Engine Oils

[sancreation]

Re: Engine Oils

sancreation

[GOLDWING]

Re: Engine Oils

sancreation

Mine was genuine though, for sure .
Bought it from an online portal a while back

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MODS , NOT A LITTLE BUT WAY OUT OF TOPIC , BUT THOUGHT I SHOULD MENTION THIS IN FACE OF AN ALARMING RISE IN ADULTERATION.
PLEASE DO AS YOU SEEM APPROPRIATE .
SO, HERE GOES ...

It could be seen as the best tribute the government could pay our colleague Anil Agarwal. At the hearing of the air pollution case in the Supreme Court when the report on fuel adulteration done by the Centre for Science and Environment (CSE) was being discussed, the counsel for the Union government, Mukul Rohtagi, thundered, "the report should be rejected, because CSE is not a 'technical body'. Only Anil Agarwal had some technical knowledge and now that he is not there, the organisation is not competent anymore."

Why do I call this a tribute? Because sitting in court, I realised that the counsel was stooping so low because we had hurt his client, and hurt it hard. Anil would have expected nothing less from us. Standing behind Rohatgi were two officials of the Ministry of Petroleum and Natural Gas (PNG), Shivraj Singh and A P Ram - both instrumental in the ministry's efforts to derail the use of compressed natural gas (CNG) and to push for diesel. We had been their bugbear for long and now their desperation was showing.

This time the issue was adulteration. The court was concerned that gaseous fuels - CNG or LPG - were not accepted because these could not be adulterated, while petrol or diesel could. The government denied this. Its affidavit maintained that "all samples tested for adulteration in Delhi met the specifications laid down by the Bureau of Indian Standards (BIS)" and that the government had "ensured that the right quality of auto fuel was being dispensed in the city".

CSE found otherwise. The court had asked the Environment Pollution (Prevention and Control) Authority (EPCA) to conduct an independent investigation. EPCA, in turn asked CSE. The report - based on surprise collections and testing of samples in the same laboratory mentioned in the government's affidavit - found that over 28 per cent of the samples failed to meet the specifications laid down by the BIS.

But the investigations found much more alarming things. CSE purposely (and quietly) adulterated diesel with kerosene. The laboratory passed the sample adulterated with 20 per cent kerosene. The sample with 10 per cent adulteration also passed. But the sample with 15 per cent adulteration failed in one parameter. Its sulphur level was found to be high - understandable because sulphur content in kerosene is substantially higher than the diesel being supplied to Delhi. But then why did the sample adulterated with 20 per cent kerosene pass?

The report also found that sulphur levels in both diesel and petrol astonishingly went down as the fuel travelled from the refinery, to the depot and then to the retail outlet. At the refinery, in this case Mathura refinery, the sulphur levels ranged from 300 parts per million (ppm) to 400 ppm. But at Bijwasan - the depot where the pipeline brought the oil from the refinery - the sulphur content dropped to 200-300 ppm and then at retail outlet, further dropped to 100-300 ppm. Clearly, with no "desulphurisation" possible en route, something else was happening.

Could it be dilution with an adulterant? A definite possibility. The oil industry had no clear and convincing explanation. But as the tests only need the fuel to meet the standards - in this case 500 ppm of sulphur - not being able to explain does not matter. It is legal, so what if it could be adulterated.

In fact, the fuel specifications made adulteration a legal business, we found. The fuel specifications laid down by the BIS allow for a range wide enough to allow for "intelligent" adulteration. Thus it is possible to adulterate carefully without violating the specifications. My colleagues, who worked on this report, calculated to their horror that it was possible to adulterate petrol with up to 20 per cent naphtha and still meet the BIS specifications. And given the price difference, an outlet could earn a daily profit of Rs 32,000 if it substituted just 15 per cent naphtha in petrol.

Then key parameters are not regulated - aromatics and olefins in petrol and polycyclic hydrocarbons in diesel. So what if this makes detecting adulteration impossible.

In reality, we found nobody is serious about detecting adulteration. The paraphernalia of tests and specifications have been laid down with the purpose of loosely monitoring fuel quality, not to check adulteration. Not even in the expensive laboratories specifically set up for this purpose. Why does this happen?

We have large numbers of technically competent people who are responsible for setting up this system. Did they not know that the system fails to do what it is supposedly designed for?

Is it simply that our bombastic scientific establishment has failed once again in finding solutions to things that affect us in our daily lives?

Or is there more to this seeming lack of competence? Is there scientific "intelligence" behind the business of "intelligent" adulteration? Incompetence or corruption? Will we ever know for certain?

[muztariq]

Re: Engine Oils

There is one available - of 5W40 grade - by the name of
Mobil Super MGDO 5W-40 Semi Synthetic Diesel Oil . The same that is used in MS SWIFT DIESEL , COST 650 APX. FOR 1L

There can be some oils like this one especially the 5w-40 oils. These are fully synthetic or part synthetic 'car' oils. What we are talking here is HDEOs. Heavy duty Diesel Engine Oils used in heavy machinery and equipment. If one has to use a car specific oil in motorbikes like the MGDO oil, I would rather recommend a part-synthetic 4t oil costing somewhere between 350-400 bucks rather than these.

Why we are using HDEOs is primarily to make a mineral oil comfortable and avoid using a FS for our vehicles. If someone is having a comfortable smooth bike, which remains comfortable for 3K kms on a 4t oil which is mineral in nature, he has no need to opt of HDEOs. Normal mineral oils give way post 500 kms and HDEOs take 3K kms. I have repeated this recommendation here - http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/universa...671-print.html

I went for HDEOs only because I was finding mineral oils from Mobil, Motul too rough for my bike which had tasted Shell Advance Ultra (FS). My running was less and using a Rs. 750 oil did not made sense. Found Mobil Super 1300 15w40 HDEO at around 280/litre and later ELF Performance 3D 15w40 HDEO in a similar price, and there was no returning back. All other things like these protect the engine more, these clean the engine better, was secondary. You can search the images of the bold'ed brands on this thread.

Coming back to the topic, I saw the oil level today of my 10 month old oil. It was a little low and as I have exhausted my inventory on the Safari, I took to the road to find a suitable oil. Today, being a sunday, managed to get this oil only. As it was a top up and I couldn't run a week on low oil, immediately filled it up. The bike took 200 ml. I didnt knew ACdelco is getting its oil made by Total. Total is my all time favorite engine oil brand. Their oil is not colored and I like the look of the pure golden oil flowing out of the can. Many engine oil re-processors take oil from mechanics, filter them, add colourants and pass them on to un-suspecting customers. Even some brand new oils like the Gulfs and Castrols are colored. Its relatively easier to copy these oils I think.

[GOLDWING]

Re: Engine Oils

Very well explained , thanks !
Though this one time i used car 5w30 instead of bike 10w30 , and , woah, my FE shot up from 45.23 to 62.71 ( tank-full to tank-full )

[muztariq]

Re: Engine Oils

Very well explained , thanks !
Though this one time i used car 5w30 instead of bike 10w30 , and , woah, my FE shot up from 45.23 to 62.71 ( tank-full to tank-full )

Be careful with that oil. Note engine rpm at various speed. If the rpm rises to achieve the same speed, the clutch is not gripping. With time, the FE will come down because of clutch. It will fall down even below 30. Till that time.. enjoy the ride. Also be careful with the brakes now, as engine braking and handling would have already taken a hit.

[GOLDWING]

Re: Engine Oils

Be careful with that oil. Note engine rpm at various speed. If the rpm rises to achieve the same speed, the clutch is not gripping. With time, the FE will come down because of clutch. It will fall down even below 30. Till that time.. enjoy the ride. Also be careful with the brakes now, as engine braking and handling would have already taken a hit.

Thanks for your concern , But mine is with a DRY Clutch

[ashwinprakas]

Re: Engine Oils

Hi guys, anyone here used 10W50 grade oil? I currently stick with Motul 7100 20W50 and it lasts me well at 2k on the highways, I was wondering if the 10W50 would perform the same. I know that a lower winter grade ensures more startup protection, but I've also read that oil with more friction modifiers last less compared to other oils. Hence wanted to get a user input on the Motul 7100 10W50 which costs some 25/- more than its 20W50 variant.

[muztariq]

Re: Engine Oils

Thanks for your concern , But mine is with a DRY Clutch

Haha.. Now you should use oils which have 'energy conserving' written on them. They are FS mostly.

Hi guys, anyone here used 10W50 grade oil? I currently stick with Motul 7100 20W50 and it lasts me well at 2k on the highways, I was wondering if the 10W50 would perform the same. I know that a lower winter grade ensures more startup protection, but I've also read that oil with more friction modifiers last less compared to other oils. Hence wanted to get a user input on the Motul 7100 10W50 which costs some 25/- more than its 20W50 variant.

It doesnt matter much as 10w50 will have slightly more synthetic content and would be a little faster in flow properties. In city, 10w50 would be better than 20w50, on highway 10w50 will give slightly better mileage than a 20w50, you would be able to accelerate faster with 10w50. 10W50 is a good racing oil, but if you have a long tiresome journey ahead on a large cc bike, a fully synthetic 20w50 would be better.

Consider a 10w50 FS oil to be a racing oil and a 20w50 FS oil to be an endurance oil. 10w50 FS oil would go in a Honda Sportz bike and a 20w50 FS oil would go in a Harley Cruiser.

[Honda_abhi]

Re: Engine Oils

Hi guys, anyone here used 10W50 grade oil? I currently stick with Motul 7100 20W50 and it lasts me well at 2k on the highways, I was wondering if the 10W50 would perform the same. I know that a lower winter grade ensures more startup protection, but I've also read that oil with more friction modifiers last less compared to other oils. Hence wanted to get a user input on the Motul 7100 10W50 which costs some 25/- more than its 20W50 variant.

A 10W50 oil is basically a 10W oil which is thinner than a 20W50 oil. Moreover the number of additives required to get a 10W oil to the viscocity of a XXW50 oil is far higher when compared to a 20W50 oil. These additives break down at high temperatures and get deposited on the engine.

Hence as Mustariq bhai said, 20W50 is an endurance oil which will give superior protection on long journeys for a sustained period of time. Similarly a 10W50 oil is more likely to break down on long journeys at high speeds. So the decision depends on your style of riding.

[curve_king]

Re: Engine Oils

Yes, the engine becomes a little sluggish when the engine is cold. But when it becomes hot, there wont be much of a difference.

Please could you explain a bit more regarding as to why the two (10w30 & 10w40) oils would act differently when engine is cold ?

My experiment with HDEOs has gone well. My Air-cooled Fazer 2011 like the oil a lot.

And sir it would be a lot of help if you could point out which HDEO runs the best among mobil super 1300, Ac delco, Shell , Elf 3D... taking into account engine smoothness, quicker cold starts, engine cooling & smooth gearshifts.

[GOLDWING]

Re: Engine Oils

Please could you explain a bit more regarding as to why the two (10w30 & 10w40) oils would act differently when engine is cold ?



And sir it would be a lot of help if you could point out which HDEO runs the best among mobil super 1300, Ac delco, Shell , Elf 3D... taking into account engine smoothness, quicker cold starts, engine cooling & smooth gearshifts.

Its not that hdeo is the final choice for the best oil. Regular full synthetic do the job well enough ( as mustariq even pointed out on his fazer ) !
Another rule should be bike oil for bikes, pceo for cars, and hdeo for heavy machinery

[curve_king]

Re: Engine Oils

Its not that hdeo is the final choice for the best oil. Regular full synthetic do the job well enough ( as mustariq even pointed out on his fazer ) !
Another rule should be bike oil for bikes, pceo for cars, and hdeo for heavy machinery

Hehehe true that. .
But even my running is very low & shelling out 1k for a full-synth isnt feasible for me.
I have tried a HDEO before but that experience was spoilt by bike running very lean at that time & me realizing it a bit late.
This time I want to try a tried & tested one ( & that too on a similar engine.)

[GOLDWING]

Re: Engine Oils

Hehehe true that. .
But even my running is very low & shelling out 1k for a full-synth isnt feasible for me.
It have tried a HDEO before but that experience was spoilt by bike running very lean at that time & me realizing it a bit late.
This time I want to try a tried & tested one ( & that too on a similar engine.)

YOU SHOULD NOT USE HDEO IN BIKE . WHY ?
BIKES USE THE SAME OIL FOR TRANSMISSION, ENGINE , GEAR AND CLUTCH.
HDEO IS ONLY MADE TO BE USED IN ENGINE, AND NOT IN TRANNY AND GEARS OF THOSE VEHICLES WHICH HAVE SEPARATE OIL SUPPLY!
GEARS AND TRANNY FOR ANY MACHINE NEED EXTRA-PRESSURE ADDITIVES ( READ AS EP ).
BIKE OILS ALREADY HAVE EP ADDITIVES ADDED TO THEM,
WHEREAS HDEOs --- DO NOT !

I REPEAT - YOU ARE MESSING UP YOUR BIKE GEARS AND TRANSMISSION BY USING HDEOs OR PCEOs OR ANY OTHER EOs FOR THAT MATTER EXCEPT MCEOs

[muztariq]

Re: Engine Oils

Please could you explain a bit more regarding as to why the two (10w30 & 10w40) oils would act differently when engine is cold ?

And sir it would be a lot of help if you could point out which HDEO runs the best among mobil super 1300, Ac delco, Shell , Elf 3D... taking into account engine smoothness, quicker cold starts, engine cooling & smooth gearshifts.

First question is answered many time on this thread.
- My first impressions with Mobil 1300 was very good. But it was not a API CI-4 oil. Later when I found ELF 3D, it was much better suited for a motorcycle engine, relatively faster to circulate in cold starts . You can use any API CI-4 HDEO oil to extract maximum benefit from the oil. Rimula R4/ELF3D are such oils.

Hehehe true that. .
But even my running is very low & shelling out 1k for a full-synth isnt feasible for me.
It have tried a HDEO before but that experience was spoilt by bike running very lean at that time & me realizing it a bit late.
This time I want to try a tried & tested one ( & that too on a similar engine.)

HDEOs carry risk of clutch slippage. Although no one experienced it till today on this thread, but risk continues. I am on HDEOs from thousands of kilometers without any issue.
[MENTION=75620]GOLDWING[/MENTION] Usage of all caps is prohibited on the thread. Some say its equivalent to shouting.

[sandeepcf]

Re: Engine Oils

I have also used HDEO oil esp Mobil Delvac super 1300 and 1400 based upon the experience of muztariq bhai for over 20000kms in my Unicorn without any single problem.
Also the same oil including Rimula R3, R4 are being used by my friends in their CT100, 200NS, Yamaha Fazer; and Fazer guy loves Delvac so much that for he comes to my town to purchase it whenever he need to change the oil. I even used Delvac 1400 in my 3000km old Gixxer for about 1000kms before I drained it as I felt it a bit heavier than the recommended 10w40 grade.