Convert AC/DC bike to ALL DC.

[Toshar Deven]

Re: Need to install HID for discover 125

Factor of safety is more precisely and heavily used in mechanical designing. A bike's on paper max load is 150kg (means 2 person) but it can easily sustain even 5-6 times (600kg or more.) Big machines have even more Fos of 10-15 times.
But this is not the case with electrical systems. You can't load 20A in a 5A system. It will be very un-economical and impractical. That's why a weak point 'fuse' is given. There is no fuse in mechanical systems so they have to give fos.

Rewinding is best solution for using 60w bulb. Main problem is there are no mechanic here with good knowledge of electrical stuffs.

Thank You for the information. I guess it was my good luck that my Discover 135s took all the load and pain for 60w bulb in stock condition.
As for the rewinding, I know there are no mechanics that can do that for ease so I tried it myself. Just like you, I too got confused with few first pages but kept on reading each and every post of these thread. Contacted few persons from the thread who helped me during the process. Few trial and error for full 1 year I successfully rewinded my coil with 17 swg wire eventually giving me 15A of current or even more.

Rewinding is not difficult, it asks for patience.

[JACK3935]

Re: Convert AC/DC bike to ALL DC.

I have converted my Honda Dazzler by cutting Yellow wire and shorted with Red wire at Regulator/Rectifier unit and installed 6AM batteryReplace headlight with LED 35W/35W, Break/tail 2W/2W LED , turn signal with duke LED turn signal, Number Plate 1W LED running since last 4 Month without no issue

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I have converted my Honda Dazzler by cutting Yellow wire and shorted with Red wire at Regulator/Rectifier unit or yellow ot black at headlight and installed 6AM battery


Replace headlight with LED 35W/35W, Break/tail 2W/2W LED , turn signal with duke LED turn signal, Number Plate 1W LED running since last 4 Month without no issue

[BikerKid]

Re: Convert AC/DC bike to ALL DC.

My friend owns a suzuki access 125 bs 4 model, and would like to convert his scooter to full wave DC. Which i assumes involves removing the lighting coil tap {no lighting tap on access bs 4 coil} and removing the coil ground to make it a floating coil.

As for RR reading through the the thread i gather the RR available in market are the 1. APE RR 2.P180 UG 4 RR are there any other RR which can be bought?

I would like to know beforehand so that i can buy the one available in the market without having to go there twice!

Also from the pic i received frnd he friend,i drew a diagram. following are the connector color coding for the bs 4 access, Will also be upgrading the battery to an 5 Ah one from the 3ah now!

Updated the image with wiring color coding.




Has anyone come across Ape RR made by Minda and Varroc? Minda RR-8002 and Varroc REGR APEN PI65 Cheaper than the OEM RR.

Not going for APE as my primary concern is switching to DC and running an 35 Watt led headlight that's it.

The thread seems inactive, i'll update my progress any way so that anyone wanting to convert their Suzuki Access to DC might find it useful.

Suzuki access BS 4 has a 12 pole single phase stator with single ac output, no lighting coil output tap. they use a RR which outputs regulated via a grey wire to the ac powered headlight etc

In stock condition the stator uses a 20 SWG wire with about 52 turns on each pole.





I have rewinded it using 19 SWG and put a contact point made of aluminum rivet to connect other point of the coil as this was using a single wire to output AC. It's a tight fit and glued in place with fevikwik 203 cyanoacrylate adhesive.



The coil on the ACCESS is quite capable and will work even if you don't rewind it, but i still did it incase i decide to load it a little more. Also the BS 4 access stator is not inside the sealed shut crankcase, its just covered with a plastic cover so removing the coil is hassle free.

Also i will be using a Gixxer 155 RR as i find it to be quite beefy (Heavier & Bigger Heatsink) compared to Yamaha SZR and Fazer, fz 16 etc Also anyone thinking of using fz RR should be careful as it has fused and conducted AC to the instrument cluster etc and killed it for a lot of people. Gixxer 155 has a 5 pin RR but only 4 are used on the bike, and 4 will be used on the access. As long as you don't put insane amount of load like above 90 watts it will be fine. Who uses HID these days anyway? LED Headlight upto 55/60 w will work easily, roughly 7 amps in total load.Will help converting rest to LED leaving turn signals aside as they are used intermittently.

The rewinding 19 swg wire cost me around 150 for 200 gms and some varnish ans shrink,sleeves totaling to under 250.

Will update more as i get time to work on it more.

[Toshar Deven]

Re: Convert AC/DC bike to ALL DC.

answers in bold

as for rr reading through the the thread i gather the rr available in market are the 1. Ape rr 2.p180 ug 4 rr are there any other rr which can be bought?

a- most of the bikes nowdays are stock dc and comes with rr units that convert whatever it takes to regulated dc. Ape rr is recommended here in this thread because it is tried and tested. I don't remember the exact model but pulsar 220 born with complete dc setup and has a rr setup similar to ape rr as the p220 uses 60w bulbs so design wise its rr is capable. Talk to your local spare part shop in his free time and ask for similar rr telling him you need it for your college project.

has anyone come across ape rr made by minda and varroc? Minda rr-8002 and varroc regr apen pi65 cheaper than the oem rr.

a - again, any rr would work, all you have to have a look at it and you will understand its design. More or less they are same but yes, minda or varroc make good quality products. I dont remember the maker of mine.

btw can anyone post an pinout for the yamaha fz fazer 4 pin rr pinout? Which would be better between the fazer, yamaha szr and pulsar 180 ug4 rr's? Not going for ape as my primary concern is switching to dc and running an 35 watt led headlight that's it.

a- its not worth to wait for coupler pinout as different bikes have different wirings and different pinout. It will make you confuse. The best way to find which wire does what is to take a digital multimeter and start getting readings from wires. Write them on paper so that you don't get confuse. Also, you common sense here like black wires are usually for ground, yellow for regulated ac, same color for unregulated ac, red for 12v dc, etc etc. Thats what bajaj use most of the time, yamaha may differ.

the thread seems inactive, i'll update my progress any way so that anyone wanting to convert their suzuki access to dc might find it useful.

a- you know this. Rarely there are people interested in converting their ac hl into dc in 2020. Not even mechanics do this kind of deep shit. Rewinding, gauge size, output, wire tracking, etc are not everone's cup of tea. Those who understand these things are enjoying good hl output. Information on this thread is scattered and one has to go through many pages to understand what the hell exactly to do.


i have rewinded it using 19 swg and put a contact point made of aluminum rivet to connect other point of the coil as this was using a single wire to output ac. It's a tight fit and glued in place with fevikwik 203 cyanoacrylate adhesive.
a- didn't got this thing. All one has to unwind the stock wire from stator, rewind 17 gauge wire in cw-acw pattern (yes, its pretty thick but very manageable), take both the ends and connect them to rr input, connect rr output and ground to battery + and negative respectively. Rest of the wiring and relays should left intact. Thats it.



also i will be using a gixxer 155 rr as i find it to be quite beefy (heavier & bigger heatsink) compared to yamaha szr and fazer, fz 16 etc also anyone thinking of using fz rr should be careful as it has fused and conducted ac to the instrument cluster etc and killed it for a lot of people.
As long as you don't put insane amount of load like above 90 watts it will be fine. Who uses hid these days anyway? Led headlight upto 55/60 w will work easily, roughly 7 amps in total load.will help converting rest to led leaving turn signals aside as they are used intermittently.
The rewinding 19 swg wire cost me around 150 for 200 gms and some varnish ans shrink,sleeves totaling to under 250.

Will update more as i get time to work on it more.

a- thats why this thread recommend to use the tested ape rr. I am using it and its still working fine and cool after years whereas many other rr have some sort of capacitor fixed to them, different wiring which ends up with more confusion.
i use hid nowdays with hella g5r mated with osram cbi everything at 55w + 30w fog lamps + heated grips. Loud horns + 12v cigarette lighter works intermittently.
if you already have that insect in your brain to switch to dc than let it go further. Next time use thicker wire, a bi-led hl, 12v socket, heated grips, charger, etc etc...
all the best...


.

[BikerKid]

Re: Convert AC/DC bike to ALL DC.

Bought the Gixxer 150 RR which had the beefiest of the heatsinks and served my goal of power usage beyond what i required on the scooter. Except for the turn indicators everything is switched to LED.

ZERO wires were cut to do the mods and stock connectors and wires were preserved to make switching to stock hassle free in case of any problems. 2k RPM voltage is around 14.5 on the 19 SWG winding. Haven't had the time to test the amps but RR is handling the load well while staying less than warm, as it also has air flowing to it. Will upgrade to a 5 AH battery later on.

Hope this helps someone wanting to do it to their access. The 5th pin on the gixxer rr middle one is unused on the motorcycle, it's probably a sensing pin to be connected to ignition switch incase you are getting high voltage levels. More about it here https://ricksmotorsportelectrics.com...-signal-wires/ Lot of newer RR sense through the output voltage through the + output to battery itself.

And never run the vehicle without battery after DC conversion, if you want to anyway but it doesn't star try adding a 25v 4700 micro farad cap between the ignition positive and ground. The added cap also works as a buffer to absorb spikes and protect your electricals to an extent.

[aumer98]

Re: Convert AC/DC bike to ALL DC.

I have bajaj platina KS
Done rewinding with 19g wire to three poles
With 6-7 layers
Added Ape RR unit of 4 wires
The AC output from winding is 16v at ideal and at top rpm it gets to 38v


Want to confirm
Ape rr until don't show output voltage
But when added to battery, the battery voltage increase
Have tried 2 RR unit
1st is of varroc
2nd is OE
Both don't show voltage at output wire
But when connected to battery the show 11.7v dc
And battery also is getting charged

My problem
Without battery headlight is not turning on on the Ape RR unit
But with battery it does but still not upto its full potential

Anyone please help me how to increase power of ape rr unit
As the AC output is more and it will shof the bulb and also without battery any way to turn on headlight? On ape rr unit? Tried with a capacitor too, not turning on without battery.

[Manoj Sivaraman]

Re: Convert AC/DC bike to ALL DC.

I have bajaj platina KS
Done rewinding with 19g wire to three poles
With 6-7 layers
Added Ape RR unit of 4 wires
The AC output from winding is 16v at ideal and at top rpm it gets to 38v


Want to confirm
Ape rr until don't show output voltage
But when added to battery, the battery voltage increase
Have tried 2 RR unit
1st is of varroc
2nd is OE
Both don't show voltage at output wire
But when connected to battery the show 11.7v dc
And battery also is getting charged

My problem
Without battery headlight is not turning on on the Ape RR unit
But with battery it does but still not upto its full potential

Anyone please help me how to increase power of ape rr unit
As the AC output is more and it will shof the bulb and also without battery any way to turn on headlight? On ape rr unit? Tried with a capacitor too, not turning on without battery.

Check the coil output with RR unit connected (ie. AC Voltage at load)
If it's healthy say above 12v at idling. It's good
Also check for coil grounding (continuity test between coil's either ends and stator body).
Coil must not have any ground points with body or vehicle ground.

Two ends of coils must be directly linked to RR input.
Ideal output for a good stator winding would be least 13.5v DC at idle say 1300 RPM.

With DC load say 55w headlamps stator must provide 14.3~14.5v DC above 2.5 to 3k RPM

Hope this helps..

[aumer98]

Re: Convert AC/DC bike to ALL DC.

Check the coil output with RR unit connected (ie. AC Voltage at load)
If it's healthy say above 12v at idling. It's good
Also check for coil grounding (continuity test between coil's either ends and stator body).
Coil must not have any ground points with body or vehicle ground.

Two ends of coils must be directly linked to RR input.
Ideal output for a good stator winding would be least 13.5v DC at idle say 1300 RPM.

With DC load say 55w headlamps stator must provide 14.3~14.5v DC above 2.5 to 3k RPM

Hope this helps..

Checked output with ape RR unit, it dont show any output volts in DMM
But if connected to battery, thn battery volts increase like for eg. 10v increase to 11.7v after connecting RR to battery. But without battery RR unit don't show any voltage, even dont spark when touched both black and yellow wire together.

[Manoj Sivaraman]

Re: Convert AC/DC bike to ALL DC.

Checked output with ape RR unit, it dont show any output volts in DMM
But if connected to battery, thn battery volts increase like for eg. 10v increase to 11.7v after connecting RR to battery. But without battery RR unit don't show any voltage, even dont spark when touched both black and yellow wire together.

Check the windings. If RR unit output is proper battery voltage will rise to 13.5 minimum

[aumer98]

Re: Convert AC/DC bike to ALL DC.

Check the windings. If RR unit output is proper battery voltage will rise to 13.5 minimum

Checked bro there's no connectivity between ground and windings two wires, checked with DMM, winding wires have AC voltage upto 38v
When connected to RR unit the output is zero 0
From ape RR unit, have two RR unit. Both don't show any output, until connected to a battery.

[aumer98]

Re: Convert AC/DC bike to ALL DC.

Checked bro there's no connectivity between ground and windings two wires, checked with DMM, winding wires have AC voltage upto 38v
When connected to RR unit the output is zero 0
From ape RR unit, have two RR unit. Both don't show any output, until connected to a battery.

Ok so tested the output volts from RR unit using a capacitor, it's 10.4v at ideal and 12.3v at max


I think i need more winding for more power
I have used 19g wire for my three pole coil and i can't rewinding more turns to it, no space.


Anyone please suggest which gage wire to b used for rewinding 3poles. as 19g wire is not producing much output for 3 poles

[Toshar Deven]

Re: Convert AC/DC bike to ALL DC.

Ok so tested the output volts from RR unit using a capacitor, it's 10.4v at ideal and 12.3v at max


I think i need more winding for more power
I have used 19g wire for my three pole coil and i can't rewinding more turns to it, no space.


Anyone please suggest which gage wire to b used for rewinding 3poles. as 19g wire is not producing much output for 3 poles

You should have gone thoroughly through this DC conversion thread. Somewhere on the very first few pages it is clearly mentioned that APE RR behaves strangely when connected directly to DMM and not the battery. This will not give you end results but may also lead to RR failure.

AC output voltage directly from the rewinded stator can be measured with DMM and it is also dangerous as voltage may go all over 150v AC. These AC output wires should be directly connected to APR RR input wires.
APE RR output wires should be connected properly to the battery and then only voltage should be measured. You may get anything above 12v easily if everything is properly done.
APE RR output in amperes can only be measured with DMM in series as in between RR poisitve TO Battery positive. This will also work only if battery is partially charged as a fully charged battery simply does not accept any current but this doesnt mean RR unit is faulty.

Now, Ideally the overall output (in terms of AC voltage) from the rewinded stator before the RR should peak around 180 volts. Dont ask me why but in my case I got this much of amount. Worth to note that I rewinded my stator with 17 gauge wire in the very best possible manner with 10 rounds and 10 layers on each pole resulting 100 rounds per pole. The stator itself became very heavy with loads of copper onto it but I have kept utmose care to not to ground it anywhere on pole.
For some usefull information, take out you phone and start readin each and every post from page 101 on this thread. You will get to know how to rewind the stator by hand with best results.

Also post couple of pictures of your stator.

[sandeepcf]

Re: Convert AC/DC bike to ALL DC.

Ok so tested the output volts from RR unit using a capacitor, it's 10.4v at ideal and 12.3v at max

I think i need more winding for more power
I have used 19g wire for my three pole coil and i can't rewinding more turns to it, no space.

Anyone please suggest which gage wire to b used for rewinding 3poles. as 19g wire is not producing much output for 3 poles

we rewounded bajaj ct100 3 poles stator with 18, 19, 20 gauge wires and used Bajaj pulsar 180's RR Unit.
The max AC voltage we managed to achieve was around 50v with 20G, 38~42v with 19G.
Since it is a 3 pole stator the AC voltage cannot reach 100+ volts; an 8 pole stator will output those figures.
With 19G the initial current(idle to 3000RPM) was less but managed max 70w at higher RPMS.
With 20G a 55w bulb was fully lit even at low rpms(city riding) but at higher rpms the amount current was dropped.
ANYWAY you can't use a 100w bulb with the 3 pole stator. if you can find 19.5G it would be good.

Hero Honda's passion plus 3 pole stator is much better than Bajaj's; It gave good results with rewinding with 19G wire.

I suggest you ditch the APE RR and go for any full DC bike's RR like Gixxer, Pulsar NS 200, FZ etc. NS200's RR is big and cheaper too I think.
With APE RR and dead battery I was stranded with my Unicorn(as it has no ignition coil and uses battery for ignition) since your's has ignition coil there would be no such problem but APE RR is over kill and complicated for 3 pole stators and should have a working battery for it to function.

Finally -- Rewind properly, tightly to achieve AC voltage of minimum 12v at idle.. experiment with 19, 19.5, 20 wires. Ditch APE RR.

[aumer98]

Re: Convert AC/DC bike to ALL DC.

You should have gone thoroughly through this DC conversion thread. Somewhere on the very first few pages it is clearly mentioned that APE RR behaves strangely when connected directly to DMM and not the battery. This will not give you end results but may also lead to RR failure.

AC output voltage directly from the rewinded stator can be measured with DMM and it is also dangerous as voltage may go all over 150v AC. These AC output wires should be directly connected to APR RR input wires.
APE RR output wires should be connected properly to the battery and then only voltage should be measured. You may get anything above 12v easily if everything is properly done.
APE RR output in amperes can only be measured with DMM in series as in between RR poisitve TO Battery positive. This will also work only if battery is partially charged as a fully charged battery simply does not accept any current but this doesnt mean RR unit is faulty.

Now, Ideally the overall output (in terms of AC voltage) from the rewinded stator before the RR should peak around 180 volts. Dont ask me why but in my case I got this much of amount. Worth to note that I rewinded my stator with 17 gauge wire in the very best possible manner with 10 rounds and 10 layers on each pole resulting 100 rounds per pole. The stator itself became very heavy with loads of copper onto it but I have kept utmose care to not to ground it anywhere on pole.
For some usefull information, take out you phone and start readin each and every post from page 101 on this thread. You will get to know how to rewind the stator by hand with best results.

Also post couple of pictures of your stator.

Thank for reply bro and the information

My battery was faulty to it was not charging full
Changed the battery
Winding was of 19g wire
With ape rr - here its cheaper thn pulser 220
Have both (ape rr and pulsar 220rr)
Voltage Tested with both,
Ape rr with capacitor and battery gives 12.98-13.50v
Pulsar220 rr gives 12.6-13 v max
Currently using ape rr
With philips 60/55 extreme vision
Battery is discharging after 2hr or riding
When turned on headlight the output is 10.80v
At battery terminals with bike on
But discharging is still their when turned on headlight
Tail-light is led as well.
Anyone can help with that?

[Manoj Sivaraman]

Re: Convert AC/DC bike to ALL DC.

Thank for reply bro and the information

My battery was faulty to it was not charging full
Changed the battery
Winding was of 19g wire
With ape rr - here its cheaper thn pulser 220
Have both (ape rr and pulsar 220rr)
Voltage Tested with both,
Ape rr with capacitor and battery gives 12.98-13.50v
Pulsar220 rr gives 12.6-13 v max
Currently using ape rr
With philips 60/55 extreme vision
Battery is discharging after 2hr or riding
When turned on headlight the output is 10.80v
At battery terminals with bike on
But discharging is still their when turned on headlight
Tail-light is led as well.
Anyone can help with that?

Can you elaborate how many turns per pole.

Also the voltage you mentioned was it above 3k RPM?

If the 3 pole stator isn't putting out enough current you voltage will drop.
Better move to LED headlamps. Main reason is a 55/60w halos will consume a reasonable 4.6A at 13.5V DC.
LED on other hand will consume somewhere around 3A DC
As of we can't modify the stator and rotor arrangements in a motorcycle without major modification.