lucky further, cbr 650f

Sent from my C6602 using xBhp Connect mobile app

Have hero announced any tentative dates for the hastur? Do they have an engine as of now? EBR gets their engines from Rotax. Any info about the source of the engine? AVL ?
Can someone confirm if the hastur was a functioning prototype or just a dummy? To my eyes the engine block didn't look like a real engine.

I think the Hastur is a long way ahead.
Also isn't the CBR 650f confirmed launch in 2015? Or Honda just hinted at a possibilty?

**nadz11.ns** · 02-12-2014, 12:57 AM

Re: AE14: Yamaha India Update at Auto Expo 2014

Originally posted by Doga View Post

Also isn't the CBR 650f confirmed launch in 2015? Or Honda just hinted at a possibilty?

I think they had memtioned 2015 for launch.. Not sure though if it was 'confirmed' or just tentative.

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AE14: Yamaha India Update at Auto Expo 2014

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