Engine Oils

[forceedge]

Re: Engine Oils

I don't know much about the legal side of it, but if a company makes a fake claim, can't they be sued? I think that's very much possible. And why would bajaj take such a risk by claiming 10k km life for their oil? If their claim is found to be false they'll be in deep trouble. There has to be a loophole for them to escape, or the oil isn't as bad as many people think.

Good question Mate!!! Bajaj & other manufacturers have a clause to take them out of these kind of situations, "UNDER STANDARD TEST CONDITIONS", which means they will run their vehicle in an artificial environment, which they think is suitable for their product, temperature controlled, Free of dust, pollution & stupid commuters etc, which results in less wear or the mechanical parts and the demands of the motor, hence running stress free. After successful completion of that test they will certify the product. Generally their products exceeds the requirement for running in those artificially created environment. What destroys oil's life is the excessive heat & mixing of foreign elements(Dust particles) in it, of course the formation of acid through chemical reaction is also there, but most oils today are capable to keep that formation at bay for quiet a long period. Also, Do you know, the continuous running of engine is less harsher on the engine oil compared to the daily heat up and cooling cycle of the engine of the commuter vehicles, that is the reason some car Manufacturers like Mercedes runs their engine till 100000 kms before changing the oil under their standard test conditions. Just once cent from this side.

[raging_bull]

Re: Engine Oils

Good question Mate!!! Bajaj & other manufacturers have a clause to take them out of these kind of situations, "UNDER STANDARD TEST CONDITIONS", which means they will run their vehicle in an artificial environment, which they think is suitable for their product, temperature controlled, Free of dust, pollution & stupid commuters etc, which results in less wear or the mechanical parts and the demands of the motor, hence running stress free. After successful completion of that test they will certify the product. Generally their products exceeds the requirement for running in those artificially created environment. What destroys oil's life is the excessive heat & mixing of foreign elements(Dust particles) in it, of course the formation of acid through chemical reaction is also there, but most oils today are capable to keep that formation at bay for quiet a long period. Also, Do you know, the continuous running of engine is less harsher on the engine oil compared to the daily heat up and cooling cycle of the engine of the commuter vehicles, that is the reason some car Manufacturers like Mercedes runs their engine till 100000 kms before changing the oil under their standard test conditions. Just once cent from this side.

Thanks for the reply .
Yes I'm aware of the test conditions but still, I find their description of the oil to be highly misleading.
They can say that the oil lasts for 10k km during their tests but how can they recommend the same 10k km drain interval to the consumer? It's not like, they're unaware of the difference in conditions. They know it but are trying to mislead the consumers for profits? I think any Court will consider this as a genuine case. What do you think?

Btw, any inputs on the dtsi oil would be nice. I've never seen it but I don't think it's just another ordinary mineral oil (is it?). There has to be some base for Bajaj's claims.

[forceedge]

Re: Engine Oils

Thanks for the reply .
Yes I'm aware of the test conditions but still, I find their description of the oil to be highly misleading.
They can say that the oil lasts for 10k km during their tests but how can they recommend the same 10k km drain interval to the consumer? It's not like, they're unaware of the difference in conditions. They know it but are trying to mislead the consumers for profits? I think any Court will consider this as a genuine case. What do you think?

Btw, any inputs on the dtsi oil would be nice. I've never seen it but I don't think it's just another ordinary mineral oil (is it?). There has to be some base for Bajaj's claims.

Its simply a 20W50 mineral variant prepped and co - branded by HPCL. Yes, I've had experiece with this oil as I am an owner of a P220. Believe me, this oil is good for your commuting usages, but if you are a tourer and/or demands a lot from bike, loves smooth ride then you have to shift to a better oil. this oil is only good upto 3500 kms mark only, that is the Max limit... After that your motor & transmission will speak for itself that they need new oil. I understand the whole point you made, mate, but you can't really do anything as they claim what comes out during their tests, not yours, mines or someone Else's usage. That is what they claim. Also, many manufacturers are kind enough to mention it in the manual that if the motor is being used in extreme environments(Our country, stop & go, countless shifts, ultra high or low speed driving, driving under load etc), then we are supposed to replace and/or check the engine oil, oil filter and the air filter earlier than the specified interval. Also, the DTS - i oil is a mineral oil, Which is API SL rated, which is way behind the newest and latest API SN & API SM. The tests which they conduct are the only base for these claims.

[raging_bull]

Re: Engine Oils

Its simply a 20W50 mineral variant prepped and co - branded by HPCL. Yes, I've had experiece with this oil as I am an owner of a P220. Believe me, this oil is good for your commuting usages, but if you are a tourer and/or demands a lot from bike, loves smooth ride then you have to shift to a better oil. this oil is only good upto 3500 kms mark only, that is the Max limit... After that your motor & transmission will speak for itself that they need new oil. I understand the whole point you made, mate, but you can't really do anything as they claim what comes out during their tests, not yours, mines or someone Else's usage. That is what they claim. Also, many manufacturers are kind enough to mention it in the manual that if the motor is being used in extreme environments(Our country, stop & go, countless shifts, ultra high or low speed driving, driving under load etc), then we are supposed to replace and/or check the engine oil, oil filter and the air filter earlier than the specified interval. Also, the DTS - i oil is a mineral oil, Which is API SL rate, which is way behind the newest and latest API SN & API SM. The tests which they conduct are the only base for these claims.

They say the oil is made specifically for their bikes. He he that's probably why they use the obsolete SL standard . Obsolete machines, obsolete oil :P (kidding).
I think one day, somebody with a fried engine after using the revolutionary oil for 10000km will definitely sue them .

[forceedge]

Re: Engine Oils

They say the oil is made specifically for their bikes. He he that's probably why they use the obsolete SL standard . Obsolete machines, obsolete oil :P (kidding).
I think one day, somebody with a fried engine after using the revolutionary oil for 10000km will definitely sue them .

You never know... Our Country is a country of surprises among the most unsurprising elements... God Bless India...

[B7ACKTHORN]

Re: Engine Oils

Thanks for the reply .
Yes I'm aware of the test conditions but still, I find their description of the oil to be highly misleading.
They can say that the oil lasts for 10k km during their tests but how can they recommend the same 10k km drain interval to the consumer? It's not like, they're unaware of the difference in conditions. They know it but are trying to mislead the consumers for profits? I think any Court will consider this as a genuine case. What do you think?

Btw, any inputs on the dtsi oil would be nice. I've never seen it but I don't think it's just another ordinary mineral oil (is it?). There has to be some base for Bajaj's claims.

The fact of the matter is everything is only skin deep and the same goes for bikes, cars, anything even MPG, of a car or a bike where it was 27 KMPL ARAI certiified, but when it comes to street it hardly touches 27 all you'll ever get is 20 max. But after using DTSI oil less than 3k the oil was a big no no for the bike and for me. Right from using it, she wasn't happy, in the sense the engine clutter was even more stronger that what it used to be, all tell tale signs of her saying, please get this crap out of my system.

Never really care to even consider DTSI for my other bikes. Valvoline is far superior when compared to DTSI oil.

Cheers!
VJ

[sinnerz2000]

Re: Engine Oils

Could be due to oil evaporation and due to lower oil which might have been gotten unnoticed by you, lead to more drying. Good that you spotted it at the right time. Check if there is any unusual leak anywhere in the head or below the engine, if yes then that's the culprit, if no, then oil evap might be the culprit.

Cheers!
VJ

There are no leaks and last time I had used motul 3000, now trying out shell ax7, I hope it was just evaporation, I'll keep a regular track of oil level now and see.

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[Pinaki]

Re: Engine Oils

which motul 3000 ? the 20w40 ? how many kms did you run on it before you detected the problem ? what the total kms your motor has run upto now ? any recent services or parts or repairs or changes done ?

I have done 350 kms trips on my bike few times, it is running on stock engine oil.
So far it doesnt cause any problem, oil level doesnt drop either.7.5k on the odo, will be changing to other oil after sometime. Most xbhpians suggest shell advance ax7 ss oil but its not available in kolkata.Can you guys suggest any other oil? Waiting for your replies P.S - I own an apache RTR 160

Rahul , what is the oil grade / type required by your bike ? please check your owner's manual and see , stick to the recommended grade . If there is no problem with the TVS tru4 oil , why do you want to change it ?

[sinnerz2000]

Re: Engine Oils

which motul 3000 ? the 20w40 ? how many kms did you run on it before you detected the problem ? what the total kms your motor has run upto now ? any recent services or parts or repairs or changes done ?

Rahul , what is the oil grade / type required by your bike ? please check your owner's manual and see , stick to the recommended grade . If there is no problem with the TVS tru4 oil , why do you want to change it ?

Yes the 20w40 motul 3000, detected the problem exactly 2000 km after change which is about 5-6 months back, I know its a long time but I usually change oil at this time period and haven't noticed this problem. Bike has run 44k km so far and as I said there is no smoke from exhaust and no oily deposit at exhaust tip. So far have been doing general services, no major parts changed and not a single engine part changed.

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[B7ACKTHORN]

Re: Engine Oils

Yes the 20w40 motul 3000, detected the problem exactly 2000 km after change which is about 5-6 months back, I know its a long time but I usually change oil at this time period and haven't noticed this problem. Bike has run 44k km so far and as I said there is no smoke from exhaust and no oily deposit at exhaust tip. So far have been doing general services, no major parts changed and not a single engine part changed.

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There are no leaks and last time I had used motul 3000, now trying out shell ax7, I hope it was just evaporation, I'll keep a regular track of oil level now and see.

Sent from my A7+ using Tapatalk 2

Strange! In my stint with the 3000 I never have faced such issue. If you're so surefooted there is no leakage of any sort, no white smoke even when revving the bike when idle or early mornings it might be evap. How is the pickup of the bike, have you faced any such pickup issues lately before and after the oil change?

Cheers!
VJ

[Anuj_Gupta]

Re: Engine Oils

Urgent help needed
Guys my bike is leaking engine oil, right from the day I switched to motul 3100 gold 20w50. Does this oil have tendency to leak. .? Specifically leaking from the bolts of that round cap where oil filter is inserted. I had the both nuts tightened just to check but still it's leaking.
Leak is like 2-4 drops below that area when I drive for like 500m, also I see some minute oil film at the joining of both engine blocks in bottom sir
Also my gear shifting is not what I expected from motul, even gear shifting on dtsi oil was much smoother, when it was new
2500 kms on odo, on motul I've done only max 40kms
UPDATE- no oil leak when bike is in standstill, not even a drop from anywhere, confirmed by placing a napkin below and no trace of oil.also I forget to mention.I had cleaned my engine by some vacuum machine (shopkeeper had it) and then pour about 1.35 to 1.4 litre of oil. Bike is 200ns
I love my bike so much that I changed my headlight faring just because it had a 2cm scratch.
I'm in total depression, please help.

[sinnerz2000]

Re: Engine Oils

Strange! In my stint with the 3000 I never have faced such issue. If you're so surefooted there is no leakage of any sort, no white smoke even when revving the bike when idle or early mornings it might be evap. How is the pickup of the bike, have you faced any such pickup issues lately before and after the oil change?

Cheers!
VJ

I've been using the motul 3000 for a long time this is the first time I've faced this issue, I've had no performance issues but lately I've been having starting issues, I've gotta kick the bike 4-5 times to start it up and there are kick backs and backfires.

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[Pinaki]

Re: Engine Oils

Guys my bike is leaking engine oil, right from the day I switched to motul 3100 gold 20w50. Does this oil have tendency to leak. .? Specifically leaking from the bolts of that round cap where oil filter is inserted. I had the both nuts tightened just to check but still it's leaking.
Leak is like 2-4 drops below that area when I drive for like 500m, also I see some minute oil film at the joining of both engine blocks in bottom sir
Also my gear shifting is not what I expected from motul, even gear shifting on dtsi oil was much smoother, when it was new
2500 kms on odo, on motul I've done only max 40kms
UPDATE- no oil leak when bike is in standstill, not even a drop from anywhere, confirmed by placing a napkin below and no trace of oil.also I forget to mention.I had cleaned my engine by some vacuum machine (shopkeeper had it) and then pour about 1.35 to 1.4 litre of oil. Bike is 200ns .

Firstly it's not because of the oil . The method you used for draining the old oil and fill sounds like some black magic to me . There is no way to clean the engine with any vacuum machine . So do not allow to fool around with the engine like that . Most probably there has been an overfill of the oil and the excess oil pressure is causing it to leak out when engine is running . There is no oil pressure when engine is shut off - so no leaks then . Check oil level using correct procedure - I think I described that just 2 pages back . If that is ok have the bajaj service replace the gaskets & o-rings on the oil-filter cover , both side crankcase covers etc . Next time read your owner's manual about how to change oil and follow it . I cannot believe that you love your bike so much , yet you can't do an oil change by yourself - I believe every biker worth his petrol should be able to do an oil change at the least on his bike .

I've been using the motul 3000 for a long time this is the first time I've faced this issue, I've had no performance issues but lately I've been having starting issues, I've gotta kick the bike 4-5 times to start it up and there are kick backs and backfires ..

First thing I'd suspect is a mistake while filling the oil but the starting issues you mention seems like lack of compression . Ring gap may be beyond tolerances or valve oil seals may be gone - what is the age of the bore & piston ? Check the spark plug for any oily deposits . Keep an weekly eye on the oil level now . It is prudent not to use a 10 base oil in your bike - but that's for the next fill .

[sinnerz2000]

Re: Engine Oils

Firstly it's not because of the oil . The method you used for draining the old oil and fill sounds like some black magic to me . There is no way to clean the engine with any vacuum machine . So do not allow to fool around with the engine like that . Most probably there has been an overfill of the oil and the excess oil pressure is causing it to leak out when engine is running . There is no oil pressure when engine is shut off - so no leaks then . Check oil level using correct procedure - I think I described that just 2 pages back . If that is ok have the bajaj service replace the gaskets & o-rings on the oil-filter cover , both side crankcase covers etc . Next time read your owner's manual about how to change oil and follow it . I cannot believe that you love your bike so much , yet you can't do an oil change by yourself - I believe every biker worth his petrol should be able to do an oil change at the least on his bike .

First thing I'd suspect is a mistake while filling the oil but the starting issues you mention seems like lack of compression . Ring gap may be beyond tolerances or valve oil seals may be gone - what is the age of the bore & piston ? Check the spark plug for any oily deposits . Keep an weekly eye on the oil level now . It is prudent not to use a 10 base oil in your bike - but that's for the next fill .

Age of the bore? In years its about 10 and in kms its 44k. Yea ill get the spark plug checked tomorrow and keep an eye on the oil level. Wouldn't there be a performance drop if the compression is low and there is ring gap? I haven't noticed any performance or mileage drop.

UPDATE: went to my mech today, he reved the bike normally there was no smoke, then he reved it completely and black smoke was puffing out of the exhaust, he confirms that the bike is consuming oil and I have to go for a rebore, gave me a rough estimate of 3.5k

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[B7ACKTHORN]

Re: Engine Oils

Age of the bore? In years its about 10 and in kms its 44k. Yea ill get the spark plug checked tomorrow and keep an eye on the oil level. Wouldn't there be a performance drop if the compression is low and there is ring gap? I haven't noticed any performance or mileage drop.

UPDATE: went to my mech today, he reved the bike normally there was no smoke, then he reved it completely and black smoke was puffing out of the exhaust, he confirms that the bike is consuming oil and I have to go for a rebore, gave me a rough estimate of 3.5k

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When revved hard, you're right most bikes do let out black smoke, but that's absolutely normal when revved real hard, though you shouldn't see continued puff, just a puff or two when revved real hard. If you see white smoke when revving or during start up, it's a sure shot sign of worn out stem seals, and rings. But your mech is right, it's time to get the block replaced.

Cheers!
VJ