Lessons from the track: Performance braking : How to setup and brake effectively

[Honda_CBF]

^^ oh yes, i missed stating it earlier (thinking every one knows about it) do hang off at corners.
It provides more grip at wheels to act with, lowers center of gravity, better weight shifting (left or right).

[hgps]

whenever i have to brake i apply rear + front brakes [30:70 ratio] and disengage clutch + reduce throttle to idle [downshifting at the same time if i have to stop/ride at slow speed] .sometimes i even use engine braking.

is this the correct method ?? my friends say engine braking is harmful and i should never disengage clutch when braking

i am still n00b so i don't know correct braking method

[Honda_CBF]

whenever i have to brake i apply rear + front brakes [30:70 ratio] and engage clutch + reduce throttle to idle [downshifting at the same time if i have to stop/ride at slow speed] .sometimes i even use engine braking.

is this the correct method ?? my friends say engine braking is harmful and i should never disengage clutch when braking

i am still n00b so i don't know correct braking method

your braking is quit ok. Just dont disengage (press) clutch, unless you are downshifting.
includeing engine braking you are going to slow down much quicker and in controlled fashion.
And No, engine braking is not harmful if your engine and related parts are ok.
Just one thing to consider, dont let your bike rev beyond (or even near) redline. It can cause damage.
Cheers.
EDIT: while downshifting use 'rev-matching' and there won't be any JERKS when you engage (release) clutch after downshifting, and hence more control over bike and its smooth weight transfer and less chance of rear wheel locking.

[shahbaz63]

I've always believe on my Front brakes, but whenever i guide same to anybody out there (friends & colleagues) they call it Risky & they think am idiot...

where as i saw few of my friends who never touch Front lever... Awareness missing.

[Honda_CBF]

Yup mate awareness is missing and only aware ones can make biking (& also motoring) a better thing and roads a better place. And that's what xbhp & its members are doing.
Just ask 'rear brake users' that, why the hell front brakes are powerful and bigger than rear on any vehicles (except trucks, buses and the likes)

[Divya Sharan]

Yup mate awareness is missing and only aware ones can make biking (& also motoring) a better thing and roads a better place. And that's what xbhp & its members are doing.
Just ask 'rear brake users' that, why the hell front brakes are powerful and bigger than rear on any vehicles (except trucks, buses and the likes)

You're right about the missing awareness thing.

But, I don't think many people (normal juntaa) have come to terms with correct techniques of riding even after XBHP having celebrated 10+ years.
Who's at failure?

Not XBHP certainly, but the people!

I'm not talking about teaching people in metros/villages. People in villages would make a mockery of you whereas the metro people will listen to you and forget it the next moment.

Let me quote an example:- (my example)
1. I'm from Bokaro Steel City (Jharkhand). Lived there for 18 years. Its neither a metro nor a village. Its a well developed establishment. But I couldn't convince my dad into using front brakes. Though he's a good rider, 90% of the times, he uses rear brakes!
2. I work in a metro. I tried convincing my associates about the front brake thing. Failure.
3. Folk from my village have developed a notion of me being a racer after seeing one of my FB pics.

Who's at loss? Me. Nope! But, I wish I teach atleast one soul what is right for tarmac.

[Honda_CBF]

^^ yes mate I agree with your points. I've also got mixed results while (trying to) teach riders of various places (from very internal villages of Jharkhand which-can't-be-found-on-maps to medium-sized-city like Jamshedpur). And teaching elder ones is the most difficult thing. Best & positive results are from similar aged groups. My 80% class mates use both/front brakes, and few of them are girls too.
Best way to teach, is to give live demo (works best for me)
but dont lose hope, and dont pass the buck. We can definitely make the road a better place to ride/drive. Though I know neither xbhp nor its members are at fault.
OT:
that racer boy comment was funny & happened with me too reason being, I ride a semi-fair'd bike. No need to talk about CC's, BHP etc.. Lol I say

[2wice]

I'm not sure where to post this as this has a little of everything but since this thread seems the closest, ill post it here.

I’ve got a bunch of questions mainly based on what I’ve read here or the other threads. Please note that ALL these questions are based on riding in the STREET.

Covering the front brake while riding: Now it may seem like a good idea because it saves that precious fraction of a second while panic braking. But the thing is when an obstacle suddenly appears the tendency is to tense up and ,like a hand-jerk reaction, instantly close the fingers already on the brake lever thus possibly locking the wheel. But if the fingers are not already on the brake when seeing the obstacle, it’ll take about a fraction of a second to move the fingers onto the brakes by which time we would have already chopped the throttle thus allowing just a little weight transfer to the front before we start braking, maybe helping to lower the chances of locking the wheel and also helping to avoid that impulsive brake-jerk-grab. So what would you'll recommend?

Braking in stages: Read about the 4 stages of braking and my question is how do you transistion between the stages? Is it supposed to be done in one smooth continuous motion or is supposed to be a little umm.. stagey? I know this may seem like a stupid question (the smooth braking, duh!!) but I feel like the idea of the staged braking is to give the front tyre time to create a good contact patch and so I feel like I need to dwell on each stage for a tiny bit.
Positioning of feet on the pegs: So the recommended instruction while taking a corner is to position yourself with the balls of your feet on the pegs. Just wanted to know how exactly namely the position of the heels. Do you position your feet on the pegs so that it looks like you’re standing on tip toes (the heels pointing upward) or do you postion the heels so that they are somewhat parallel to the ground.

Weight on the wrists: Well people recommend that you keep the weight on the wrists to a minimum by using your back and your thighs to grab the tank so that you can steer and modulate the controls easily. Just wanted to know if during the entire process of taking a corner (entry-corner-exit) is there a particular stage when it is okay to load up the wrists a bit.

Also It would help a lot if someone would mention the order in which we could practise the different aspects of cornering which include body positioning etc so that by the time we move to the next aspect, the current technique will already come naturally to us. This request is because when I tried to practise taking corners today I was concentrating so much on braking properly, body positioning etc that I almost forgot to take the corner itself. And by the time the ride was over my head felt like it was ready to explode. So a request to all those people who can help and those who have attended track schools, please enlighten us and bestow upon us thy wisdom.

[The Monk]

Cover the front brake with only one or two fingers. And when you have the throttle in hand, the brake lever will be held by the tips of your fingers. As you panic brake, to squeeze the brake lever, you will have to roll off the throttle or else you will not be able to brake adequately. So impulsive brake-jerk-grab will not happen by covering the brake.No weight on wrists.

Also It would help a lot if someone would mention the order in which we could practise the different aspects of cornering which include body positioning etc so that by the time we move to the next aspect, the current technique will already come naturally to us. This request is because when I tried to practise taking corners today I was concentrating so much on braking properly, body positioning etc that I almost forgot to take the corner itself. And by the time the ride was over my head felt like it was ready to explode. So a request to all those people who can help and those who have attended track schools, please enlighten us and bestow upon us thy wisdom.
If you cannot find a training school, ride with experienced riders, watch and learn, and ask them to spot your mistakes. Trying to learn cornering of a computer screen is a little difficult! Get Twist of the Wrist and Streetsmart, can be a little helpful.

Replies in bold from a tourer and not a track guy!!

[Divya Sharan]

I'm not sure where to post this as this has a little of everything but since this thread seems the closest, ill post it here.

I’ve got a bunch of questions mainly based on what I’ve read here or the other threads. Please note that ALL these questions are based on riding in the STREET.

You should use only 2 fingers for the brake lever. Use the remaining fingers for the throttle.

Now assume you spot a dog 50 mts away while you're doing 80. You panic brake, but since you've only 2 fingers on the brake lever, coupled with the fact that you'd not have rolled off the throttle completely in that small time span, you'd be braking with less than 50% efficiency. Even if you lock the wheel at lower speeds, you can gain traction immediately by leaving the brake lever free.
Just ensure that you're not leaned over when braking hard. (or braking at all!) Straighten up, complete the braking maneuver and bend again. Proper gearshifts are as important.

Now, pumping the brakes. Its a waste IMO. I know it does give a false impression of providing traction under the pumping action, but its not so. Also, in a panic situation where I may crash in 5 sec, if I pump for 2 sec, how'll I stop/shed speed in the first place?

Positioning - Body, wrists, feet. (differs for tours and track)

For track use:-
1. Balls of the feet must be on the foot pegs. (That means 80% of the feet stays behind the pegs)
2. Tuck in. Knees closed on the tank sides, body crouched, chest on tank and arms pulled in. This would put absolutely ZERO pressure on wrists!
3. For leaning, half bum off seat, feet re-positioned on pegs - instead of the balls of the feet, its the heel that rests on the pegs now. (80% of the feet is now in front of the pegs.)
4. Open up the thighs, and ensure your view is not obstructed by the RVMs.
P.S - Here, body positioning is important - keep the bike as straight as possible and its the rider who leans off from the bike. Usually people go the other way round.
5. Finally, position your feet in line with the corner while you constantly look for the apex. Voila, you'd have a knee down by this time. Accelerate out of the corner.

For tourers:-
1. Sit as straight as possible.
2. Keep the middle part of the feet on the pegs. This will prevent slipping in case you decide to stand on the pegs in bad roads.
3. Don't try race track maneuvers on public roads. If you want to lean, simply open up the thighs and lean a wee bit with the bike in the same angle. (bike and biker lean together at same angles)
4. Look for the apex and accelerate out of the corner. (P.S - Peripheral view is important here)

[2wice]

@Thw Monk and Divya Sharan
Thanks both for your help and yes, i'm not going to try track maneuvers or keep trying to get my knee down on public roads. I just wanted to know the ideal way and body setup for good and safe cornering.

3. For leaning, half bum off seat, feet re-positioned on pegs - instead of the balls of the feet, its the heel that rests on the pegs now. (80% of the feet is now in front of the pegs.)

About the resting the heels on the pegs while leaning, Wouldn't it increase the chances of scraping the inner foot (for example the right foot while taking a right handed corner) on the road while leaning because you're also opening up the thigh of the inner leg and so the tendency of the foot would also be to point in a similar direction? This would be avoided by keeping the toes on the pegs throughout the turn and that is what i have been following. I've visited a few forums based on this and most people are of the opinion of keeping the balls of the feet of the inner foot on the peg throughout the turn. But for the OUTER foot the heel can be on the footpeg. Is this what you meant? Could you or the other members clarify?

[sbhas2k]

Re: Lessons from the track: Performance braking : How to setup and brake effectively

Very informative. Can we have more details w.r.t bike safety precautions n how to handle during rainy days?

Also I have skid from my bike already a few times, any suggestions mostly welcome on this front as well

Sent from my HTC Desire SV using Tapatalk 2

[Honda_CBF]

2wice, I must say you have done your homework. that too rather well. balls should rest on the pegs, all the times, of course unless one is operating rear brake of gears, but then again, it should not be done while cornering. Also, balls on pegs help a rider to shift his/her weight more precisely and swiftly. whereas hasty movements when on heels, can make them slip. @ Divya, I dont agree with this heel on pegs part.And there one more thing, counter steering :when taking a left hand corner, shift weight to left & turn your handle bar to "right" slightly, just by few degrees not much. turning in will become tighter and bike will lean further. If you see some obstacle and feel like applying brakes then instead of turning right, turn the handle bar to left. this will straighten up the bike and then you can brake with max force.Regarding braking, keep the front brake lever covered with 1 or 2 finger(s) (whatever you are comfortable with) when you see obstacle, and feel like grabbing the hand full of brake, just be calm.. at first apply only 50% or so of braking force, after some moment (half a second or so) start increasing the brake force in steady & linear fashion.. I guess this is what you refering with "stepped braking". Actually its called setup & grab technique. First one set ups the grip levels.. then grabs the brake.@sbhas2k, on rainy or slippery conditions, dont lean your bike much, but hang off of bike more. and be gentle with throttle, brakes, gear changes, dont make huge changes. be constant and steady. and of course keep speeds lower than usual. P.S. I'm not a racer either. just an enthusiastic biker

[incipient]

About the resting the heels on the pegs while leaning, Wouldn't it increase the chances of scraping the inner foot (for example the right foot while taking a right handed corner) on the road while leaning because you're also opening up the thigh of the inner leg and so the tendency of the foot would also be to point in a similar direction? This would be avoided by keeping the toes on the pegs throughout the turn and that is what i have been following. I've visited a few forums based on this and most people are of the opinion of keeping the balls of the feet of the inner foot on the peg throughout the turn. But for the OUTER foot the heel can be on the footpeg. Is this what you meant? Could you or the other members clarify?

I think the balls of the feet on the pegs has two purposes: safety and that it acts like a better shock absorber.
while (hard) cornering you certainly want the balls of the inside foot to be on the pegs - again safer, because otherwise want your toes might make contact with the ground.
when cornering, keeping the outside foot with heal on the peg gives better support than the 'balls of feet on the peg' style. with the outside leg heel on the peg and the knee locked onto the tank your body doesn't need any other support you can practically let go of the bars while in a corner with proper body position. this is what the motogp gods do.
yes, this requires constant moving around of the feet but you get used to it.

[incipient]

Covering the front brake while riding: Now it may seem like a good idea because it saves that precious fraction of a second while panic braking. But the thing is when an obstacle suddenly appears the tendency is to tense up and ,like a hand-jerk reaction, instantly close the fingers already on the brake lever thus possibly locking the wheel.

Covering the brake lever is a must IMO during street riding. the bike is travelling the fastest during those early fractions of a second which that will save. getting the brakes on early is important to reduce the stopping distance (but at the same time we can't grab the lever because that will unsettle the suspension, reduce fork travel and the front can lock up).

There is something even more important and thats vision. you have always got to be mentally prepared and aware of the riding environment, panic braking should happen very rarely (if at all) otherwise you are riding beyond your limit.