Universal : Riding Gear Thread

[B7ACKTHORN]

VJ - The ADONIS is not just denim. It has a Kevlar lining on the inside which is a ballistic grade material. The Kevlar is used in the impact areas where abrasion against the road is most likely, namely the knees, sides of the leg and the butt. The design is such that even if the denim burns through in a slide, the Kevlar will not and prevent the skin from coming in contact with the road. KNOX armour is provided for impact protection at the knees inside a Kevlar pocket. The armour is removable for washing the garment. Here is a picture.

Absolutely true that. I myself have worn a brand from UK, with same denim and kevlar. Fact of the matter is at least 95% of riding demim pants are lined with kevlar and with crazy color combinations. Just looking for the right color for the right price.

Cheers!
VJ

[Sunnyside_up!]

@B7ACKTHORN: i looked at spartan helios also, but-->>

• it does not have a thermal liner.
• it is not a well known brand.
• so what is the authenticity of its CE rating.
• it does not have pockets for chest pads.
• it is not written on website that it has KNOX armour

can you tell me what will be the cost with upgraded level-2 armour, also i know somebody here on xbhp has purchased and review it, can u point me to that post.

btw, what do you think of my plan to wear an upper torso armour under a jacket.

Words fail me every once in a while, so I will not try

LEVEL 2 back protectors that fit into jackets are not readily available in India AFAIK and those that are cost a bomb - about 15k for dedicated LEVEL 2 back protectors. I was lucky to get one for evaluation.

Regarding your idea of wearing plastic under a jacket, I suggest the reverse. Wear the jacket under the plastic, so that it will not tear on impact against the road. These kind of roost protectors are worn normally for off-road under loose MX jerseys and I have not seen it used for street and highway use. Again, the problem is that impact absorption is dependent on the thin foam used to hold the pieces together.

Without meaning any offense, I must say that your thought process seems a little muddled. On one hand you want to try experimenting with iffy products and but on the other you are talking about Level 2 protectors??

[princesirohi]

^^ that i why i am discussing it here, the spartan website says there is an option of upgrading to level-2 armour, and blackthorn is recommending it, whereas you are sayiing level-2 protection is barely available in india and cost a bomb. that is the whole reason of discussing it here, either spartan is a wonder product for providing a level-2 protection in 7500 rupees or others are selling it for too much cost. either you are right or blackthorn is right. very confusing stuation...

regarding MX protectors, i know ppl wear it on loose jerseys, and almost nobody wear it alongside a jacket. my problem is that i want best available protection in 8000-8500 rupees. that is the whole idea. and wearing upper torso armour above jacket is not practicle, not only it will look weird, but basically jacket is a bit loose so the torso protector will move a bit here and there, if i wear it inside jacket it will be secured in its place properly and will not look awkward or weird.

i am not trying to increase abrasion resistance, i am trying to increase impact resistance.

and my thinking is not muddled, see most of the jackets do not provide any protection to chest, and also no protection is there for the long bones of your upper torso, from shoulder to elbow, and elbow to wrist, elbow and shoulder protectors only protect the joints, but when you have a head on collision at high speeds, long bones are the ones that break first.

[B7ACKTHORN]

^^ that i why i am discussing it here, the spartan website says there is an option of upgrading to level-2 armour, and blackthorn is recommending it, whereas you are sayiing level-2 protection is barely available in india and cost a bomb. that is the whole reason of discussing it here, either spartan is a wonder product for providing a level-2 protection in 7500 rupees or others are selling it for too much cost. either you are right or blackthorn is right. very confusing stuation...

regarding MX protectors, i know ppl wear it on loose jerseys, and almost nobody wear it alongside a jacket. my problem is that i want best available protection in 8000-8500 rupees. that is the whole idea. and wearing upper torso armour above jacket is not practicle, not only it will look weird, but basically jacket is a bit loose so the torso protector will move a bit here and there, if i wear it inside jacket it will be secured in its place properly and will not look awkward or weird.

i am not trying to increase abrasion resistance, i am trying to increase impact resistance.

and my thinking is not muddled, see most of the jackets do not provide any protection to chest, and also no protection is there for the long bones of your upper torso, from shoulder to elbow, and elbow to wrist, elbow and shoulder protectors only protect the joints, but when you have a head on collision at high speeds, long bones are the ones that break first.

Prince, Sunny has a valid point. The point me meant was you're a little confused as to which one to pick, coupled with the eagerness to get it all at once Thing is, you need to analyze what you want. Yes you're absolutely right about protection, protection is prime. PERIOD.

Secondly, Level 1 and Level 2 are equally half in their tests, Level 2 is for more serious riders, and track oriented, and there is even more stricter norms for race suits, let's leave it at that. Now coming it Level 1 or Level 2, Knox is a widely recognized armor, and you can be rest assured, it's Level 1 which is basic for most other CE rated jackets out there.

The reason there so much fuss associated with KNOX, is the brand value it has attached to it, and of course it shows in their products. When someone markets something and they stress something that has a good reputation for a good product, we automatically tend to lean over that product, due to the premium, heritage and the peace of mind it offers. It doesn't mean all others are inferior.

For example Powertector armor too has been in the making for well over years, and even they have to adhere to thesame standards that KNOX adheres to, but it's the difference branding makes.

To sum it up, don't think over it too hard. Forget plastics as Sunny said. Get the KNOX armor upgrade and you're all set for the riding we do here.

Cheers!
VJ

[princesirohi]

re: Universal : Riding Gear Thread

It is mentioned on there website that we can upgrade to level-2 armour..what exactly they mean by level-2...is it 1621-2 - level-2...if that is the case is this protection available in 7500 as u said.?

Also nowhere on the website it is mentioned as KNOX armour.

Are u sure it has both thermal as well as rain liner.

So are you recommending spartan heluos over cramster, dsg, rjays etc.

Sent from my GT-S5570 using Tapatalk 2

[krish2778]

It is mentioned on there website that we can upgrade to level-2 armour..what exactly they mean by level-2...is it 1621-2 - level-2...if that is the case is this protection available in 7500 as u said.?

Also nowhere on the website it is mentioned as KNOX armour.

Are u sure it has both thermal as well as rain liner.

So are you recommending spartan heluos over cramster, dsg, rjays etc.

Sent from my GT-S5570 using Tapatalk 2

I think the explaination can be seen that, the website has not been updated. I guess the facebook page has more updates than the Website. have a look at the Spartan gear facebook page, might answer most of your questions.

https://www.facebook.com/SpartanProGear?ref=ts&fref=ts

Cheers
Ride Safe
Krishna

[Sunnyside_up!]

@ Prince - I hope this helps a bit.


As per modern CE standards, back armour is supposed to meet the requirements of the EN-1621 - 2 standard. This standard is further divided into 2 Levels.

In the Level 1, the transmitted force to the body should not exceed an average of 18kN. In the Level 2, the transmitted force should not exceed an average of 9kN. Obviously, the Level 2 is superior. That said, very few companies make Level 2 armour that can be inserted into jackets. Most of them resort to wearable protectors than can be worn separately under the jacket.

It must be remembered that these separately worn protectors are usually a combination of polyethylene (PE) and high tech impact absorbing materials and should not be confused with plastic motocross armour. The plastic body armour is meant for protection from gravel and flying stones kicked up from the rider in front and will not protect against high speed impact.

But I am digressing as I wanted to explain better about the different types of armour used inside textile jackets.

1. Plain Foam

- The most popular kind of back "armour" is actually a filler used by jacket manufacturers to maintain the shape of the jacket. This foam has very little impact absorption and at best can be described as a padding, about 8mm thick. Here is a picture.





2. Dual Density Foam

- This kind of protector uses two different densities of foam fused together to get better impact protection. Here is a picture.



This dual density foam is usually about 10mm in the edges and contoured to about 15mm in the centre and is considered an entry level back protector devised by commercial manufacturers to meet CE rating.



The dual density construction makes the protector quite stiff and strong but still lightweight.



Compare this to the plain foam - which has no rigidity at all.






3. LEVEL 1 Armour

- These kinds of armour are manufactured by specialist armour companies, famous among them are KNOX, Sas-Tec and D3O. They use different technologies like cellular construction, specialty materials and compounds and also combination technologies to achieve the low impact transmission ratings required by the CE standard. Here is a KNOX Advance X Armour from my jacket.



It looks really thick and uses a combination of honeycomb construction in its core to absorb impact and also specialty energy absorbing compounds. It is however as light as a feather - about 100 grams only.



I also removed a Sas-Tec Level 1 armour from another jacket to show you. This one uses Sas-Tec's visco-elastomeric PU compounds to achieve impact absorption.



This one is about 15mm thick only. But weighs a bit more than the KNOX. It's soft compound though makes it very comfortable inside the jacket.






4. LEVEL 2 Armour

- The highest standard in back armour currently, it is normally made with special high impact absorbing compounds. This is pro level stuff and frankly out of reach for most of us because of their exhorbitant cost. The most famous are SaS-Tec and D3O. Below is a picture of a Sas-Tec back protector that uses their special visco-elastomeric compounds to achieve the CE Level 2 standard.



It is very soft, malleable and comfortable to wear, with the feature that is becomes softer with the body heat and hardens when not in use. It is however, quite thick - above 20mm thick.





CE LEVEL 2 Torso Protector

I sometimes use another product which I wanted to show you - the Forcefield upper torso protector which is I think what you would really prefer - LEVEL 2 back, LEVEL 1 chest and limb protectors all integrated into one product. Unfortunately a friend of mine borrowed it and is using it on track inside his leathers this week end at CSS, so I could not photograph it. Here is a reference image though.



This is made of Forcefield's proprietary Nitrile rubber composites which are highly energy absorbent but yet is soft enough to be worn under a jacket. I must caution you though that this gear weighs a good bit - more than a kg and also costs a bomb too but is the most secure and protective gear that I have ever used. I will photograph and report on this separately.

[B7ACKTHORN]

@ Prince - I hope this helps a bit.


As per modern CE standards, back armour is supposed to meet the requirements of the EN-1621 - 2 standard. This standard is further divided into 2 Levels.

In the Level 1, the transmitted force to the body should not exceed an average of 18kN. In the Level 2, the transmitted force should not exceed an average of 9kN. Obviously, the Level 2 is superior. That said, very few companies make Level 2 armour that can be inserted into jackets. Most of them resort to wearable protectors than can be worn separately under the jacket.

It must be remembered that these separately worn protectors are usually a combination of polyethylene (PE) and high tech impact absorbing materials and should not be confused with plastic motocross armour. The plastic body armour is meant for protection from gravel and flying stones kicked up from the rider in front and will not protect against high speed impact.

But I am digressing as I wanted to explain better about the different types of armour used inside textile jackets.

1. Plain Foam

- The most popular kind of back "armour" is actually a filler used by jacket manufacturers to maintain the shape of the jacket. This foam has very little impact absorption and at best can be described as a padding, about 8mm thick. Here is a picture.

2. Dual Density Foam

- This kind of protector uses two different densities of foam fused together to get better impact protection. Here is a picture.

This dual density foam is usually about 10mmn the edges and contoured to about 15mm in the centre and is considered an entry level back protector devised by commercial manufacturers to meet CE ratin

The dual density construction makes the protector quite stiff and strong but still lightweight.


Compare this to the plain foam - which has no rigidity at all.

3. LEVEL 1 Armour

- These kinds of armour are manufactured by specialist armour companies, famous among them are KNOX, Sas-Tec and D3O. They use different technologies like cellular construction, specialty materials and compounds and also combination technologies to achieve the low impact transmission ratings required by the CE standard. Here is a KNOX Advance X Armour from my jacket.
It looks really thick and uses a combination of honeycomb construction in its core to absorb impact and also specialty energy absorbing compounds. It is however as light as a feather - about 100 grams only.

I also removed a Sas-Tec Level 1 armour from another jacket to show you. This one uses Sas-Tec's visco-elastomeric PU compounds to achieve impact absorption.

This one is about 15mm thick only. But weighs a bit more than the KNOX. It's soft compound though makes it very comfortable inside the jacket.

4. LEVEL 2 Armour

- The highest standard in back armour currently, it is normally made with special high impact absorbing compounds. This is pro level stuff and frankly out of reach for most of us because of their exhorbitant cost. The most famous are SaS-Tec and D3O. Below is a picture of a Sas-Tec back protector that uses their special visco-elastomeric compounds to achieve the CE Level 2 standard.

It is very soft, malleable and comfortable to wear, with the feature that is becomes softer with the body heat and hardens when not in use. It is however, quite thick - above 20mm thick.

CE LEVEL 2 Torso Protector

I sometimes use another product which I wanted to show you - the Forcefield upper torso protector which is I think what you would really prefer - LEVEL 2 back, LEVEL 1 chest and limb protectors all integrated into one product. Unfortunately a friend of mine borrowed it and is using it on track inside his leathers this week end at CSS, so I could not photograph it. Here is a reference image though.



This is made of Forcefield's proprietary Nitrile rubber composites which are highly energy absorbent but yet is soft enough to be worn under a jacket. I must caution you though that this gear weighs a good bit - more than a kg and also costs a bomb too but is the most secure and protective gear that I have ever used. I will photograph and report on this separately.

Well, honestly I was typing and I just saw a pop up, Sunnyside_up has replied to Riding Gears Thread, and I knew I would spare my word for it, and it better shows. Excellently narrated.

Cheers!
VJ

[Sunnyside_up!]

It is mentioned on there website that we can upgrade to level-2 armour..what exactly they mean by level-2...is it 1621-2 - level-2...if that is the case is this protection available in 7500 as u said.?

Also nowhere on the website it is mentioned as KNOX armour.

Are u sure it has both thermal as well as rain liner.

So are you recommending spartan heluos over cramster, dsg, rjays etc.

Sent from my GT-S5570 using Tapatalk 2

As Krishna has mentioned, the website is not updated yet. This is because the formal launch of the KNOX gear is during the IBW, in Goa on Feb 2nd. However, stocks are already in place with dealers and several have even purchased it ( see a few pages back a post by Sandeep ).

The HELIOS jacket comes with a rain liner and is available with KNOX armour in elbows and shoulders for Rs.6250/- inclusive tax. To upgrade and replace the supplied dual density back armour with KNOX advance back armour is Rs.1800 extra. An extra 3M Thinsulate thermal liner is Rs.700/- extra. Alternatively, you can ask for a thermal liner INSTEAD of a rain liner, in which case, there is no extra cost. (This option is available for online purchase only).

The website mentions that you can upgrade to Level 2 armour - which means that you can buy one if you want and insert it, since the jacket is designed to accept even the thickness of a level 2. I have a LEVEL 2 Sas-Tec in my Helios.

I do not recommend the HELIOS or any product over any thing or any other product. I do however recommend and strongly urge that you read, research, study and educate yourself with the ample material, knowledge shared by other friends and members of this forum and elsewhere and form an opinion for yourself. It is after all your skin.

[xtremevicky]

Picked up DSG primal for 2750 from Helmet Paradise.

Finally the search is over. Time to research for Jacket and finding sunnyside_up posts very helpful.

[B7ACKTHORN]

Picked up DSG primal for 2750 from Helmet Paradise.

Finally the search is over. Time to research for Jacket and finding sunnyside_up posts very helpful.

Don't forget to post the reviews of your gloves with some good snaps of it

Cheers!
VJ

[xtremevicky]

Don't forget to post the reviews of your gloves with some good snaps of it

Cheers!
VJ

Yup sure mate.

Let me use them for a couple of weeks and I shall update give a small Review.

[Adarsh_Bk]

@Sunnyside_up! : Bro, Thanks for so much info! I really had no clue regarding all the standards and the type of armours available..

I have been using DSG Falcon but I wanted to upgrade since a long time.. Had zeroed in on Rjays Swift but heard better reviews about Helios and now the extra knox addon too! So I guess I will wait for launches at IBW and then decide. I will be using the jacket everyday (Office/city riding etc) and also the weekend rides. Hope the thermal/rain liner will also fare well against the early morning cold winds. Is there any other mesh jacket I should keep in mind?? Any reviews of DSG rage here?

[shahbaz63]

Rjay's are best in terms of ventilation & quality according to me. I am using Jet Stream II, using it for every day....

[B7ACKTHORN]

Rjay's are best in terms of ventilation & quality according to me. I am using Jet Stream II, using it for every day....

Can you do me a favor, can you take a snap of your back protector removed and post a pic for me please. I've work them, long back, but didn't get the chance to remove the back protector!

Cheers!
VJ