"makeshift" ?.. tsk no.. had it not been remilled the compression rate would be too high.. and you have to use 2nd block gasket.. not to mention valve and piston kissing each other.. sorry the "makeshift" look since the piston ingredient doesnt have unpocketed structure so we have to work on what we have..

Regarding material, we also could use so called "exotic" materials as Joel said.. but does average customer can afford it ?

Just name it.. titanium valves, liquid cryo valve seating installation, gamma bronze, rod enlightenment, cryogenic treatment..

About expose matter as Joel said, i think India got more exposed than Indonesia.. you people already acknowledged for IT and Physics.. got English as 2nd mother language.. that already a good starting advantage !

Moto3 involvement.. we Indonesian already do place Doni Tata on MotoGP 250 cc but the result is not too good, so Yamaha decides to back to basics first than jumping into the bandwagon without proper prep.. (bike, staff, equipment etc)

Now two Japanese manufacturers who has large sales (MILLIONS of BIKES !) in INdonesia like Honda and Yamaha got their tag line put at MotoGP bikes (HONDA - ONE HEART.. YAMAHA - SEMAKIN DIDEPAN).. that's expose !

Also Did you know ? Leo Vince made their exhaust in Indonesia ? and some other International brands ?.. talking about expose hahahha... we manufacture it.. but never acknowledged as one...

Right now Yamaha Indonesia is doing revisions for the FZ parts, like upper fork brace assy (breaks a lot !), cyl block, stock piston, CDI, etc.. etc.. which causes long indent customers and unhappy indenter.. dunno why like the recent CBR 250 case the material quality is not satisfying for mass bikes

I have frequented this thread and other related threads as its interesting to know what fellow bikers are are up to. I have gone through almost every page, and I have to agree with 'Luke' on the above points.

Joel too has already pointed out the reason being, his busy schedules. But... oh yes, there's always a 'but'..no? , he chose to do business. Of course he can choose not to. But that would indeed be a great loss for many a bike enthusiast. Joel, my view may or may not mean anything to you, or anyone for that matter, but you do need to brush up your business mechanism.

Dear fellow xbhp forumnites and biking brothers,

Please excuse me for this off topic discussion. This will be my last post on it, but I do have to gently reply to our esteemed fellow forumnite, Joel.

I know, Joel, that you well know this Indonesian supplier, and that you had some exchange through facebook! You have also noted on his facebook pages this piston for the FZ-16 where the valve pockets were milled opposite, but then re-milled for the FZ-16 offset ones! On this specific point, you are very right and I am, personally, not happy at all to see such an effectively "makeshift" work! Absolutely!

Then, that's something about which I have to assure you: If I can be very aggressive (if there is a serious reason for that) against a person, if I will criticize very openly someone or his actions, I would never despise a nation, nor a race, nor a religion etc.., or any group of persons unless these are united under an unacceptable common goal (Nazis is what comes to mind first). Would someone from a nation or whatever have harmed me, I would never despise his whole nation for that.

Funny enough, however, the only Indians that have been not too nice with me (although not intended and not directly addressed to me) are....Yamaha India control quality...and they maybe Japanese (or else!). I have already written about that in the ownership thread. Nevertheless: I like that bike very much

Then, I shall give you an example of criticizing a nation as a whole: this is in your review, Auto Track August 09, and posted on your facebook pages, March 23, 2010 (written by the author of the article, not by you): " The build quality is top-notch though since all of it is cast and machined outside India"
That is despising a whole country! (gotcha!)

"Allez!" (remember I am French, although living in Vietnam): let's get all this over and be friends! I know that you will help if I ask!

Sorry Joel if I have made you feel irritated or even uncomfortable: yes, I have some reproaches for you (and many people have many for me!), but then, if I may use the prerogatives my age permits: you do have to get yourself better organized, and more probably assisted, something at which you are not at your best. This will really be for the common good! OK?

To all: wish me good luck with these parts and this mod. Will let you know all about it!

Gonna get 170cc bigbore and ffe soon for my RTR160. Joel said that he would dispatch it yesterday.

Has anyone got bigbore and ffe on RTR160? If yes then please comment on performance, mileage figures, topspeed attained etc

May I have one please Santa! I have been a good boy...

@Joel : Dude, have been trying to get in touch with you since a couple of months...Mailed you the pics...Please leme know when we can meet

really love this part !.. any kind of input is welcome

^Let me explain. Please, understand the point of view from this country is very different than what you think it is.
Now, my kits are developed inhouse and we have our own timelines. Also with our racing season running in parallel and with many other things alongside. Its hard to explain how the last 6 months has been to us.
That said, we will never push any work just to finish it off, in a hurry.
I have been guaging the market and seen the stuffs around. All the kits that are being sold, like I said are make-shift arrangements with an aftermarket brand piston and using the standard Yamaha block. Whats offensive about this part? A large piston with opposing valve pockets, just milled to the off-set valve pocket arrangement of the FZ as a make-shift. There was no offense meant in any way to any country.
And please note that your posts depict some sort of frustration towards Indians. I dont know which Indian did harm to you, or if thats a state of mind!
You have a project with your FZ, please go ahead and do it. I'm sure, you have your way of working. ANy help, we will help you. Please get back, if you need help in any form from my end. I have responded to all your mails as well. Maybe not in length to the extent of your mails, but in short detail.
Right here in India, we have enough resources to create automobile exotics. Its just sad that all the good stuffs leave the country and we get nothing. We have even built cylinder heads with some exotic metal valve seats and my race engines, run that. Its just that here, we lack the exposure and availability like the other asian countries. Labour is also getting too pricey here.
We have no disrespect for your country or talent. So please go ahead with your plans. All the best!

Joel

Joel,
How many mails have we exchanged and how many replies did I get from you to precise, numbered questions? How long does it take you to reply to mails....? Etc...etc...!

I went to you in full confidence that you would deliver the best stuff and with my mind set that you would be the one to who I shall order all the "goodies" I was wishing for my bike, but in fact you have let me down. You said this or that will be ready in so many days, etc....and then nothing!

So: don't be surprised that one gets a bit fed up and finally turns his eyes to another supplier. You are not the only one in the world, Joel!

Now, let me tell you about about this Chinese thing: yes, their home market is so huge that they can produce very cheap stuff, and if asked to do it real cheap-cheap, they will! Then, who floods the International markets with these cheapos: the people who place the order! In your country, that will be Indian people.

I have a Hoa-Jiang motorbike, 20,000 km. on Vietnam roads: only repair been an aft wheel bearing! Of course, it was not the cheapest bike on the market, but I got what I had paid for. I wish the quality of my much more expensive India made Yamaha was up to the plate with this Chinese bike! It is, sad to say, miles behind: leaking valve seal that char-coaled the engine, fork bearing that keeps causing problems, and lacks of paint that is causing rust in many places. This with 2,000km. on the odometer...!

Presently, China is the only country in the world together with Russia that has inhabited satellite launching capability, their medicine (in some fields, like the cancer that was "inoperable" in France for one of my friends) is so advanced that they are selling it over US and EU, their engineering level in many fields is world acclaimed (think Three Gorges, Tibet railway...just like Indians in IT), and I can personally assure you that they beat a lot of pretended top school alumni! Besides that, we alas have to say that the corruption there is such that the country suffers a very bad image on many other respects.

About the kits provided by the supplier to who I have now ordered, considering your deficiency: the piston is made by TDR racing Company, in Indonesia, whose results in races I invite you to have a look at. This is a lightweight (real) semi-forged piston. The sleeve, also Indonesian, is effectively inserted in a (genuine) Yamaha part, and it has shown that there was plenty enough metal left around that high quality sleeve so that there is no need to cast a new cylinder. Valve seats (gamma bronze) are inserted using liquid nitrogen and not pressed. I was feeling like doing the research for the porting, including Computational Fluid Dynamics (basic), but had no time for this fun and left it to this very competent Indonesian person (don't worry: he knows his job, and his bikes too wins races!). The Yamaha ports are actually very well designed and swirl is no problem with them, as you know. Just adapting to the new capacity/ valves. Etc...etc...

I have, Joel, in any mail, posts, always shown highest respect to you, and to your country. You post here-above shows, in my eyes, disrespect for two countries, un-founded suspicions (just non-documented affirmations) against a person you do not know, and generally speaking a defensive attitude which you should not need: just do your job as you have to, both technically and commercially, like this person does, and everybody will have what he deserves.

Unless not allowed by the moderators, since this is a forum about Indian bikes (and accessories), I intend to give a full report here, in all honesty having NO commercial relation or interest in this supplier, and will report any success, incident, or total failure if it happens. I then hope that you will be a gentleman and kindly sell me your parts as replacement.

Regards

Most chinese kits are copies of a larger piston shoved into a large sleeve, with the lowest price tag and to flood the market. With no engineering or stress analysis.
Indonesian kits are again, blocks picked from the Yamaha factory, or with copies made in china, then shoved with an aftermarket chinese piston. Most kits sold as "FORGED" is not forged. They are forged look-alikes and are sold at a premium.
Its come to a point that a common man, cant figure out whats real and whats not.
On our FZ kits, we ensured, we modelled a piston first, ran them, analysed and then its now mass produced. With the right valve pockets, compression height and zero trimming over stock. The same applies to the P220 kit as well. The P220 bigbore kit is the first of its kind in the world by race concepts. Again, the prototype engines are already running on a few xbhpians bikes. The results have been very interesting.
Just an insight again.
An FZ bigbore kit sells for over 200USD - Indonesian/chinese kit - with a make-shift piston from an aftermarket chinse brand and an oversize sleeve. Our kit just costs a lot lesser than this, with a fully inhouse developed package. The block is custom made to be 180cc and not a bored out yamaha block. With more material around the sleeve and ensuring sure shot reliability as well.

Oooh wait lets not jump the gun!the man just said what he sells isn't the Chinese or Indonesian kits which are available in the market.

peace

Let's just understand the image of chiness products. why Indian refrian from using chiness products. They have flooded the market with economically cheap products, but they are not reliable and that's what Joel is pointing out.

It's a common knowledge here, & i understand the fact that you have different experience, but that's how it is here brother.

Joel,
With all due respect for you competence, I must say that this remark is saddening.

Joel bro, may I get a reply on my this post?
You said "if there is a market, I don't mind making one batch of P180 exhausts...".

So, don't you see the market as yet?

joel will provide a new block along with piston and piston rings.