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Is the Karizma losing its appeal?

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  • #76
    Ballsy topic!

    It depends how you look at it i.e., if Karzma has lost its appeal. It's a very simple thing to discuss about a motorcycle in this case, and quite arguable as well. Differences in opinions are obvious and an argument is inevitable when point of views are different. You look at this motorcycle with respect to competition, and the decision will be pretty easy to make! However, you look at this motorcycle only, without comparison, and your opinion may become a bit indifferent! When a society evolves, the level of need and demand changes. I mean, we can use an example of mobile phones. There was a time when a basic colored screen mobile phone used to be appealing. But I believe that today many people would prefer a feature rich phone with a beautiful screen.

    ---------

    And right now we are mainly talking about Karizma/Karizma R here. Honestly, the odds are against it -- the specs aren't impressive anymore with respect to competition, and so is the performance. The features or lack of them aren't making things easy either. However, if this motorcycle is still filling someone's cup of tea, he will still pretty much want it/keep it. But frankly speaking, the desirability is pretty less today when we are aware that there are other motorcycles in the market that are better than the Karizma in many areas and offer great variety! However, the brand loyalty is something that is a big deciding factor for many people while purchasing a motorcycle or any vehicle. The lack of features in Karizma is keeping it very much within the budget of motorcycle buyers out there. There are people who do not give a damn for techno wizardry, for these people, karizma will still be pretty charming with it's pretty good performance, a solid n smooth engine, comfortable with a hint of sportiness in the riding position and a generally very reliable overall package (still the biggest bragging point about it).

    I repeat, the brand loyalty changes the meaning of "still has appeal" for many people! Not to mention, you get a 223cc (psychologically satisfying) motorcycle without burning a whole in the pocket. Ofcourse there's Pulsar220 within few grands of difference. But as I said, the one who wants a Hero will not be charmed by a Bajaj.

    I believe every point in my post is arguable. As few members have already written, there's Duke now, then there'll be the new pulsar very soon (the biggest nemesis of Karizma)! Even after having written all the things above, I believe it's nearly impossible to say that Karizma has its appeal purely on the basis of logic. We guys here have seen so many changes in the motorcycling world in our country while the Karizma has been kept same since 2003. Obviously anything that old and without any upgrades certainly cannot be appealing for bikers like us. For example, a p220 does almost everything better than a Karizma. The upcoming Pulsar NS would be absolutely out of Karizma's league. The new pulsar NS wouldn't even care if a Karizma is around. It's that advanced with its chassis, design, engine and performance. I am talking pulsar here because the pulsar has been Karizma's main competitor. A product loses its appeal or charm when something more appealing comes, and there are lots of motorcycles that are more appealing than a Karizma. Again it depends how you look at it, a karizma may be appealing but definitely not appealing enough when you look at other motorcycles. So there! It's a good motorcycle, but it's now become not-good-enough! In my personal opinion, Hero should have discontinued karizma and should have put all their heart in making a better ZMR.

    But I will say that some members need to judge karizma on the basis of what it's capable of and not what its manufacturer marketted it as (tsk tsk Premium)! If we continue to talk about it's "Premium" tag, we will only ridicule this motorcycle. I mean it's just a tag, right!
    Last edited by Satellite.kid; 03-12-2012, 04:21 AM.
    The Chronicles of Motorcycling - The Man, The Machine and The Road

    Comment


    • #77
      [QUOTE=Satellite.kid;783790]Ballsy topic!

      It depends how you look at it i.e., if Karzma has lost its appeal. It's a very simple thing to discuss about a motorcycle in this case, and quite arguable as well. Differences in opinions are obvious and an argument is inevitable when point of views are different. You look at this motorcycle with respect to competition, and the decision will be pretty easy to make! However, you look at this motorcycle only, without comparison, and your opinion may become a bit indifferent! When a society evolves, the level of need and demand changes. I mean, we can use an example of mobile phones. There was a time when a basic colored screen mobile phone used to be appealing. But I believe that today many people would prefer a feature rich phone with a beautiful screen.

      ---------

      And right now we are mainly talking about Karizma/Karizma R here. Honestly, the odds are against it -- the specs aren't impressive anymore with respect to competition, and so is the performance. The features or lack of them aren't making things easy either. However, if this motorcycle is still filling someone's cup of tea, he will still pretty much want it/keep it. But frankly speaking, the desirability is pretty less today when we are aware that there are other motorcycles in the market that are better than the Karizma in many areas and offer great variety! However, the brand loyalty is something that is a big deciding factor for many people while purchasing a motorcycle or any vehicle. The lack of features in Karizma is keeping it very much within the budget of motorcycle buyers out there. There are people who do not give a damn for techno wizardry, for these people, karizma will still be pretty charming with it's pretty good performance, a solid n smooth engine, comfortable with a hint of sportiness in the riding position and a generally very reliable overall package (still the biggest bragging point about it).

      I repeat, the brand loyalty changes the meaning of "still has appeal" for many people! Not to mention, you get a 223cc (psychologically satisfying) motorcycle without burning a whole in the pocket. Ofcourse there's Pulsar220 within few grands of difference. But as I said, the one who wants a Hero will not be charmed by a Bajaj.

      I believe every point in my post is arguable. As few members have already written, there's Duke now, then there'll be the new pulsar very soon (the biggest nemesis of Karizma)! Even after having written all the things above, I believe it's nearly impossible to say that Karizma has its appeal purely on the basis of logic. We guys here have seen so many changes in the motorcycling world in our country while the Karizma has been kept same since 2003. Obviously anything that old and without any upgrades certainly cannot be appealing for bikers like us. For example, a p220 does almost everything better than a Karizma. The upcoming Pulsar NS would be absolutely out of Karizma's league. The new pulsar NS wouldn't even care if a Karizma is around. It's that advanced with its chassis, design, engine and performance. I am talking pulsar here because the pulsar has been Karizma's main competitor. A product loses its appeal or charm when something more appealing comes, and there are lots of motorcycles that are more appealing than a Karizma. Again it depends how you look at it, a karizma may be appealing but definitely not appealing enough when you look at other motorcycles. So there! It's a good motorcycle, but it's now become not-good-enough! In my personal opinion, Hero should have discontinued karizma and should have put all their heart in making a better ZMR.

      But I will say that some members need to judge karizma on the basis of what it's capable of and not what its manufacturer marketted it as (tsk tsk Premium)! If we continue to talk about it's "Premium" tag, we will only ridicule this motorcycle. I mean it's just a tag, right!



      Well written Bro and also i wanna share two cents of mine

      I personally feel that Karizma isn't losing its appeal and there are many factors as to why. The karizma is no doubt the oldest in the league but still serves the purpose of a sports tourer. The karizma is not technologically advanced compared to other bikes in the league but i still feel its an overall good package for a bike in the 80-1 lac category. I have also seen many 2011 karizma r on the roads since its launch which indicates that a karizma still has a soft corner in many young hearts. I totally agree that the karizma is not as fast as blah, blah, blah.... but if a person really interested in speed he can go for a Ninja, Cbr, 220, r15, ktm, ns200 and on goes the list but if if he needs a bike below 1 lac which can provide him touring capabilities, occasionally high speed cruising, looks(subjective) & reliability off course then karizma is a decent package.

      Comment


      • #78
        @satellite.kid and Aswinprakas, well put thoughts. I fully agree with you guys.

        With the coming P200NS, it will be a death blow for Karizma (in my opinion). I guess, its time for Hero to discontinue the product, or do some significant upgrade to keep some section of buyers. The engine is a gem and a tourer's delight.
        HH Karizma (Current) || CBF Stunner PGM-FI || Honda CB Unicorn Dazzler
        Honda Aviator || Kinetic Flyte || Kinetic Blaze || HH Splendor

        Two ZMAs, 9 Days in Western Ghats

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        • #79
          IMO, Karizma is called loosing a charm, just as its quiet old now & dominated by many 'technology' advanced bike having huge list of features. I think each bike we have today in the middle class premium segment will certainly loose its charm someday.! So no big deal.
          For me, my first properly owned bike was karizma. Comfortness was as good as of bullets, with better top end & fun to ride. Spent some serious miles on it. And even after getting a new bike today, I just cant convince myself to sell it. For the faithfulness & memories it has given me. For me & some it will never loose the charm, as it gave us an oppurtunity to say "Once upon a time...."

          words based on just some love


          Blog : Mumbai - Leh - Mumbai : 21 Days, 6500kms. Journey to Heaven..June'09
          GreatIndianRide - West India on a 110cc for over a month
          Mumbai-Leh-Mumbai - A Sequel : July'11 (Blog coming soon)

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          • #80
            With respect to the senior members of xBhp who posted their opinion here , what i found is all you guys posted Negative about Karizma haven't owned it I don't have much knowledge compared to you guys , but it seems like you guys got very much firstrated because of the attention Karizma's getting & proving itself in those years .

            And i also noticed that not only in this thread but in the other threads about Hero joining to other brands for technology , your negative comments are also there .

            It's really great fun to read them , really showing how it hurting , cause i found no negative comments from you guys on other threads of other indian manufacturer joining some other brand .

            For me Karizma is always the head turner & winner , i got my ZMR in Feb 2011 & straight from showroom i road it to my college & upon entering in the campus what i found is every guy owning high end bikes from the indian manufactures , got a shock by looking the beauty of ZMR , & got screwed that how heads are turning toward it . Its the one & only ZMR in my college .

            Later i found that , every day when i park ZMR & go to lecture , these guys come & do a photo session with my ZMR . So is there really a question of Karizma loosing a charm

            I am very happy with the ZMR & in this part of India i found Karizma is a head turner & attracting peoples for photo session when i park it .

            To summerise all i just like to quote some posts by other Karizma owners which would gonna help you guys to know .

            Originally posted by ashwinprakas View Post
            only people who've OWNED a Karizma knows the feeling.

            Ride Safe. And my heart felt condolence's to anyone who"ve not had the opportunity to experience the magic named, Karizma.
            Originally posted by 111diablo111 View Post
            Karizma might not be the fastest Indian bike but still it has more then decent enough power for Indian roads & still its quicker then many other bikes on roads even after so many years

            given an another chance I personally will go for ZMR again..


            Karizma HAS its charm in the heart of its lovers..though even we are sad to see how Hero is treating a bike like legendary Karizma..

            to summarize all - Karizma is Rahul Dravid among Indian Bikes..few other bikes may exceed it in "numbers/digits" but still its reliable & dependable as "The Wall"

            May one day you get a chance to road it & feel the things mentioned in above quotes .


            Originally posted by aargee View Post
            at xBhp we've always learnt to respect each another's ride.
            I don't want to make it personal , but i never found the respect for Karizma's from you , as i mostly seen you mentioning them as "zmx" , maybe that way you found it easy & saving 5/6 button press of keyboard , Sorry if i get it wrong but i feel its like disrespecting .
            Last edited by Above_All; 03-15-2012, 12:26 AM.

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by Above_All View Post
              summerise
              Spelling mistake!!!
              Originally posted by Above_All View Post
              chance to road it
              Grammatical error!!!
              Originally posted by Above_All View Post
              i feel
              I not in caps

              I never found the respect for English from you!!! I feel its like disrespecting

              LMAO!!!
              Skill is what keeps you on a Motorcycle
              Awareness + Skill is what keeps you out of harm's way
              ATGATT + Awareness + Skill means you might Live To Ride another day

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by aargee View Post
                Spelling mistake!!!

                Grammatical error!!!

                I not in caps

                I never found the respect for English from you!!! I feel its like disrespecting

                LMAO!!!

                Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind
                sticking to your signature..eh...?

                personally i don't like judging indian people based on phoren parameter.
                and the question remains why do i race?
                every finishing line is the begining of a new race.

                #i have learnt to manipulate my own adrenaline and the perception of biking is different.
                #overkill is underrated.
                #how random roads may appear there is always a destination.sigpic
                #i don't subscribe to co-incidence,either it is the rider or the other moron on the road

                (:)people keeps on saying add spark to life, bajaj got hold of that idea and added an extra spark to bike.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by sayank10 View Post
                  sticking to your signature..eh...?
                  To precise!!!

                  Originally posted by sayank10 View Post
                  personally i don't like judging indian people based on phoren parameter
                  Forget it!!! You didn't get the point.
                  Skill is what keeps you on a Motorcycle
                  Awareness + Skill is what keeps you out of harm's way
                  ATGATT + Awareness + Skill means you might Live To Ride another day

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by aargee View Post
                    Spelling mistake!!!

                    Grammatical error!!!

                    I not in caps

                    I never found the respect for English from you!!! I feel its like disrespecting

                    LMAO!!!
                    That is why i mentioned this

                    Originally posted by Above_All View Post
                    I don't have much knowledge compared to you guys

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Both you guys need
                      Skill is what keeps you on a Motorcycle
                      Awareness + Skill is what keeps you out of harm's way
                      ATGATT + Awareness + Skill means you might Live To Ride another day

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by aargee View Post
                        Spelling mistake!!!

                        Grammatical error!!!

                        I not in caps

                        I never found the respect for English from you!!! I feel its like disrespecting

                        LMAO!!!
                        Originally posted by sayank10 View Post
                        sticking to your signature..eh...?

                        personally i don't like judging indian people based on phoren parameter.
                        Originally posted by aargee View Post
                        To precise!!!


                        Forget it!!! You didn't get the point.
                        Originally posted by Above_All View Post
                        That is why i mentioned this



                        @AboveAll Why this kolaveri kolaveri kolaveri di? I don't see anyone saying anything bad about a Karizma.

                        @Sayank It was meant to be a joke (maybe)

                        @Argee Not many people getting your point these days. You need to try harder.
                        Advice is a form of nostalgia.
                        Dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it's worth.

                        Antz Travelz!! | South India Exploration Ride | Leh Triplog (Work in progress)

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by antz.bin View Post
                          @Argee Not many people getting your point these days. You need to try harder.
                          Lol!!! I really don't need to try harder for such things because...those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind
                          Skill is what keeps you on a Motorcycle
                          Awareness + Skill is what keeps you out of harm's way
                          ATGATT + Awareness + Skill means you might Live To Ride another day

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by aargee View Post
                            Both you guys need
                            Man i don't want to hurt you , but i expressed what i found & feel . no offence taken

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              @Above_All: Relax, nobody is getting "hurt" if/when Karizma gets its due attention. For your own comfort, Karizma was the first motorcycle that I bought back in 2004 and rode it happily for 5 years (I went for a bullet later...wanted a different experience). And honestly, those 5 years with Karizma were very satisfying. Also, I am happy to know how much you love this motorcycle.

                              From your post, you have tried to tell us the level of attention your ZMR gets in the college. First of all, this thread was meant to discuss Karizma more than the ZMR. Secondly, we are not just talking about looks here. What all of us here are trying to discuss is the updates, what we believe, Karizma should have received to stand neck to neck with the competition of today. I am sure you are aware that Karizma (not ZMR) hasn't received any serious upgrades since it was launched way back in 2003. What it got is an under belly, and the "R" tag in the name of upgrade! This happened while Bajaj, Hero's main competitor, continuously worked on improving pulsars (especially the Pulsar 220). And today, we all know that karizma can't really threaten P220 in performance (the most important aspect for a biker).

                              Now....Hero did came out with the ZMR. But honestly, Hero lost an opportunity there to come back like a king. I have felt that hero went on and concentrated on giving Karizma a major "facelift" than upgrades that would have made it what P200NS is to the previous pulsars! Are you getting my point? What Hero did is -- added a full fairing and made the motorcycle heavier by 9 kilos. And when the motorcycle became heavier, even the fantastic PGM-FI from Honda couldn't give a serious performance boost! Yes, the ZMR is quicker than the Karizma, but Karizma is not what the ZMR has to compete with. And from what I have read and heard, the ZMR's performance boost over Karizma is not something anyone would like to talk about for long! While Hero did ZMR, bajaj went ahead and came out with P220 dtsi and discontinued its FI version. Bajaj did receive some criticism for ditching the FI unit and going in for the carburetor. But the overall performance gains along with the considerably lesser on road price, and the improved reliability soon made the P220 a more like-able motorcycle. ... And Hero with the ZMR is still behind the P220 in performance. I hope you can understand what I am trying to tell you here. Please take this comparison of pulsar and karizma positively, it is bound to happen. I am trying to highlight that karizma could have been at the top if Hero had given it some proper upgrades. And now Bajaj will soon be out with the new Pulsar 200 NS. The NS is going to kill karizma/ZMR in almost all departments -- performance, looks (highly subjective I must mentione), handling, oomph factor!! And if the speculation is true, the P200 NS will be priced lesser than the ZMR!

                              The point is nobody hates karizma (as you tend to think). We are discussing these points because karizma was the king once, and it is still a very good motorcycle, I KNOW. But it faces a competition that is ahead in all departments. Hero needs to give some serious stick to its premium motorcycle.

                              I am sure you know the whole story of upgrades that I have put above! But I did it to tell you that you might have misunderstood the purpose of this thread. I hope I made my point.
                              Last edited by Satellite.kid; 03-15-2012, 01:10 AM.
                              The Chronicles of Motorcycling - The Man, The Machine and The Road

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Satellite.kid View Post
                                @Above_All
                                May be Hero have failed to update Karizma in those years as other indian bike manufactures have done it . But why should hero will do ? When there is absolutely no problem in engine they found as compared to other manufacturer bikes experiencing after a year or more . Karizma have the smooth & reliable engine from Honda & getting sticker jobs from Hero peoples which is still attracting buyers .

                                So this thread is all about Karizma only , not for ZMR , but some guys have brought ZMR already in their posts .

                                I think naked & full faired are two different things & some people like one while some like others , So is there any point compairing them ?

                                Hero might come with some advance technology some day ( ? ) but i think untill today Karizma is still in game , as there are still buyers for it & new Karizma's are heating the roads .

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