Engine Oils

[sandeepcf]

hello friends can you throw a light on this engine oil I am planning to use it. Going to change it tom.
Hence please give your feed backs for this oil.
Vehicle is honda cb unicorn.

Not a Superb oil, but runs good for 4000 kms. Used 2 bottles because I got it for Rs.550/bottle from distributor.
Now a days I am not getting good feedback with different engine oils from my Unicorn because
My Unicorn's crankshaft bearing got damaged, funny story- I gave my bike to one of my friends who rode 50kms and returned it, after a few days I observed some noise and was wondering what might have happened. A month later when I met my friend he asked me how many gears does Unicorn has? I asked him what kind of question is it? you have already ridden my bike. He replied - I thought the bike has got only 4 gears and said that he rode the bike with speeds more than 80kmph in 4th gear only. I didn't know how to react...I have nothing more to say.

[shoeb2015]

Not a Superb oil, but runs good for 4000 kms. Used 2 bottles because I got it for Rs.550/bottle from distributor.
Now a days I am not getting good feedback with different engine oils from my Unicorn because

Is that a typo ? Shell AX7 can be used for 4000 kms and costs Rs.550/- per bottle ? From when ?
I thought it used to cost Rs.310/per litre and can be used for a maximum of 2500kms.

[arjunb25]

Not a Superb oil, but runs good for 4000 kms. Used 2 bottles because I got it for Rs.550/bottle from distributor.
Now a days I am not getting good feedback with different engine oils from my Unicorn because
My Unicorn's crankshaft bearing got damaged, funny story- I gave my bike to one of my friends who rode 50kms and returned it, after a few days I observed some noise and was wondering what might have happened. A month later when I met my friend he asked me how many gears does Unicorn has? I asked him what kind of question is it? you have already ridden my bike. He replied - I thought the bike has got only 4 gears and said that he rode the bike with speeds more than 80kmph in 4th gear only. I didn't know how to react...I have nothing more to say.

to be honest u did a mistake u should have given him a hero moto splendor atleast you would have been secured. Ok I got it u had got 2 bottles and u used both in an interval of 2000 km change i.e. Why u used it for 4000 km.
Well so far the bike is doing smooth just changed it did 40 km in a day single in a span of 1 hrs as I was inside the city regions only tom I have plans to take her on a high way lets see how she responds me there.
Plus I am using Ngk spark plugs

[gallifrey]

hello friends can you throw a light on this engine oil I am planning to use it. Going to change it tom.
Hence please give your feed backs for this oil.
Vehicle is honda cb unicorn.

Using the same ax7 on my splendor. Done about 800kms.super smooth. And it doesn't cost 550.got it for 300.highly recommended it.

Sent from my MB855 using Tapatalk 2

[sandeepcf]

Is that a typo ? Shell AX7 can be used for 4000 kms and costs Rs.550/- per bottle ? From when ?
I thought it used to cost Rs.310/per litre and can be used for a maximum of 2500kms.

hello friends can you throw a light on this engine oil I am planning to use it. Going to change it tom.
Hence please give your feed backs for this oil.
Vehicle is honda cb unicorn.

Oopsie! Thought it was "shell ultra".....My mistake......Got confused....was playing call of duty..agitated state of mind...

[muztariq]

Unfortunately, its not the engine oil manufacturer which decides how long the oil would run in a particular machine, its the machine manufacturer who decides.
The engine oil manufacturer does not give warranty to your equipment. The equipment manufacturer does.

Though engine oil manufacturers make a universal product so that any machine can use it... but they cant say which machine will run how long on that oil.

If a Skoda changes castrol magnatec professional 5w40 after 15,000 kms.. that doesnt mean that the same oil will run for 15,000 kms in an alto.

10w30 Honda 'mineral' oil is recommended for 12,000 km change interval in some Honda bikes in some countries.. that does not mean a splendor can run 12,000 km on that oil in the same country . Its not the oil, its the engine.. more importantly the filtration mechanism of oil.

[Pinaki]

if this is the case, how come bikes like Honda CBR250R & Hyosung GT250R have oil change intervals of 5000 - 6000 kms.... ??

Forget these big new bikes , Hero is also recommending 6000kms / 6months extended drain intervals for normal use for their bikes with their oil . This has been since a long time (since they were hero-honda) and others have caught up now . So now Bajaj is recommending 10000kms for their bikes with their oil too . I dunno how much further this competition shall take us and also have the same question as you . But I am not participating in the adventure for sure .

What makes you think that, mineral oils have better drain intervals than other oils?? ...

I never thought that ! I said that I don't believe that one liter of synthetic oil can hold twice or more amount of dirt than one liter of mineral . A reasonable improvement - yes .
The synthetic based oils lasts quite long owing to significantly reduced friction,oxidation and degradation - but it becomes dirty like any other oil , and then you gotta drain it , even if the oil in it is good itself .
This gives rise to a whole new problem too - nearing it's capacity and drain interval , a synthetic based oil would continue to feel nice and smooth , even while it's capacity to clean the engine has been used up and it's saturated with effluents . So you can easily mis-judge it and continue to use spent oil . Do not depend on your feeling of the oil and ride alone , there are several other vital functions an oil has to perform in motorcycle engines than just lubricate .

... My earlier posts says that as you go from Mineral to SS to FS , the base oil quality improves. For any engine oil, the base oil is the most important component. The base oil determines various factors like oil consumption, oil quality just to name a few. So, as the base oil quality improves, the holding capacity, performance factors etc of any oil improves.
All the oil companies try to vary the base oil in the engine oil. This helps them give an edge over other market players ...

Yes I know that base oil quality and it's properties varies . But I don't think that dirt holding capacity and ability to neutrlise acids improves by 100% ( to double the drain interval ) between mineral and syntetic oil . There is so much stuff one liter of oil can hold , before it becomes saturated . Maybe to the tune of 10%-30% with the better base oils like synthetics .... so you can increase drain interval only by that much too .

... Also, the API specs play an important role for making of an oil. The API have laid down certain criteria with regards to the limits for the oils. All the oils have to pass the tests (within specified limits) in order to obtain the required API SG/SL/SM whatsoever.

API does not prescribe drain interval of the oil .

.. hello friends can you throw a light on this engine oil I am planning to use it. Going to change it tom.
Hence please give your feed backs for this oil.
Vehicle is honda cb unicorn.

My personal opinion about 10w40 oil is that if you are going to use this grade , better buy a full synthetic (like the advance ultra ) . That is because of the long range of the oil , mineral and and semi-synth oils need a lot of additives in it to reach this range , and thus contains less oil per volume too . This makes them prone to quick degradation , particularly in an motorcycle engine - where high heat & gear-box shear comes to play . Various engine manufacturers have had their problems with this grade . In just 1000km of use a 10w40 mineral based oil ( which includes the semi-synthetics ) is nearly like an 10W20 oil .

Not a Superb oil, but runs good for 4000 kms. Used 2 bottles because I got it for Rs.550/bottle from distributor.
Now a days I am not getting good feedback with different engine oils from my Unicorn because
My Unicorn's crankshaft bearing got damaged, funny story- I gave my bike to one of my friends who rode 50kms and returned it, after a few days I observed some noise and was wondering what might have happened. A month later when I met my friend he asked me how many gears does Unicorn has? I asked him what kind of question is it? you have already ridden my bike. He replied - I thought the bike has got only 4 gears and said that he rode the bike with speeds more than 80kmph in 4th gear only. I didn't know how to react...I have nothing more to say.

Unicorn can do 80kmph+ fairly unstressed in the 4th cog . Neither your friend or crank-bearing is to blame if have been running 4000kms on a bottle of 10W40 mineral-based oil .

[Touseef Ahmed Mohammed]

if this is the case, how come bikes like Honda CBR250R & Hyosung GT250R have oil change intervals of 5000 - 6000 kms.... ??

Sir, Gt250R has oil change interval every 3k kms. Once i asked for that when i went to Hyosung showroom to have a detailed view of the Hyosung Gt-250R.

[muztariq]

Physics Chapter on Sedimentation -

Rate of sedimentation in a suspension directly depends on Particle density, Fluid Density and inversely to medium Viscosity.. Though, Synthetics have similar density to Minerals, but they are less viscous than mineral. Hence, a mineral would hold more dirt in suspension form than a synthetic.

When I used to make pharmaceutical suspensions, one thing I did to avoid suspensions from settling down was to increase its viscosity and added surface tension reducers.(Dont get into all this)

Diesel mineral oils with high viscosity and extra load of dispersants(surface tension reducers) are the best in holding particles suspended in the oil.

Synthetics are inferior to minerals in this area by virtue of their design.. they cant be viscous!!

[devils_friend]

Unfortunately, its not the engine oil manufacturer which decides how long the oil would run in a particular machine, its the machine manufacturer who decides.
The engine oil manufacturer does not give warranty to your equipment. The equipment manufacturer does.

Though engine oil manufacturers make a universal product so that any machine can use it... but they cant say which machine will run how long on that oil.

If a Skoda changes castrol magnatec professional 5w40 after 15,000 kms.. that doesnt mean that the same oil will run for 15,000 kms in an alto.

10w30 Honda 'mineral' oil is recommended for 12,000 km change interval in some Honda bikes in some countries.. that does not mean a splendor can run 12,000 km on that oil in the same country . Its not the oil, its the engine.. more importantly the filtration mechanism of oil.

Well bro, its the oil manufacturer who recommends the drain intervals. The advertisements posted at various gas stations by oil companies claim these many kms can be run. That oil is not for any particular auto company, but for anybody who want to use it.

Incase of any genuine oil (company specific) for any auto manufacturer, the oil has been tested physically under various conditions by the auto manufacturer. The oil is drained at specific intervals, and then the drained oil is tested for various factors like oxidation, nitration, NOACK and other things. Incase, the oil is within limits, they continue to test the oil again for a certain period and do the sampling again. Once after testing the samples, when the limits of the oil are nearing or exhausted, they count the total KM's run and provide a buffer, then they claim that this oil can run this many KM's.

The company specific oils are different than the market general oils.

My friend owns a Volkswagen Jetta, the first oil change is at 25000 kms. Thats because, its a company specific oil for that car and can do that many kms.

Cheerz!!

[QUOTE=Pinaki;935308]Forget these big new bikes , Hero is also recommending 6000kms / 6months extended drain intervals for normal use for their bikes with their oil . This has been since a long time (since they were hero-honda) and others have caught up now . So now Bajaj is recommending 10000kms for their bikes with their oil too . I dunno how much further this competition shall take us and also have the same question as you . But I am not participating in the adventure for sure .

I never thought that ! I said that I don't believe that one liter of synthetic oil can hold twice or more amount of dirt than one liter of mineral . A reasonable improvement - yes .
The synthetic based oils lasts quite long owing to significantly reduced friction,oxidation and degradation - but it becomes dirty like any other oil , and then you gotta drain it , even if the oil in it is good itself .
This gives rise to a whole new problem too - nearing it's capacity and drain interval , a synthetic based oil would continue to feel nice and smooth , even while it's capacity to clean the engine has been used up and it's saturated with effluents . So you can easily mis-judge it and continue to use spent oil . Do not depend on your feeling of the oil and ride alone , there are several other vital functions an oil has to perform in motorcycle engines than just lubricate .

Yes I know that base oil quality and it's properties varies . But I don't think that dirt holding capacity and ability to neutrlise acids improves by 100% ( to double the drain interval ) between mineral and syntetic oil . There is so much stuff one liter of oil can hold , before it becomes saturated . Maybe to the tune of 10%-30% with the better base oils like synthetics .... so you can increase drain interval only by that much too .

API does not prescribe drain interval of the oil


Hero recommends that, because they have tested the same oil at various parameters and levels. Same goes for Bajaj also.

Also, no oil will feel good once it surpasses certain limits. The claims by companies always have some buffer to it. If they claim 3000kms, the same oil is tested almost certain kms or so.


API does the licensing work for any company to claim API SG/SL/SM or whatsover. All the API categories have a set of engine tests, each oil has to pass these tests to claim any API level. Once API license any company's oil for any level. API gives the license, but the company can also claim API SL @ 3000kms (thats the no. Of KMS run during the test). Marketing gimmick you see

Cheerz!!

[Touseef Ahmed Mohammed]

Bros, a lil question.
What should be the drain interval of ELF MOTO-4 XT TECH 10-50 fully synthetic oil??
When used in fz16?
80% city riding, 20% highway riding.

[devils_friend]

Physics Chapter on Sedimentation -

Rate of sedimentation in a suspension directly depends on Particle density, Fluid Density and inversely to medium Viscosity.. Though, Synthetics have similar density to Minerals, but they are less viscous than mineral. Hence, a mineral would hold more dirt in suspension form than a synthetic.

When I used to make pharmaceutical suspensions, one thing I did to avoid suspensions from settling down was to increase its viscosity and added surface tension reducers.(Dont get into all this)

Diesel mineral oils with high
viscosity and extra load of dispersants(surface tension reducers) are the best in holding particles suspended in the oil.

Synthetics are inferior to minerals in this area by virtue of their design.. they cant be viscous!!

Very much informative bro :beer:

Something to add, the diesel engines have high amount of soot generation, to handle this, the content of dispersant is more in engine oils.

Cheerz!!

[sandeepcf]

Unicorn can do 80kmph+ fairly unstressed in the 4th cog . Neither your friend or crank-bearing is to blame if have been running 4000kms on a bottle of 10W40 mineral-based oil .

I changed my sprockets to 14T-43T where as original were 15T-42T. so 80+ in 4th gear is definitely stressful for the engine.

[Touseef Ahmed Mohammed]

What should be the drain interval of ELF MOTO-4 XT TECH 10-50 fully synthetic oil??
When used in fz16?
80% city riding, 20% highway riding.

[muztariq]

Well bro, its the oil manufacturer who recommends the drain intervals. The advertisements posted at various gas stations by oil companies claim these many kms can be run. That oil is not for any particular auto company, but for anybody who want to use it.

Can you please enlist 5 oils which give drain intervals.. I know two - Bajaj oil and Gulf 4T which enlists 10K as the usable interval under normal conditions.

But let me also tell you that these oils are not usable for 10K kms in any of the bikes we have. Nobody will win a lawsuit in India against these exaggerated claims.

A similar trend initiated in the US where oil companies were claiming 50,000 etc miles on engine oil drain interval.. and all were sued when the engines started failing. Now tell me some multinational brands which claims uvwxyz km change interval - ALL ASK YOU TO FOLLOW MANUFACTURER RECOMMENDATION FOR OIL CHANGE INTERVAL.. some claim you can extend drain intervals, but doesnt tell you how many kms.
You cant sue them as they asked you to extend drain intervals and not the mileage of the car.. i.e they told you that the oil remains 'in grade' for longer and you can extend drain interval i.e "time" and not 'kilometers'. Its a LAWYERS/LEGAL language. You cant sue them if the engine fails. I mean you can sue them but you wont 'win' the lawsuit.

I have a collection of some engine oil labels from around the world and I fail to see any recommendation.. there are 300Vs which have proven their mettle for more than 8000 kms in some of the bikes and we all know it is better than Bajaj's oil any given day. But they fail to even put 3000 kms on their labels as recommended drain interval.

Also read Mobil/Motul/Amsoil etc websites and see what they recommend when somebody asks can I extend drain intervals.. Let me help you with one example -

Here is the source -
Conflicting Advice on Motor Oil Change Intervals

The same oil is used for 15,000 miles in a BMW and 3,000 miles on other cars!

15,000 miles is ~25,000 kms (like your friend's Jetta)

Bros, a lil question.
What should be the drain interval of ELF MOTO-4 XT TECH 10-50 fully synthetic oil??
When used in fz16?
80% city riding, 20% highway riding.

Complete 4000 kms.. see the oil levels and then decide what to do.