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Engine Oils

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  • Liquid Engineering....

    Oils

    What is the meaning of oil?

    Oil - The most important factor or fluid in any machine or vehicle. We can say life saver for moto or machine. We usually pour some kind of oil in our motor (motorcycle or vehicle) for what? Well off course for lubrication, cooling, efficiency, anti-rust agent, protection etc. etc.
    What exactly oil does in the motor is now known to all. But we don't know what kind of a oil we are pouring in the vehicle for example the grade, viscosity, API standards, SAE, JASO, MA, MA2, 20W40, 20W50, 10W30 etc. etc.

    So let's start with

    1. API- American Petroleum Institute
    2. JASO- The Japanese Automotive Standards Organization
    3. "S" grade stands for Petrol vehicles. (Spark Ignition)
    4. "C" grade stands for Diesel vehicles. (Compression)
    5. "W" for winter
    6. Multi grade
    7. Single grade
    8. EP - Extra Pressure
    9. SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers
    10. MA - Grade for Wet Clutch type vehicles (HIGH FRICTION VEHICLES. Non Clutch Slipping Oil)
    11. MA2- next version of MA (HIGH FRICTION VEHICLES Non Clutch Slipping Oil)
    12. MB - LOW FRICTION VEHICLES (NOT RECOMMENDED. Clutch Slipping Oil)
    [MA or MA2 means you are guaranteed that the clutch won't slip]

    Multi grade Oil - Suitable for both vehicles like Diesel and petrol/LPG/CNG.

    Single Grade Oil - Suitable for petrol or diesel, depending on oil grade.

    EP- Extra Pressure, suitable for only gearbox. This grade type is not suitable as engine oil. But not suitable for two stroke engine gear box either. In two stroke motorcycle regular engine oil is recommended as per the company recommendation.

    Petrol Engine Grades: - SA, SB, SC, SD, SE, SF, SG, SH, SJ, SL, SM.

    Diesel Engine Grades: - CA, CB, CC, CD, CD-II, CE, CF, CF-2, CF-4, CG-4, CH-4, CI-4, CJ-4.

    We have all petrol engine motorcycles, so we prefer and company refer only "S" grade. In that, now days we prefer API/SAE-SL/SM (JASO MA or MA2). SM is good with improved oxidation resistance, improved deposit protection, better wear protection, and better low temperature performance.

    Some of the oils directly coming from abroad in India for our Indian motorcycles. Remember one thing in abroad types of vehicles are different than Indian motorcycles in quality & type. Those oils are suitable for higher CC engines but not for Indian motorcycle for sure. Some of the vehicles in abroad are dry clutch so for those motorcycles company recommend different oil. But here we have maximum wet clutch motorcycle which may not be suitable.
    That means company recommended oil is best. At the most we can buy slightly higher grade in the same category for example if the oil grade is >> API SL (JASO MA) which is recommended by company and in the market if the oil company introduces new oil which may be higher than that for example API SM (JASO MA2), then we can buy but not different than this grade for sure. Using of wrong oil grade can cause clutch slippage.

    Some times mechanics pour oil which is suitable for diesel engines and not suitable for petrol engines so ensure the grade is starting from "S" (e.g. SC,SM). If mechanic is using wrong oil then help him to understand the grade type or else don't pour in the engine. The total grade stream is important please do not go only on 20W40 or 10W30 grade type please read and understand the grade type.

    For understanding please refer the description of Oil grades.

    1. - 5W-20, 5W-30, 10W-30,10W-40,20W-50
    2. - 5W-20, 5W-30, 10W-30, 10W-40.
    3.5W-20, 5W-30.

    The above description describes that some of the oil grade starts becoming thick after few minus degrees and the same starts becoming thin after some positive temperature.

    In the same grade we get few more different type of oils for example mineral, semi synthetic and synthetic.

    Q. What is the meaning of mineral?
    A. Mineral oils are based on oil that comes from dear old Mother Earth which has been refined by companies. In simple language NATURAL OIL (Base oil is same for or grades oils)

    Q. What is the meaning of Synthetic oil?
    A. Synthetic oils are entirely concocted by chemists wearing white lab coats in oil company laboratories. In simple language ARTIFICIAL OIL

    Q. What is the meaning of Semi Synthetic Oil?
    A. Semi-synthetic oil, which is a blend of the two. It is safe to mix the different types, but it's wiser to switch completely to a new type rather than mixing.
    In simple language mixing of MINERAL AND ARTIFICIAL OIL.

    It is good if we use flushing liquids before our mechanic friend pour new oil. Usage of flushing liquid is advisable once or twice in a year, depends on kilometer coverage. Do not use kerosene, diesel or petrol as a flushing liquid for removing carbon. It may damage the bearing surface and its oil filming. Please read all the intrstructions before using flushing agents.

    Do not mix mineral oil with synthetic or semi synthetic when we top up the oil level. New grade oils have got better detergents to remove the carbon content. So try to use new grades rather than old. Do not use car engine oils for motorcycle purpose. That may harm the motor. Car engine oils content with friction modifiers. Two wheeler engine oils - specifically four stroke engines with a wet clutch multi plate setup do not need oils with friction modifiers. Friction Modifiers can increase or decrease the friction, but most of the modifiers used are to reduce friction. If we use friction reducer then the clutch will start slipping fast at high rpm or at the time or heavy load and high torque.

    Soon we will hear about ILSAC grades:- International Lubrication Standard Advisory Committee

    Due to some limitation I can't publish all oil grade charts. In the market there are lots of Oil companies, so giving full application chart as per the motorcycle is not possible and grades keep changing, but soon or later I will try to publish it.

    "CorePower"
    Motorcycle Performance
    Pune

    Comment


    • Topic Merged.

      Nice detailed post about engine oils there. But, please do mention the parent source of this information. We, at xBhp do not allow Plagiarism. Please mention the source or the post would be deleted in a couple of hour's time.
      :)

      Comment


      • Originally posted by MG_Biker1806 View Post
        The Engine Oil Thread



        The basic of Engine rating posted by Sandeep_k_ram

        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Sandeep_K_Ram
        "XX" W "YY" as a rating is -

        XX - the Viscosity index rating of the oil at 0degC
        YY - the Viscosity index rating of the oil at 100degC

        the higher the VI rating , the thicker the oil is , less it flows - not ideal for pumping it at low temp but good for sticking to walls or at high temp where a thin oil will become " paani"

        So 20W40 means the oil is having a VI rating of 20 at 0C while at 100C it thins only to the level that a 40Weight oil would thin to .

        Thus 20W50 is relatively speaking thicker at 100C than a 20W40.
        If your engine needs an oil that is at least as thick as 40 at 100C , you can use a bit thicker one - W50 ..even if its not ideal - because its heavier than requried and tougher to pump it .

        But using a less than recommended oil like a W30 means its not thick enough at 100C to stick to walls and might not be lubing the internals well enough .




        Sorry for the copy paste. Dont know how to quote within a quote

        I am thoroughly confused after reading this post. If higher VI rating means higher density/thickness, are we saying oil at 0C is thinner than oil at 100C (because its 40 at 100c)

        The way I see it, oil at 0C would be denser. So 20=denser than 21/40/50. By that measure if we use 20W50 in place of 20W40 we are actually using 'paani' isnt? Sure it flows better, but it thins out compared to 40 right?
        A lone amateur built the ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic...

        Comment


        • Originally posted by NitinGirish View Post
          Quote:
          Originally Posted by Sandeep_K_Ram
          "XX" W "YY" as a rating is -

          XX - the Viscosity index rating of the oil at 0degC
          YY - the Viscosity index rating of the oil at 100degC

          the higher the VI rating , the thicker the oil is , less it flows - not ideal for pumping it at low temp but good for sticking to walls or at high temp where a thin oil will become " paani"

          So 20W40 means the oil is having a VI rating of 20 at 0C while at 100C it thins only to the level that a 40Weight oil would thin to .

          Thus 20W50 is relatively speaking thicker at 100C than a 20W40.
          If your engine needs an oil that is at least as thick as 40 at 100C , you can use a bit thicker one - W50 ..even if its not ideal - because its heavier than requried and tougher to pump it .

          But using a less than recommended oil like a W30 means its not thick enough at 100C to stick to walls and might not be lubing the internals well enough .




          Sorry for the copy paste. Dont know how to quote within a quote

          I am thoroughly confused after reading this post. If higher VI rating means higher density/thickness, are we saying oil at 0C is thinner than oil at 100C (because its 40 at 100c)

          The way I see it, oil at 0C would be denser. So 20=denser than 21/40/50. By that measure if we use 20W50 in place of 20W40 we are actually using 'paani' isnt? Sure it flows better, but it thins out compared to 40 right?
          have you heard that a liquid or a gas contracts on cooling and expands on heating

          the same here the oil would be more dense/viscous at 0 c as compared to 100.

          just remember this simply
          the number indicates (xx W yy)

          left side of w-LOWER THE NUMBER BETTER THE PERFORMANCE

          right side of w-BIGGER THE NUMBER BETTER THE PERFORMANCE

          so 20 w 50 is better (is more viscous at 100 degree) than 20 w 40

          similarly 10 w 40 is better (is more free flowing at o degree) than say 15 w 30.

          hope you get this!
          Literate people go by specifications.sigpic

          Comment


          • Originally posted by rockinggokul View Post

            just remember this simply
            the number indicates (xx W yy)

            left side of w-LOWER THE NUMBER BETTER THE PERFORMANCE

            right side of w-BIGGER THE NUMBER BETTER THE PERFORMANCE

            so 20 w 50 is better (is more viscous at 100 degree) than 20 w 40

            similarly 10 w 40 is better (is more free flowing at o degree) than say 15 w 30.

            hope you get this!
            @rockinggokul:
            I dont quite agree with this. If this was the case,
            left side of w-LOWER THE NUMBER BETTER THE PERFORMANCE

            right side of w-BIGGER THE NUMBER BETTER THE PERFORMANCE

            then why didn't all the bike manufactures recommend an engine oil with the lowest VI on the left and the highest VI on the right?

            See, according to what I understand from the scenario of oils, every machine like an engine needs THEIR own thinnest liquid which will force the moving parts apart.
            This means that the energy needed by a ZMA( engine) to keep the surfaces moving can be different from the energy needed by a PULSAR(engine) to keep the surfaces moving.
            And that is why each company recommends a different grade depending on the engine.

            ANYONE: please correct me if i am wrong
            because this is what I understood.
            Never Argue with an Idiot !!!
            He will bring you down to his level and beat you with his experience.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Aryan View Post
              Topic Merged.

              Nice detailed post about engine oils there. But, please do mention the parent source of this information. We, at xBhp do not allow Plagiarism. Please mention the source or the post would be deleted in a couple of hour's time.
              Before deleting, i should copy the details... !!!HURRY!!!
              sigpic...Ride Long...Ride Safe...

              When you dance with the devil, you wait for the song to stop...

              Comment


              • Hehe,,,, why do u wanna tell everyone that ur copying this stuff???
                I already did it...[ssh]

                somebody pls comment on my previous post because i have a few more questions to ask if i was right
                Never Argue with an Idiot !!!
                He will bring you down to his level and beat you with his experience.

                Comment



                • Can anyone please help me out for where i can get this oil ?
                  The Automotive batteries are designed to work best in a typical short start-stop fashion.
                  So to increase the life of your automobile battery, blow the horn and flash the pass light in a quick start stop fashion instead of a conitnuous long horn blow or flash light continuous on!!
                  And obviously don't stretch the self start far too long.

                  Comment


                  • Engine oil for apache RTR 160

                    Guys i would like to know the perfect engine oil for my bike, which would give me a smooth engine performance.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by honda_vings View Post

                      Can anyone please help me out for where i can get this oil ?
                      Its not available in India so don't waste you time.

                      Comment


                      • Motul 5000T Vs Veedol super swift, after long run.

                        UPDATE: Used Motul 5000T engine oil for about 4K kms and Veedol super swift engine oil on my TVS Fiero F2 having run on 56K kms old engine and i found that Motul oil makes the engine smooth till arond 3K kms and then the engine becomes very rough, needing to change the oil at that interval. Whereas, after changing oil to Veedol super swift, the engine doesn't become smooth at all like Motul but even after running around 3.5k kms the engine doesn't become rough as in Motul. So take your choice folks!

                        Regards,
                        Ramki

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Coplay@180 View Post
                          @rockinggokul:
                          I dont quite agree with this. If this was the case,
                          left side of w-LOWER THE NUMBER BETTER THE PERFORMANCE

                          right side of w-BIGGER THE NUMBER BETTER THE PERFORMANCE

                          then why didn't all the bike manufactures recommend an engine oil with the lowest VI on the left and the highest VI on the right?

                          See, according to what I understand from the scenario of oils, every machine like an engine needs THEIR own thinnest liquid which will force the moving parts apart.
                          This means that the energy needed by a ZMA( engine) to keep the surfaces moving can be different from the energy needed by a PULSAR(engine) to keep the surfaces moving.
                          And that is why each company recommends a different grade depending on the engine.

                          ANYONE: please correct me if i am wrong
                          because this is what I understood.
                          simple b'coz not needed.(you increase the oil grade to fight certain conditions)
                          the company specified oil grade is optimum for their bike in other sense
                          take it as minimum rating needed to keep the bike performing well(under normal temperature (read:27 degrees)or room temperature)

                          when you take a oil say 20 W 40 AS COMPANY RECOMMENDED

                          see the company doesn't know which sort of conditions you live in!!

                          but if you live in a hot environment then using 20 W 50 WOULD GIVE YOU BETTER RESULTS as this oil would maintain its viscosity even then.

                          similarly foe colder climates using SAY 15W40/10W40/5W40 ETC.

                          ALL OF THEM WOULD PERFORM BETTER THAN YOUR STOCK OIL WHICH IS 20W40.

                          Literate people go by specifications.sigpic

                          Comment


                          • Yeah even this makes sense to a certain extent
                            Thanks man..
                            Never Argue with an Idiot !!!
                            He will bring you down to his level and beat you with his experience.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Coplay@180 View Post
                              Yeah even this makes sense to a certain extent
                              Thanks man..
                              Always Welcome !!
                              Literate people go by specifications.sigpic

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by rockinggokul View Post
                                have you heard that a liquid or a gas contracts on cooling and expands on heating

                                the same here the oil would be more dense/viscous at 0 c as compared to 100.

                                just remember this simply
                                the number indicates (xx W yy)

                                left side of w-LOWER THE NUMBER BETTER THE PERFORMANCE

                                right side of w-BIGGER THE NUMBER BETTER THE PERFORMANCE

                                so 20 w 50 is better (is more viscous at 100 degree) than 20 w 40

                                similarly 10 w 40 is better (is more free flowing at o degree) than say 15 w 30.

                                hope you get this!
                                Originally posted by rockinggokul View Post
                                simple b'coz not needed.(you increase the oil grade to fight certain conditions)
                                the company specified oil grade is optimum for their bike in other sense
                                take it as minimum rating needed to keep the bike performing well(under normal temperature (read:27 degrees)or room temperature)

                                when you take a oil say 20 W 40 AS COMPANY RECOMMENDED

                                see the company doesn't know which sort of conditions you live in!!

                                but if you live in a hot environment then using 20 W 50 WOULD GIVE YOU BETTER RESULTS as this oil would maintain its viscosity even then.

                                similarly foe colder climates using SAY 15W40/10W40/5W40 ETC.

                                ALL OF THEM WOULD PERFORM BETTER THAN YOUR STOCK OIL WHICH IS 20W40.
                                Phew! I still didnt get it :-( Do numbers on both the sides relate to same unit?

                                What I am trying to figure out is whether 20 is more free flowing than say 10 in 10 W 40.

                                Why do numbers on both the sides carry different meanings? Why does number on one side better as it gets progressively greater and vice versa?

                                What is viscosity Flexiblity of oil to maintain a specific level of density under wide operating temparatures or viscosity=ability to free flow?

                                Sorry for too many questions. But I didnt understand the logic
                                A lone amateur built the ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic...

                                Comment

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