Universal : Riding Gear Thread

[somenath1061]

Re: Universal : Riding Gear Thread

After all this discussion, which jacket is good under 10k???

Whatever you buy do not buy a full black jacket. It gets pretty hot in the sun. Make sure it has reflective panels and ofcourse good protection. Do not make a decision based on the jacket weight. At 10k your options are limited to a few jackets only i.e. top of the line Indian brands.

[MidnightEvil Parth]

Re: Universal : Riding Gear Thread

After all this discussion, which jacket is good under 10k???

Go overboard 10k, buy Shima xMesh. (brand from Poland, really good quality, protectors are from Powertactor Korea, same as Dainese)

Or under 10k, buy TBG Knight 2. (Indian brand, good quality though nothing close to Shima, protectors are from Sastec Germany, same as BMW/Held/ScorpionEXO. Sastec is very light)
For mesh.
Though I would recommend waiting, 2018 has just started !
TBG is available in only black, while Shima is available in other colours.

[Richardson's]

Re: Universal : Riding Gear Thread

Finally managed to upgrade to a decent Helmet and Gloves.
Prior to this I was using Steelbird Air and Syocco gloves. They were okay for 30-50kmph but my recent rides in highway increased forcing me to go upto 70-85kmph frequently thus this upgrade.
I hope I never get into a situation where these get tested .

Initial impression :
1. MT Revenge : Carries a Sharp 5 rating, excellent fit, very good build quality, noise not present till 100 kmph mark - haven't done beyond that yet...my bike barely does 130kmph in theory so...:P

2. Aspida Pegasus - Excellent Fit, Easy operation to take on and off, comfortable for summer despite the leather build, decent amount of Armour but lack under palm padding which is quite useful in case you ever end up sliding a long way on your palm.

3. Ustra Helmet Spray - 199 rs . I haven't used a helmet spray before, so I honestly don't know what it's worth. I bought them just to ensure my MT Revenge stays healthy.

Cost for MT+Aspida+Spray =10,000rs.

Pictures : Bandwidth warning!
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[drive_angry]

Re: Universal : Riding Gear Thread

Finally managed to upgrade to a decent Helmet and Gloves.
Prior to this I was using Steelbird Air and Syocco gloves. They were okay for 30-50kmph but my recent rides in highway increased forcing me to go upto 70-85kmph frequently thus this upgrade.
I hope I never get into a situation where these get tested .

Initial impression :
1. MT Revenge : Carries a Sharp 5 rating, excellent fit, very good build quality, noise not present till 100 kmph mark - haven't done beyond that yet...my bike barely does 130kmph in theory so...:P

2. Aspida Pegasus - Excellent Fit, Easy operation to take on and off, comfortable for summer despite the leather build, decent amount of Armour but lack under palm padding which is quite useful in case you ever end up sliding a long way on your palm.

3. Ustra Helmet Spray - 199 rs . I haven't used a helmet spray before, so I honestly don't know what it's worth. I bought them just to ensure my MT Revenge stays healthy.

Cost for MT+Aspida+Spray =10,000rs.

Pardon me for my noob question but what does a helmet spray actually supposed to do? Kills the bacteria due to accumulation of oil or something.

drive_angry

[Richardson's]

Re: Universal : Riding Gear Thread

Pardon me for my noob question but what does a helmet spray actually supposed to do? Kills the bacteria due to accumulation of oil or something.

drive_angry

Yes I am under the impression that it kills the fungi (maybe bacteria and other micro organisms too) and keep it odor free. I do sweat a bit ( blame the weather in Delhi) and also there is way too much dust and pollution in Delhi.

[MidnightEvil Parth]

Re: Universal : Riding Gear Thread

Great helmet ! Although the SHARP rating doesn't matter much, but nevertheless the helmet is really good quality.

Gloves look good too !

Helmet spray - I honestly never used one.
Also about the sweating, maybe a balaclava should help.

[The Mountain]

Re: Universal : Riding Gear Thread

Pardon me for my noob question but what does a helmet spray actually supposed to do? Kills the bacteria due to accumulation of oil or something.

drive_angry

Yes I am under the impression that it kills the fungi (maybe bacteria and other micro organisms too) and keep it odor free. I do sweat a bit ( blame the weather in Delhi) and also there is way too much dust and pollution in Delhi.

Check the instruction booklet for your helmet. Many helmets have removable padding/liners, so you can take it out and wash it when it gets nasty. Even if your helmet does not have removable padding, just using tepid (slightly warm) water and a mild laundry detergent like Woolite original (hand wash) will be more than sufficient. Just close the shield and vents, add a small spoonful of the detergent and fill the helmet about halfway with tepid water. Massage the padding by hand to get it thoroughly soaked and loosen all the accumulated grime, then open all the vents and shield, drain, and refill with just warm water a few times to rinse out the soap residue. Leave the shield and vents open, press the water out of the padding, turn the helmet upside down (neck opening up) and let it air-dry in a shaded area with good ventilation. Do not dry in direct sunlight as that will damage the EPS foam protection. Washing removable padding is the same, except you can just dump the padding into the bucket of tepid water and detergent, and work them by hand there.

Once washed, press the water out of the padding (do NOT twist), hang the padding away from sunlight in a well-ventilated area to dry. While that's drying, you can gently wash the inside of the helmet shell with warm water and woolite also. Do not use a heavy scrubbing motion, and do not use a cloth or sponge; just your hand. Otherwise you will damage the EPS. You can use earbuds (Q-tips) to clean out vent holes.

[Richardson's]

Re: Universal : Riding Gear Thread

Thanks mountain for your input. I will try that.

On a side note : How long it usually takes for a new helmet to settle in ? It feels like a tight fit, because I can feel my earlobe under pain at times. Also, its relatively very difficult to get on the head and get off, is this going to be like forever or it'll become easier over time ?

[somenath1061]

Re: Universal : Riding Gear Thread

Thanks mountain for your input. I will try that.

On a side note : How long it usually takes for a new helmet to settle in ? It feels like a tight fit, because I can feel my earlobe under pain at times. Also, its relatively very difficult to get on the head and get off, is this going to be like forever or it'll become easier over time ?

Approximately 5-10 hour of riding time.

[Astrix]

Re: Universal : Riding Gear Thread

Thanks mountain for your input. I will try that.

On a side note : How long it usually takes for a new helmet to settle in ? It feels like a tight fit, because I can feel my earlobe under pain at times. Also, its relatively very difficult to get on the head and get off, is this going to be like forever or it'll become easier over time ?

Typically a new helmet will be tight but it does break in when the foam around the checks softens/flattens a bit. However please note, sometimes if the pain is persistent it can cause bad headaches. Make sure you have picked up the right size.

[MotoBlizzard]

Re: Universal : Riding Gear Thread

Great helmet ! Although the SHARP rating doesn't matter at all, but nevertheless the helmet is really good quality.

Would love to know why SHARP rating doesnt matter.

[MidnightEvil Parth]

Re: Universal : Riding Gear Thread

Would love to know why SHARP rating doesnt matter.

See, SHARP ratings can be taken into consideration, but sure it should not be the only reason for you to pick a helmet.
SHARP is a repeatable and constant test mark.
When the SHARP tests were first launched there was quite a debate around the tests they were using, and why some of the industry experts felt that they were incorrect and potentially misleading.
They always have the impact on the same place on the outer shell of the helmets they test. This does not take into account that different helmets sit differently on the head, meaning that the SHARP impacts are actually hitting different parts of the head (not the helmet) with different helmets.

There is other criticism for SHARP as well, even from some scientists at Birmingham. They conclude that the SHARP test is fundamentally flawed because it utilizes a faulty model for accident mechanics, leading to an up to 300% higher chance of a deadly injury in the SHARP model compared to reality. Since they then award their stars on the basis of how many riders would die with that helmet if all riders wore it, that makes their star rating somewhat unreliable. (copied lines - I will provide a reference to that and the reply from SHARP below)

Also, you might be surprised only a few big helmet names like Arai and Shoei have less of the SHARP ratings, while cheaper helmets like MT get that rating, even a 5 star like in the case of MT revenge, while those Arai and Shoei shells pass the SNELL test most of the times.
I am not saying MT is bad, no ! But I just mean that SHARP should not be your #1 criterion for picking a helmet.
MT is a good choice. But the way you say no Shoei, no AGV, no LS2, no SOL, no SMK in the video, I found you exaggerating the SHARP rating.
I trust the ratings from German magazine Motorrad, they have the most thorough and quality testing perimeters. They even measure Head injury criterion (HIC) and post it.

Motorrad magazine guys actually get helmets from the manufacturers for testing, then exchange those helmets at a random store for the same helmet to prevent the manufacturer giving them specially prepped helmets. They then test those helmets in a laboratory in a specially designed test which is stricter than ECE and includes an impact on a guardrail post shaped anvil for realism.

Also the SHARP testers have a different view of accident impact than some well respected helmet makers. SHARP feels that certain points of the helmet take the initial impact (and therefore need to be stronger) than Arai and Shoei do. As a result they don't perform as well as some other helmet manufacturers.

While I agree that repeatable tests are important, I disagree that any testing is a good thing. If SHARP are giving a helmet 5 stars based on potentially flawed testing it could lead to someone buying the incorrect piece of safety equipment under the illusion that they are buying the safest thing on the market.

Just one further point to add about SHARP. I'm pretty sure that due to the exact nature of the test it is pretty easy to 'cheat' the system. If you know that they are going to be hitting a very specific point of a helmet with a certain force, you can engineer that exact point to give a good result. This does not create a safer helmet as the odds of that specific point being hit in an impact must be pretty small, but it does result in a good score.

SHARP is a step in the correct direction, as it's intentions are honourable. However, the results are too easy to cheat, and are there are still too many questions about the methods used, for them to be taken as the be all and end all in helmet testing.

I will post a picture of HJC helmet with Motorrad TÜV sticker on it, for you to see how it looks.
Also think it this way, many people would think that a 1 star SHARP rated helmet will get them killed while a 5 star SHARP rated helmet will save them. Which is fundamentally untrue.
Again, SHARP rating is good to have, but not having one doesn't make your helmet unsafe or unreliable at all until it has the ECE rating. Even SNELL again has it's part of flaws and criticism. Remember SHARP tests the helmets which already passed the ECE rating. And also, the SHARP rating doesn't consider the comfort and wind noise, which are important parameters too.
Just take the scores with a pinch of salt - do not trust them explicitly.


The obvious catch is - you never know what kind of accident you will have, if any. So, the thing to do is, get a full-face helmet that is rated by a legit organization, made by a well-known brand, and that FITS YOU PROPERLY. The fact that you're wearing a helmet is the most important part.

You can read more about SHARP laboratory test procedures here - https://sharp.dft.gov.uk/wp-content/...procedures.pdf


The full protocol here - https://sharp.dft.gov.uk/wp-content/...nal-Report.pdf

Critical Evaluation of SHARP ratings - (Birmingham University) - http://www.birmingham.ac.uk/Document...sweb600150.pdf

Reply of SHARP to Birmingham scientist - https://sharp.dft.gov.uk/wp-content/...y-NJ-Mills.pdf

SNELL 2015 pdf - http://www.smf.org/standards/m/2015/M2015FinalFinal.pdf

[MidnightEvil Parth]

Re: Universal : Riding Gear Thread

Also I corrected my reply there from 'SHARP rating doesn't matter at all' to 'SHARP rating doesn't matter much'.
The former one looks a little misleading, I agree.

[MotoBlizzard]

Re: Universal : Riding Gear Thread

Also I corrected my reply there from 'SHARP rating doesn't matter at all' to 'SHARP rating doesn't matter much'.
The former one looks a little misleading, I agree.

You did not have to make such a long post. I simply asked you why you said "SHARP rating doesnt matter." Just because Birmingham university raised a concern against SHARP doesnt mean it completely invalidates SHARP's claims and results.

I am very well aware of all the references you have made and I agree that SHARP in itself should not be considered as a determining factor for purchasing a lid. The stars obviously dont provide any quantitative analysis. SHARP's tests are based on COST 327 accident reports which I find to be good enough as a basis for the tests. I would rather put my trust in helmets tested against parameters set according to the accident analysis rather than helmets tested against assumptions that a helmet could be impacted in so and so manner. Ultimately theres no best certification, it comes down to preference.

But IMO, SHARP is a good supplementary factor for Regulation 22.

And also let me clarify something about the PSA. Its titled "Best Budget helmet" for a reason. The video is targeted towards Indians that go for sub-par ISI certified helmets. I also did say that AGV and Shoei were a bit of stretch as in it was a joke. But I stand by my point when I mentioned SMK, SOL and LS2.

I appreciate you providing the reference links. All riders should take some time and read through all teh relevant data but in practicality its not possible.

Not gonna talk anything about SNELL, their standards are pretty hardcore and their certified helmets are priced pretty hardcore as well, not something that an average rider needs.

I believe the helmet below is what you wanted to show?

[MidnightEvil Parth]

Re: Universal : Riding Gear Thread

No the helmet below is not I wanted to show. I was just going to show a friend's helmet.

And sorry if the post felt long, I just tried to make it precise.
I never said Birmingham claims completely invalidate SHARP, infact I never said SHARP is completely invalid in my long post. I just said that these ratings are to be taken with a pinch of salt, they do not mean everything.
And again, to each his own. I won't pick a lid solely for a 4 star Sharp rating. And yes, it comes down to preference, ECE is the important one here.
And about the video, I agree about sub-par ISI certified helmets, but the point about throwing mud on SMK, SOL and LS2 is not a great idea imo. I completely trust those brands along with MT.
There are criticisms for SNELL as well, no doubt. And that could not be taken as the single important test either.

Again, I would stay on my point that SMK / MT / SOL / LS2 are all great lids, and completely bashing other lids just for a SHARP rating is wrong.
All these shells have passed ECE and have the same credibility.