Now this is some rumble in the jungle. Keep up the spirit guys.
From as far as i could understand, the technical jargons went a lil over head like a umesh yadav bouncer to ponting, I can see that this is more of a duel between the sports riding vs dirt riding conundrum.

I have been a thumper (read a bulletier) for 3 years before i tried chancing my arm on the sport riding technique and am still trying to get a hang of it.

Have been following some serious riders (way faster than me on a lesser bhp bike) religiously every weekend for the last 6 weekends. I have done all these what you mentioned.
1) Sit like a duck on a corner with my legs wide open
2) Brake into the corner
3) Sit in a motocross position on the corner
4) Downshift on the corner
5) Tried getting out of a corner in a higher gear
6) Downshift without clutch on a corner
7) Looked at my speedo mid corner.

From all these what i can tell you is that the best orgasm i get is when i take a corner without any changes. Just the accelerator, no brakes, no shift.

But when you tour, the corners are not known, the apex is not known, surface is unknown, nothing is known. So u might have to do some of the above just to keep you and your bike on the road.

My 2 cents. No jargons, nothing. Hope every one understands.

Waiting for your reply to above query.

Read the following text from "A Twist of the wrist II".
That's what I have mentioned in my words. Unless there is some typing mistake in the book, I'm not sure who should be laughing at whom.

Regarding returning to track. I have been on a race track few times. At the very first visit itself, did decently well without any special class held. And then went again a couple more times to learn and practice.

There is more to riding than riding on the twisties section outside city limits, where any help is available at a phone call. OR on the race track.

When you start riding beyond city limits, you will realize that many times the nearest help is away by a good riding distance and you have to ride to the nearest help in what ever condition your bike is. On one of such ride, I had to ride with a broken clutch cable, till the nearest help.

Thanks for telling me about Nicky Hayden. I used to wonder if he is some distant relative of Mathew Hayden & Diana Hayden.

Again, there is more to riding than setting a lap around the race track OR doing round trips in the twisties outside city limits.

There are many places where you need to brake/slow down, other than in a corner.

And you?

I'm sure there will be a lot of people who would learn this riding technique from you and other experts. May be we can plan a session for sometime in Jan, so that it can be announced well in advanced for people to attend it.
PS: I hope we won't be trying to cross over into other lane, trying to prove a point and putting anyone at risk. After all its a public road and we need to keep other traffic in mind.

Thanks for mentioning this.
This is another form of "riding" and its not "commuting".


I don't see this discussion going anywhere. May be we can continue it once I'm back from CSS(in the mean while, if you can answer the question right at the top). While I'm learning the basics, may be you can also go through the riding skills material that you have.

That's the double apex turn I mentioned which is the only singular exception to the throttle rule. I remember particularly mentioning this in my previous posts.

Chuck it though..I think I just remembered someones signature and hereby therefore decide to raise the white flag first

Peace mate !

Stop asking those inane questions. Does not serve any purpose. Please try and understand what you actually want to say.

As discussed earlier, G2G plans once published will not be changed. If you wish, you can post plans for any subsequent date.

Still waiting.


I guess you might have never read that line(in book), I have quoted, from the book, in my last post. Let me complete it: It reads:
As you can read in the list, there are more instances than the only one you mentioned. Hence, I had to say what I said. Keep laughing, good for face muscles.

Agenda: If you have ever came down a downhill hairpin bend and used your brakes, while in the corner, to slow down. This is one session that you "MUST" attend to learn how not to brake while in the corner, instead how to keep accelerating on the throttle.

This is even important to attend, as you can't learn it in CSS. As in India, while at CSS you can learn the theory, to see it in action we don't have any downhill hairpin bend on the race track.

What we will learn?
- How to slow down using brake and/or engine braking before entering the turn. While the bike is still upright.
- How not to touch the brake once in the turn.
- How to keep on accelerating on the throttle, through the turn.
All this, at left as well as right downhill hairpin bends. Without crossing over into the opposite lane.

Sport riders or commuters or tourers, this is one session that will benefit everyone.


When: 7th Jan 2012 (Sat) or 8th Jan 2012 (Sun).
The date can be confirmed when the riders who will share the technique with us are available. Let's wait to get a confirmation on the availability of TenHut and atleast one of Ritwik/Roger/Sagar/Gamer (as suggested by TenHut).

Who All coming: (add the name to the following list)
From Pune
Nav75

PS: This is my first such post(initiating a meet). Hence, don't know how its done but if someone can invite riders from Mumbai also to join.

Who All coming: (add the name to the following list)
Nav75
Niks

Cornering Session

Venue details please !

Who All coming: (add the name to the following list)

1. Nav75
2. Niks
3. Rony

The ongoing 'cornering' discussion no doubt is quality stuff even though it has gradually sprialled down into a personal two-man slugfest of sorts. Happens and that doesn't necessarily take away its value. The only sufferer in this tussle is the uninitiated but curious learner who craves for clarity over picking out the winner. I shall here attempt to sum up what all is of use and worth learning from these last few pages for the very rider I've just mentioned.

Tenhut is absolutely spot-on with whatever he has stated in respect of the right technique. You do all your braking, downshifting and body-weight shifts BEFORE you enter the turn. And the right entry speed is that which allows you to keep what they call 'maintenance throttle' (will come to that shortly) through the turn till just past the apex, whereon you open up the throttle as the exit becomes clear in your vision and you've begun rolling out of the lean. And this basic rule applies to any turn whatsoever - uphill, downhill, hairpins, sweepers or whatever. If you need to brake or chop throttle mid-turn, you've got your entry speed wrong and you're not taking the corner right.

Maintenance Throttle: I'll start with a bit of basic physics here. Any turn means a change in both speed and direction. The classic case here is a car being driven at a constant 40 kph around a circular track. No change in speed means there's no acceleration. But then why would you feel a force that pushes you towards the outside of the turn. Force = mass x acceleration...right? And since the mass is constant here, then where is this acceleration coming from? The acceleration comes from the change is direction. The car is maintaining constant speed but its VELOCITY is changing. Constant speed with changing direction. This btw is the reason why speed is a scalar quantity and velocity is a vector. (And of course acceleration is change of velocity in time) So a change is direction means there's an acceleration involved which means you lose energy (which shows up as a drop in speed) when you ride a curve without adding any energy to offset that used up for the acceleration. You'll lose speed even if you maintain constant throttle through the curve. Maintenance throttle is enough throttling up so that the bike experiences a small constant acceleration that just compensates for the drop in speed that accompanies a turn. Hold constant throttle and you'll sense the bike tightening the turn by itself. This happens because it loses speed which in turn is akin to either shutting throttle or braking.

Now to the ongoing 'argument'

Nav speaks from experience and whatever he says has been experienced/done by all us riders sometime or the other. Real-life everyday riding is as much about enjoying the ride as it is about getting from point A to point B. One doesn't target minimizing travel time and so the striving towards aiming for the perfect technique suffers. We compromise. And we get away with those compromises because the magnitude of forces involved at the speeds we ride at leave us with relatively large buffers of traction at hand. Modern bikes and tyres are rather forgiving and so doing things like braking when leaned into a turn, chopping the throttle mid-turn etc etc are indulged in and yet the ride goes on. Of course it doesn't mean thats the 'right' way of doing it. But that also doesn't mean that if you ride with anything less than perfect technique all the time, you'll crash and burn. Of course, use faulty technique close to the edge of the traction envelope and you WILL crash and burn. The buffer's gone and only the right technique will keep you afloat.

The point here is to know the highest order of perfection in technique and strive to get as close to it as possible. Yes, the race track is the best and safest way to do this and lap times are a ready and utterly reliable method of measuring your progress as you learn. And the right technique makes ALL the difference between lap-times. But while you are 'striving for this perfection' you will be making mistakes and in all probability get away with them as long as you're not pushing the limits of the bike's capability at the same time. Which is why all learning starts at slower speeds where the buffer is large and mistakes galore.

Edit: Looks like the discussion has been taken to its next logical level while I was busy hammering away on the keyboard . Great! Wish I could be there too. Please do post your impressions of what it was like at this G2G.

Added my name in the list.

Thanks for the summary along with your comments.
Glad that someone, not part of this discussion did this.

You can come.
I'm sure there will be a lot many people who will be sharing their experiences on learning something new. As, I know, just like me there are many people who brakes in downhill hairpin bends. So it will be a nice learning experience for us, to start doing things correctly.

added my name to the list...

PS: for max participation, keep this on sunday... :P

Who All coming: (add the name to the following list)
From Pune
Nav75
Niks
Rony
Alok Das - Inflammable
ROCKRZ
Shrinath rao
vivekjayasheel

I suggest we keep it on a weekday. That way only those who are serious about this will attend. Also if it's on a public road like Lavasa, a weekday seems a better bet. Though in the end, it all depends what day suits the instructor best.

Was waiting for it for so long. Can't afford to miss this event. Will attend anyhow, anyday, anywhere. Thank you guys.

Who All coming: (add the name to the following list)
From Pune
Nav75
Niks
Rony
Alok Das - Inflammable
ROCKRZ
Shrinath rao
vivekjayasheel
Sumit_B

Who All coming: (add the name to the following list)
From Pune
Nav75
Niks
Rony
Alok Das - Inflammable
ROCKRZ
Shrinath rao
vivekjayasheel
Sumit_B
vrathor
rishabh (as he is not able to login :P )