This thread has a lot of potential of becoming a battlefield.

I would request the members to kindly avoid indulging in brand wars!

Thanks for the approval.

My intention is not to incite brand war but more from the point of view of having an involving discussion of how the Karizma was one the best choice out there (2003-2008)..

..but the moving sands of time seems to have changed a lot in the "desi" biking scene, including the appeal from the first made in India "Premium" bike, the Karizma.

I have never really been a fan of karizma or hero for that case but they got it right with the karizma.
It does not look as appealing as the other bikes on sale now but it still is in my opinion the best looking half faired bike sold in India.
Yes it is aging, it lacks technological advancements like the other companies have, but we cant blame hero for that nor even expect them to upgrade the karizma anymore, i read somewhere that they can not change the technology they got from honda even one bit if they want to use it, they can do visual upgrades but no changes to the engine because the patents to them are still held by honda.

+1; I guess it all started from here - http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/782444-post.html

karizma never got radical face-lift,ZMR is same karizma in overpriced full fair avatar,performance increase of .83 ps goes unnoticable.enthusiastic tourer swears by its touring capability,but choices are widening in touring segment.

but still for tourer on budget zma works out to be cheaper and practical.i hope its aging looks and techs do not make it extinct.

hello,
zma/zmr is apparently not the first choice for many bikers including enthusiasts.It will only appeal to a tourer.That said,I think hero missed a good chance with zmrFI to bump up power to meet pulsar 220 which would have made it VFM.I don't see any reason to pay 110k for ZMR.
no offense to anyone.Just my opinion.

Its sad you forgot to mention Our(your and mine) bike. The P220, which was launched back in 2007. The bike which started the downfall of the erstwhile King. Thats when Karizma *slowly* started losing its appeal. P220 with its funky lighting, the rear disc and the FI tech was the latest kid on the block. Post R15 launch back in mid 2008, the process started intensifying. Since both R15 and P220 were quite expensive at the time compared to Karizma, the sales were quite less.

R15, though an exceedingly good product, was a bit ahead of its time. People, spoilt by the Karizma, expected better low end torque from performance machines and were initially disappointed with the R15. The sales did pick up eventually, especially when the enthusiasts realized that the R15's strength was not its Low end, but its top end and especially the handling. This was the fastest bike (both in terms of top speed and around a closed circuit) to be sold in India at that time.

With the markets still warming up slowly to the mini SBK, BAL was burning the midnight oil to improve sales of their flagship which was barely doing 500 units/month. Come April 2009 and the old P220 was discontinued leaving enthusiasts like me high and dry! With No news on the new version, I was actually feeling cheated. But BAL did not disappoint and a month later, the P220 carb aka "The Fastest Indian" was introduced. Competitive pricing (priced lower by a 1000 odd Rupees than the ZMA-R, 15k less than the old P220!), improved performance, acceptable FE and dirt cheap spares. This one was destined for success since day one! The slow process started by the P220 Fi was just given a shot in the arm by a product which was the essence of the Pulsar brand i.e. Affordable performance.

When all this revolution was happening in the market, Hero Honda kept on sleeping and continued with the same outdated product which lacked goodies which the competition offered for a lower price-tag! Something had to be done, That something was the the ZMR!

With ZMR, Hero Honda was doing what it does best, give the masses what they want, namely the 3 Fs (Fairing, FE and Features). The king was back, with so much mass appeal, that it was overbooked for almost 6 months within days of launch! But where they lost out was it was no longer desirable by the original enthusiasts who vouched for its performance. There were new gen products being launched left right and center. And the Old Karizma R was lost somewhere in the crowd, left to fend itself against the new Mid-range bikes like RTR180 which, even though had a 30% deficit on displacement, performed comparably to the old King.

Now with the launch of products like the CBR250R, Ninja 250R & Duke 200 and the Upcoming ones like GT250R and P200NS, the KARIZMA - R has been officially relegated to the mid-range in terms of performance bikes in India. The Karizma was never given the upgrades that it deserved. What the CBR offers now is what the Karizma should have been for it to stay ahead of the game like it was back in 2003. A strong brand like the Karizma was effectively spoilt by Hero Honda's indifference to the growth of its competitors.

Yes, Karizma has lost its appeal. Let me explain...

Functionally, Karizma is a great tourer, acceptably good looker, torquey & efficient highway performer and probably the best long-term intercity bike that lesser money can get you.
I'm lucky that the 2nd bike I got the most experience on was a Karizma (first being my P180 UG3)...

But ask yourself, do all these factors "appeal" to us anymore? Does Karizma "attract" you even today like it did years ago? Will you stop your bike to see a stock Karizma parked on the road?


You can say that the Karizma is like a faithful wife, that can take care of you and your house,
while all the other bikes are the girls who just turned 18 & you're dying to date them...

And no matter how sinful & unjustified it is, your "appeal" is in the latter, not the former...

@samarth
ZMR does appeal me(about looks) but doesn't provoke me to buy as i have the very good R15 at slightly more price and now duke200,P200ns i really can't see any reason to buy ZMR for daily use.

these two lines caught my mind bigtime.

Excellent summarization of the turn of events.

I am not a fan of Hero or Karizma.
But I have to thank Hero for bringing this product which had set the bench mark and opened the new category. Thanks for the beautiful engine.
But being almost 9 years in the market with just decal and cosmetic upgrades. Karizma has to be reworked like Pulsar 200 NS or R15 V2.0 to stand in the competition.
Hero like their mass production bikes kept Karizma with minor updates...

Not only its dated but the newer better built bikes have exposed the quality issues of the ZMA which were ignored earlier. But somehow, it still remains the best sub 1 lac touring bike in India IMO.

Btw, whats the point of this thread? A half faired 4 stroke bike which hasnt been upgraded ever since its launch in 2003 is bound to loose its appeal in 2012, aint it?

I guess the reasons are pretty much summed up in the the above line

Sorry for being OT but I think I Would like to share my experience here.

Karizma was my dream bike when I was in college (2004). But then once I started earning, and by the time I was mature enough to graduate from my P150 Dtsi, 220 DTSFi was launched.

I got 220 Fi from the first lot and within a week, the piston block went Kaput!! Frustrated I sold the bike and got a KarizmaR thinking it will be better in quality.
I was highly disappointed with the Karizma R. The gears were notchy, too much of engine knocking. Also, tried to tour on it, but somehow was not impressed after having experienced torquey mill of the 220 FI. I thought may be I got a lemon, hence sold the ZMA within 6 months of buying and bought another KarizmaR. Nobody in my family knows about this kand though . 2nd time too I faced similar issues.

By know 220 Fi had completed 1 year of launch, hence sold the Karizma and got a 220 FI again. All this entire episode of buying 2 Karizmas, selling them and buying another 220 Fi happened in almost 18 months.
This time 220 FI did not disappoint me, and I was impressed with torquey engine, high speed stability etc. of the bike.

Did quite a lot of tours on my 220 FI, Mum-Dapoli-Mum, Mum-Goa-Mum, pune-Mahabaleshwar-Pune, and as per my experience, 220 was better for touring than the Karizma. Where 220 FI exceled was in high speed touring. It could easily maintain 120-125 Km/hr speeds while touring without breaking a sweat. The bike is still with me and has completed close to 50 K kms now in 4 years.

later when BAL launched 220 carb version in 2009, I got one. Even with all the mods by Joel, the bike runs like a charm. Only last month me and my friend went on a 1200 KM Bangalore-Hampi-Bangalore trip on our respective bikes.
He too runs a Joeled 220 FI with the big bore.

Through out the trip we were doing around 130-140 Km/hr speeds. Inspite of such high speed touring the bikes held up fine. No excessive heating, no oil leaks, no hard gears, no unwanted mechanical clatter, no knocking.
And this is not the first time we were doing high speed touring.

1 year that I owned Karizma, I do not remember having so much fun on it.

From my experience 220 (both fi and carb) do everything that ZMA does, but I think they do it in a much better way.