R15 with eyes closed

P220 with eyes closed

i will give u small examples as to how small things hv made it cheaper actually if we see fi was arnd 87 and new is arnd 72-75 (dont know exact) .. neways .. wat they have removed is the injection system ..injecion system is not built by bajaj so it costs them hefty ... arnd 8-9 per system .. so if we remove it ..still there is a difference of 7-8 k .. if we put the costs of a new carb it hardly costs them nething .... moreover I am not very sure if they have made a better clutch box for the new pulsar ...
now ... as for cost cut .. the paint job is poor .. really as far as i hav seen in service station new pulsars that come hv this poor feel and a sense that this paint job will get removed as it ha started sweeling in some (I understand it might be exception but i hv seen many )... neways more over sum small cost cutter bajaj have used are ... the indicator switches etc like hav all been replaced with cheaper stuff .. moreover ... the brake pads for 220 have been degraded ... I dont knw how but this was told by the mechanic ... and hav been experienced by me too .. i hv to change my rear brake pads every 4-5k kms(I agree I use them heavily for skidding etc )... but then too earlier brakes lasted 8-9k kms ... now i get those older pads altough 30 rs costly but they hav lasted long enough for me .

so bajaj has obviousy decreased the quality to make the 220 accesible to broader segment of the middle class indian society and they are right in doing so as a business point of view ... but then again ... yamaha always is the best in quality .. :P

rest .. I would say drive both the bikes from ur frnds ... since a 5-6k kms ridden engine is more responsive .. then decide ..

Well about pads I agree, they are poor.

However the clutch is new. It comes as a sealed unit from the company that makes clutch parts for hero honda and honda India (SRY, dont remember the name).

I think it was FCC Rico

@lavs..ur assumptions are pretty sad and silly. Your sentences were kiddish.

There are many ways of reducing the cost of a product other than simply reducing the quality..!
Bajaj sells lakhs of vehicles per month(all models including Pulsars) and bajaj might be sharing some of the parts with other models as well and hence cost can be cut by mass production.

I am not saying against the R15, but you should understand that R15 infact even other Yamaha Models like FZ are expensive not simply because they are of high technology or quality..but bcoz of the TAXES..! Most of the parts of R15 are imported from other countries which attract heavy import duty and other kind of taxes.

your post is immature...the fuel injection costs 15k...220 is 70k (ESP) and fi is (something 85 or 87k ESP)...the gear box is from FCC RICO same as hondas....the rear brake pads depends on user ability...i dint change mine till now and its 8k on odo and they are working perfectly and am satisfied...dont tell me about yamaha quality...i had fz for a year and i chucked it coz i couldnt bear it...its rims and body paint and the structure of fibre parts is pathetic..and parts are expensive too...the only good thing about it is its handling..awesome...r15 rims are bad for Indian roads too..its damn good for tracks but a headache to drive in city..atleast for me..

@ TS

test ride and decide according to your need...power and straight line performance and city ride + touring-p220

awesome cornering,track tool,long engine life-r15

avoid posting in sms lingo......

your post seems too kiddish dude ... state facts which are concrete atleast ....and none of the pulsar 220 owner has raised the question against the bad quality of paint job in ownership experience .... in fact IMO its a very good paint job.

there is no bike which do not have small niggles here and there .... whether it be an r15 , zma or a 220. They both are flagship models of their respective brands so they are equipped with the best technology the company has.

try to respect every bike dude .... just do not post for the sake of posting .....

TS- you cant go wrong with any one of them .... if you want sheer power + looks then its a 220 for you ....
and if your looking for good handling + looks go for an r15.

TD both and keep us informed....


all the best .
cheero

there is no technology really in p220 .... really ... no technology ... just the fact that they have increased the bore size and made a new engine 220cc doesnt make that a new technology ... all they have focussed is on a gud look and they have succeeded in it ...
the parts are not that gud as they should be in a high end bike(altough we dont assume it to be high end but for indian respect we will).....

Really ..........No techonogy........actually it is pulled by two donkeys attached to the legguard.
Alright already, we all including the thread starter get it. You don't like the 220 dtsi. Understood. Let the guy decide for himself. You have made your point clear that you don't like the bike.

For the record, I own a 220 dtsi, as far as now I haven't seen any thing wrong with the paint job. Neither have any other owners on X bhp. I think the people who are riding the bike can provide a better insight. Providing a suggestion is one thing and starting a brand war is another.

As far as parts quality goes, The engine is new and not a rebored version of the 180 or 150. Look the specs if you want to. It is an evolving Platform.

Even Yamaha is repacking an existing street bike and calling it a tourer.

Look, indiscriminate ripping on a particular bike/brand isn't really appreciated here. If you have something concrete to say, please do so with appropriate backing.

As far as technology goes:
Yes, both bikes are from completely different lines of technology, but to claim that just because the P220 uses a carb for it's fueling and is air cooled and thus it has no technology, simply means you haven't understood much about engines.

Just remember this, carbs have been around for a long, long time. They are the result of many years of research and tuning by a lot of people. They are robust, fuel efficient and cheap all at the same time. FI is a computer based technology and as such potentially more vulnerable to issues, also it's quite a bit more expensive. The fact that it can have better FE is easily offset by the extra money you spend to get it.

For example, 220FI vs 220 carb. The Fi costs a good Rs13000 more than the carb version. That's 10000 kilometers of driving. Not to mention that the carbed one gives the same or better FE, thus you will never recover the difference in price, no matter how much you ride. Someone else can do the math for ZMA vs ZMR, it'll tell you that you'll have to drive a lot of kilometers to make up for the price difference just from fuel efficiency.

Now that we have that behind us:
R15, great for tracks, cornering freaks and tech addicts. Also good for streets.
P220, great for streets, power addicts and smoking R15s on straight runs. (Pun intended)

And as usual, thread starter, TEST RIDE the bikes and then decide. All of mumbling about this and that with regard to these bikes is worth nothing compared to getting a good test ride.

@thread starter,
I dont know what the above discussion holds for you, but I would suggest that if your requirements are met by R15 which offers mini sports bike ride experience then you've got to visit Yamaha or else the fastest street bike currently in india is the 220dtsi.

there are positives and negatives in everything...you maynot like something in Bajaj which others might love it...similarly for Yamaha.

in their own context both are good. you can not compare them in every characteristic because they are built for different purposes. You cant expect an elephant to do a lions job. simply because he's not made for it

P220 Developed with the help of KTM ?

Any of you guys have any idea about this
and what is this thing about developing Bajaj bikes with water cooled engine??

This is why I say don't see too much of you tube P220 Developed with the help of KTM ?
what is this thing about developing Bajaj bikes with water cooled engine?
This means that Bajaj is planing to launch its water cooled bikes in future P-220 is not a water/liquid cool bike its a oil cool bike and bajaj is planing to sell it bikes in Europe too so they can't sell there pony bikes everywhere they will develop a bike with KTM which is known brand in Europe.

i personally have been riding 220 since last 2-2.5 years. owned an Fi for 2 years and now own a carb 220 and yes, there were a lot of problems with the FI but this carb 220 is damn gud and i havent faced much of problem with it.

thats the best suggestion tD both and decide, pros and cons, you know very well by now for both

Seems ur 220 quite did not meet your expectations so your dissatisfaction is pretty much obvious