The Official Pune Offline Meet(G2G) Thread

[trustvishwas]

Guys, A General Technical Question -
While riding, when the throttle is in the closed position, what should be the position of the clutch?
1. When the clutch is pressed, the rpm is 1.5 K - 2 K.
2. When the clutch is not pressed, the rpm is where you close the throttle & then slowly comes down.
So which of the two ways is better? Economical?
Please don't consider engine braking!

Technically, the clutch should be pressed only while changing gears and not at any other time.

[Eshan-P180]

Xbhp Weekly G2G

Date & Day 4-7-2012,Wednesday

Venue-Grubshup - Law College Road.

Time-8pm

[shrinathrao]

Does any one of you guys using any solution for punctures in their tubeless tyres, Slime creates lumps so avoiding it any other solution which are good ?

[Galactus.prime]

For Fi Engines, If you are coasting in gear without the use of clutch, the fuel stops completely, so your vehicle is moving without using any petrol i.e. infinite kmpl instantaneous FE for the time the throttle was closed.

#with throttle closed the intake valve is shutoff or the FI shuts off the fuel?
#AFAIK since valve opens and closes due to piston movements does it only take air inside?
#what happens if I open the throttle in next second?
#will the piston and sleeve take the inertia of the rich mixture (since the fuel is stopped starting the engine will need rich mixture)?
#with no fuel engine will run on momentum, with throttle opened next time will lead to lateral forces undistributed on cranck bearings
is it so?

If however you press the clutch, some fuel is used for the engine to continue idling. You also lose engine braking and use brakes more, heat up your discs more, use up your brake pads more.
#is there any mechanism which supplies petrol to engine when clutch is deepressed?
#AFAIK engine braking is when u downshift or there is engine brake installed on a bike correct me if i am wrong again it varies according to number of cylinders?

So, Option #2 will be the correct way to do it since it is both better and more economical.
#here i guess economy will decrease with use of clutch as the power(read energy) generated by engine is transferred to heat due to clutch plate friction correct me if i am wrong? also the gradual reduction of petrol supply to engine is uninterrupted when we deepress the clutch

Hello sir
I have a query with respect to your above statements since i am a noob. pl refer my questions in bold above.

[askyashu]

Here is the Map (Dont know where you would start from). Also, you can get LS2 from other shops but they would quote more. & If you are going on KTM Duke, I would advise to take someone with you who would guard the bike. In case there is no one to company you, make sure you park your bike in front of the shop.
He would offer LS2, Cross, Studds (May be more like vega but not sure).
The default visor will be silver tinted. If you ride at night also, its advisable to exchange it with clear visor.
No there wont be any problem to ride without a helmet. But for your safety, its better to get helmet ASAP.

Thank You so much for the link sir..
Youre right now actually scraing me.. Would there be a problem in that area if i take my bike..??
I have completely no idea of these helmets and the prices, so could you please guide me which one among these would be good enough..??
The only thing i want is a full face helmet..
and also is that silver tinted visor not recommended..??
I think that only helps us in the night from the oncoming vehicle's high beam right..??
Thank You

[antz.bin]

Hello sir
I have a query with respect to your above statements since i am a noob. pl refer my questions in bold above.

First of all, No Sir's please

Coming to the point

1. with throttle closed the intake valve is shutoff or the FI shuts off the fuel?
2. AFAIK since valve opens and closes due to piston movements does it only take air inside?
3.what happens if I open the throttle in next second?
4. will the piston and sleeve take the inertia of the rich mixture (since the fuel is stopped starting the engine will need rich mixture)?
5. with no fuel engine will run on momentum, with throttle opened next time will lead to lateral forces undistributed on crank bearings
is it so?

A1. With throttle closed, neither the intake valve gets closed nor the FI shuts off. The Injector stops spraying fuel into the 'Intake Manifold'.

A2. Valves open and close due to rotation of the crank caused due to reciprocating motion of the piston. This Crank rotates the (2 in case of Duke) Cam Shaft(s) using chain/belt (also known as timing chain/belt). As we can see, there is no connection here between the injector (which is independently controlled by ECU) and everything else.

A3. If you open throttle the next second, the injector sprays fuel into the intake manifold and the same gets sucked into the cylinder in the next 'intake stroke'.

A4. Why would the mixture become rich? There is an injector and an ECU for this precise purpose, so that you get optimum mixture, all the time. And anyways, just the fuel was stopped, the engine was still running, something similar happens when you hit reserve on a carb'd bike. On switching to reserve, the fuel starts and if the bike is still in motion, the bike restarts on its own as long as it is in gear.

A5. Could you please rephrase your question? I did not get that one. But for any further questions, the following video should help

electronic fuel injection sytem works.flv - YouTube

6. is there any mechanism which supplies petrol to engine when clutch is deepressed?
7. AFAIK engine braking is when u downshift or there is engine brake installed on a bike correct me if i am wrong again it varies according to number of cylinders?
8. here i guess economy will decrease with use of clutch as the power(read energy) generated by engine is transferred to heat due to clutch plate friction correct me if i am wrong? also the gradual reduction of petrol supply to engine is uninterrupted when we deepress the clutch

A6. Yes, The ECU constantly monitors the RPM of the engine, if it drops below idling(due to use of clutch), it supplies it fuel to continue idling.

A7. As you already said, when there is no throttle, the engine runs on its on momentum. But since there are some losses happening continuously due to friction between various components, the momentum of the bike is reduced faster than it would if it was rolling in neutral with engine off. This increased deceleration is also known as engine braking. There are several factors contributing to engine braking, and yes, no. of cylinders is one of them.

A8. Absolutely correct.

[kaushik60]

Hey guys,
Does anyone know a dealer for duckback raincoats towards North Pune/Pimpri-Chinchwad?I have found one in Hadapsar, but I dont want to go all the way there through the traffic
I need to get one ASAP. Looking for some help!
cheers!

[trustvishwas]

also is that silver tinted visor not recommended..??
I think that only helps us in the night from the oncoming vehicle's high beam right..??

Tinted visors are not recommended because you would not be able to ride in dark with it. It will reduce your vision and will not actually help you in oncoming vehicles' high beam. With a clear visor, you have an option of using sunglasses in sunny time.

First of all, No Sir's please

No Sir's please . . . . antz uncle would do

[Eshan-P180]

Tinted visors are not recommended because you would not be able to ride in dark with it. It will reduce your vision and will not actually help you in oncoming vehicles' high beam. With a clear visor, you have an option of using sunglasses in sunny time.



No Sir's please . . . . antz uncle would do

Yes uncle... :P

[antz.bin]

Tinted visors are not recommended because you would not be able to ride in dark with it. It will reduce your vision and will not actually help you in oncoming vehicles' high beam. With a clear visor, you have an option of using sunglasses in sunny time.



No Sir's please . . . . antz uncle would do

Thank you Uncle

[askyashu]

Tinted visors are not recommended because you would not be able to ride in dark with it. It will reduce your vision and will not actually help you in oncoming vehicles' high beam. With a clear visor, you have an option of using sunglasses in sunny time.

Ohkk..
Thank You for your response sir..
I would also like to know how much budget should i keep in mind for the helmet and gloves only as of now.. Rest ill be taking after some time..
And also i am looking forward to join the weekly get togethers after a week or two, so how should i contact you guys..
Thank You..

[Galactus.prime]

First of all, No Sir's please

Coming to the point



A1. With throttle closed, neither the intake valve gets closed nor the FI shuts off. The Injector stops spraying fuel into the 'Intake Manifold'.

A2. Valves open and close due to rotation of the crank caused due to reciprocating motion of the piston. This Crank rotates the (2 in case of Duke) Cam Shaft(s) using chain/belt (also known as timing chain/belt). As we can see, there is no connection here between the injector (which is independently controlled by ECU) and everything else.

A3. If you open throttle the next second, the injector sprays fuel into the intake manifold and the same gets sucked into the cylinder in the next 'intake stroke'.

A4. Why would the mixture become rich? There is an injector and an ECU for this precise purpose, so that you get optimum mixture, all the time. And anyways, just the fuel was stopped, the engine was still running, something similar happens when you hit reserve on a carb'd bike. On switching to reserve, the fuel starts and if the bike is still in motion, the bike restarts on its own as long as it is in gear.

A5. Could you please rephrase your question? I did not get that one. But for any further questions, the following video should help

electronic fuel injection sytem works.flv - YouTube


A6. Yes, The ECU constantly monitors the RPM of the engine, if it drops below idling(due to use of clutch), it supplies it fuel to continue idling.

A7. As you already said, when there is no throttle, the engine runs on its on momentum. But since there are some losses happening continuously due to friction between various components, the momentum of the bike is reduced faster than it would if it was rolling in neutral with engine off. This increased deceleration is also known as engine braking. There are several factors contributing to engine braking, and yes, no. of cylinders is one of them.

A8. Absolutely correct.

Reply to your answers in respective order:-

1) an injector controoled by an ECU never stops supplying petrol when engine is running hence they say Idling speed (even in idling engine runs on petrol).
2)agree.
3)agree
4)as you know the piston reciprocates on impulse created by the explosion if in the case you had mentioned of fuel cut off to engine due to closed throttle the piston will require more impluse to restart at the RPM higher than the idling RPM of engine hence rich mixture.
My point is:- ECU signals the injector to run lean mixture when there is no throttle input hence these OEM are so adamant on Al diecast engines ask any thumper. Air fuel ratio is altered that is what i meant. its a huge ask for an engine to shut off fuel and run on momentum considering the throttle inputs by a rider in traffic or on highways everytime the throttle is rolled off the injector wont stop. now this has an exception only when we hit revv limiter.
5) we will discuss when we meet.
6)when we start the engine it has idling RPM when you deepress the clutch how can it go below Idling for eg:- if we stop at traffic signal and deepress the clutch without any throttle inputs (ofcourse the bike should be in gear) the lowest it will go is its idling speed hence idle. or there must be some serious problem with engine.
7)yes as we cant achieve perpetual motion in any device hence it slows down but takes lot of time to slow down from higher speeds on a perfectly flat tarmac without any event of traffic or throttle input. IC engines run only on 20% thermal efficiency rest is lost in conduction convection and radiation and when we couple it with transmission losses it slows down but never shuts off the fuel supply.
have you searched jake brake or engine brakes it been manditory now for all HCV/MCV to have one.also i dont remember the bike maybe VFR or CBR1000R the naked one has a butterfly valve on exhaust outlet. to create backpressure on piston.

[mahesh.2910]

Ohkk..
I would also like to know how much budget should i keep in mind for the helmet and gloves only as of now.. Rest ill be taking after some time..

Good gloves should set you back by Rs 1500 and a good helmet could cost you anywhere between Rs 3000 to Rs 5000 depending on what you are looking for.
Obviously you can get costlier gloves and a helmet - what I have given you is rough estimate.


Cheers.

[antz.bin]

Reply to your answers in respective order:-

1) an injector controoled by an ECU never stops supplying petrol when engine is running hence they say Idling speed (even in idling engine runs on petrol).
2)agree.
3)agree
4)as you know the piston reciprocates on impulse created by the explosion if in the case you had mentioned of fuel cut off to engine due to closed throttle the piston will require more impluse to restart at the RPM higher than the idling RPM of engine hence rich mixture.
My point is:- ECU signals the injector to run lean mixture when there is no throttle input hence these OEM are so adamant on Al diecast engines ask any thumper. Air fuel ratio is altered that is what i meant. its a huge ask for an engine to shut off fuel and run on momentum considering the throttle inputs by a rider in traffic or on highways everytime the throttle is rolled off the injector wont stop. now this has an exception only when we hit revv limiter.
5) we will discuss when we meet.
6)when we start the engine it has idling RPM when you deepress the clutch how can it go below Idling for eg:- if we stop at traffic signal and deepress the clutch without any throttle inputs (ofcourse the bike should be in gear) the lowest it will go is its idling speed hence idle. or there must be some serious problem with engine.
7)yes as we cant achieve perpetual motion in any device hence it slows down but takes lot of time to slow down from higher speeds on a perfectly flat tarmac without any event of traffic or throttle input. IC engines run only on 20% thermal efficiency rest is lost in conduction convection and radiation and when we couple it with transmission losses it slows down but never shuts off the fuel supply.
have you searched jake brake or engine brakes it been manditory now for all HCV/MCV to have one.also i dont remember the bike maybe VFR or CBR1000R the naked one has a butterfly valve on exhaust outlet. to create backpressure on piston.

And I said all of this, only in newbie friendly language .
1. and 4. That bit is debatable. I was quoting Jeremy Clarkson from Top Gear
6. By below idling, I meant momentarily (or lim -> in calculus lingo). Some ECUs+injector+fuel pump combos are not fast enough to react to this and let the engine stall instead. (Google for Ford Figo Stalling issues)
7. Jake brakes are used on Diesels. This is a bike forum. No diesel bikes currently on sale in India.
The rest(apart from fuel shutting off), I wrote the same thing in a newbie friendly way (which obviously, as I realize now, you are not ).

[Galactus.prime]

And I said all of this, only in newbie friendly language .
1. and 4. That bit is debatable. I was quoting Jeremy Clarkson from Top Gear
6. By below idling, I meant momentarily (or lim -> in calculus lingo). Some ECUs+injector+fuel pump combos are not fast enough to react to this and let the engine stall instead. (Google for Ford Figo Stalling issues)
7. Jake brakes are used on Diesels. This is a bike forum. No diesel bikes currently on sale in India.
The rest(apart from fuel shutting off), I wrote the same thing in a newbie friendly way (which obviously, as I realize now, you are not ).

Again as you said this is a bike forum so please discuss bikes
about Ford figo stalling it was a flat spot on ECU map which cut off supply during rapid accleration and braking to a standstill(decelaration)

good to know you know about jake brake.
hence i mentioned butterfly valve for bikes on exhaust.
I think Altius xyz has been launched read it on BI sometimes back

i am newbie to this forum