Though the discussion is going on this, the Vento 1.6 is not a Hatchback but a premium sedan. Indigo is namesake basic sedan under 4m, so it enjoys tax benefits and so is cheaper as a sedan. I hope you meant Polo & not Vento.

So you want Fazer to be priced same as Fz? Ofcourse Fazer is one of the best looking semi-faired bikes ever seen. The Twin headlights, visor everything is beautifully crafted and it has its own manufacturing costs so some good premium is ought to come. I agree Fazer is slightly overpriced over Fz16 but not much. IMHO the front look of Fz16 is ugly and Fazer is arguably the best looking Indian bike. Compare the Fairing of Fazer with Karizma & you will know the difference

Bro. Watch the video. Look closely what is written at 3:05.

All New Honda CBR250R 2011 TV Advertising - YouTube

This is the official first Advertisement of the CBR250R.
If you want to position it like a touring bike, you show the bike riding on back-roads enjoying the curves. eg. Fazer with "Touring spirit" and CBR Ad posted above with "To know the Unknown: Discover every Destination"

Hero Honda were in fact very much aware of ZMA's touring potential, thats the reason Hrithik was spotted by the aircraft pilot while riding on a ghat road. Its touring potential wasn't discovered by the xBHPians by chance. MTV Roadies is in its 9th season. So it has been there since the launch of the ZMA back in 2003. How much ever we might hate that show now, but it has gone a long way in cultivating a touring culture amongst the youth of today.

If you want to position it like a street bike, the bike never leaves the city eg. Hero Honda commuter bikes ads like 'yaari ki gaadi', 'forgot to say good night, fill it shut it forget it', FZ with the "Lord of the street".

If you want to position the bike like a track bike, you show it on a racetrack eg. RTR180 Ads "Why Do I Race?"

Pulsars since 2008 were positioned as stunting bikes. eg. Pulsar Stunt Mania ad + MTV show, P135 stunting [football / music / dance competition] ads.

But the following are cases when the Manufacturer itself was confused where to position the bike.

1. "Definitely male" Pulsar ads i.e. faster, more muscular than the rest.
2. "P220 Fi splitting techno-graphically into multiple bikes" and "Pulsar/XCD Transformers" Ads implying technologically ahead of the rest.
3. "Fastest Indian" branding, which though successful, never categorized the P220 into any category.
4. With Discover, first they come up with "Explore India in 1 liter" and now "Chalta nahi... daudta hai" shot at MMSC.
5. "Live off the edge" CBZ Extreme Ad with bike jumping over ships.
6. "Everybody follows the hunk" with the wilder-beasts.
7. ZMR Above All ?

I mean i can't even make sense of the last 3. I mean what were they trying to show?

@Entusiastic Oops I meant Polo

YO mods!!!
Its time to close this thread!!....THE POLLS ARE CRYSTAL CLEAR!!!
All said and done,the pros the cons.....the kings days are done...now all u can do is sit back and chill looking at th next gens of kings!!!!
..i rest my case!!!

Not quite sure that.. for example the second Hrithik Ad was about beating bike baddies in a drag race (with a wheelie thrown in) and kicking mud in the face.. with the tag line "ALWAYS GAME"


The MTV Roadies show is anything but related to biking and the contestents anyone but bikers. The bike just happens to be a "PROP" in the show (courtesy the sponsor). For a change I like to watch the show to see the dumb guys/gals get @$$ whipped by Raghu.. :-)

Honda seem to be confused in the positioning of CBR 250R since they want it to be a bike which can be used as a track+touring tool.

Touring becz--
- They make ads in which they show the bike touring on the open valleys, ghats.
- They say it has a "smart riding position". Which is not very forward biassed like the R15.
- Looks like the VFR which is a touring tool.

Track becz--
- The bike is named CBR which means the track-racing bikes of Honda.
- The bike is more forward biassed to sit rather than relaxed.
- Stress on the racing technology in the ads.

Not everyone is a tourer. If you want no.s from the regular junta, you need to show how this bike kicks every other bike on the road around them in the nuts.

Thats what it is now. But still they are *shown* riding for over a 1000km in each of the seasons whilst exploring the local culture and traditions (in the tasks) while staying tough to the surroundings but still enjoying whatever they experience. Isn't that what touring essentially is all about?

Of course the viewers cannot experience the 'ride' itself which happens to be the most fun part of touring. So they have to add some masala so that the show itself doesn't become boring. Thats the reason they brought in the politics and thats when the essence was lost.

My two cents.

[QUOTE=antz.bin;783501]

Well, I have a newsflash for these *super smart* manufacturers. Cars were segmented a long time back and now nobody compares a Polo 1.6 to a Indigo CS even though. The segments overlap each other in terms of pricing but still everyone is clear on what not to compare with what.[/QUOTE]

Good citing of observation. It seems there will be clear segments only in the 600 and upwards category of bikes here.

Personally having learnt the basics of motorcycling on two bikes of the versatile CRF/Brazil Twister engine family my view is obviously biased. Collectively have ridden the OG CBZ and the ZMA R for 13 years.

Agree to all views about the current market conditions.

No prizes for guessing my vote, but yes the Karizma series is going to die a slow death and shall be taken forward in years only by the likes of Joel J and underground tuners. And hopefully deep pocket stunters as well who wouldn't mind keeping a big sprocket ZMA in their garage as a secondary bike. Riding that long wheelbase large wheeled big bike on one wheel has it's own charm. Ask the famous flag bearer xBhpian. :P

I for one hope that I won't have to sell my ZMA R like my CBZ[still going strong btw just a few metres from my home. She looks as pristine as we left her. ]

P.S.: In my opinion the Roadies series is meant to be just that. A reality show for the fame hungry and the gossip hungry. But that's a topic for another thread. I do feel that it gave a few doses of botox to the ZMA series.

Exactly.. that's how the Karizma has been always positioned as.. as a PREMIUM offering (equivalent of kicking dirt in the face.. with money )

TOURING tag has been discovered/given by enthusiasts.

Pls...show me one word mentioned on touring in the official video









If it were that way, then Pulsar's are shown as hooligan and/or stunting bikes (the last one I witnessed was the bike was completely stationary) !!! Does that mean that? There're so many ads like that & let's not bring all of them to match the ads with what we imagine that the bike is about. He said the bike is sports touring & he cannot agree to it & then he said he has his own reasons for calling it sports touring I showed the official link from Honda that said nothing about touring. This is all has happened. Pls, can we stop arguing for the sake of it?

Wow an enthusiastic reply!!! here's someone adding track!!! Have you watched the video in first place? Does it say track tool? Have I missed?

Last but not the least, guys, if your straight forward intentions are with ZMA/R, so be it; pls do not pull in any other vehicles, let alone the poor cars!!!

I agree with you that at 3:05 there is no mention of touring and I had the same reply to @antz.bin.

I watched the whole video and gave my own reasonings why I said so. I didnt mention they called it a touring bike in the video. Just the bike was shown touring in the highways. I too believe that the bike is more a track racing tool than touring bike and thus it was named CBR.

Correct, we must concentrate on Karizma rather than discussing about CBR250 or the cars.

Take a chilpill guys, if ZMA/R has lost its appeal, so be it; so are many such bikes, Yezdi, RD350 etc. Every bike will have its own fan base & at xBhp we've always learnt to respect each another's ride.

Here're some more official commercials; just LOL on them

Harley-Davidson How to cheat, funny viral - YouTube

Born To Harley-Davidson Commercial - YouTube

Looks are subjective, and to me KTM is the ugliest bike on sale in India.
As they say, to each his own.
And then, maybe I am too big to fit on a KTM(not sure, havent seen one on road till date)

Please justify your remarks.
I dont have a very good opinion about the Bajaj A.S.S. as highlighted in the quoted post.
And the CBR, the user reviews that I have read have all been negative.
Also, the second hand market is full of used CBRs, making me more suspicious about it.
Also, first impressions do make a lasting impressions on your mind.

Well, I did not have to miss out on the R15 due to it being a different category, I delibrately had to leave it out, for reasons highlighted in the opening quoted post.

PS: I have seen you a couple of times near Escorts hospital.

Sunilg rightly said that this topic might evoke some confronting discussion. But it turned out to be against CBR250R?

@payeng - You might have used ZMA in the past, but opening for discussion now is not gaining any. These days hardly any takers for ZMA where we have other manufacturers having overwhelming response on much latest technology. Only old school like me show up to purchase ZMA. I seriously feel that this topic discussion is unwarranted as most of us in biking world know the journey of ZMA till now if not, have discussed in detail.

Mods:- Most of us agree unanimouslythat ZMA has lost it's appeal and it has served the topic. We have discussed in detail all the possible factors here. Hence to avoid more confrontation, it is better to close the thread.

[Rant]
I dont know what the xBHPians are afraid of when expressing their opinions? This thread is not to show that Karizma was a winner and now is a loser. Rather it is to celebrate the winner in the same manner we celebrate the RD350.

This thread apparently is not for what the poll suggests. Everyone knows it has lost its 'Premium Appeal' with more technologically advanced and more expensive competition coming in.

Rather this thread is for analyzing if the King is still relevant in its new segment, the midrange.
If yes, Why/How so? (will those 3 voters please explain why they voted No)
If not, what can be done so that it can still justify its presence in the showrooms? (Everyone who voted Yes please chip in)
[/Rant]

Potential possible threads ...
- Is the Platina losing its appeal?
- Is the TVS XL losing its appeal?
- Is the Splendor losing its appeal?

Every bike were a winner once & loser at some point & takes no brains to think about it; now that definitely includes any lame bikes. Discussing such things are like

[MATURITY]
Mutual Respect For one another & other's ride
[/MATURITY]

Apologize, but I couldn't help...
Source - http://thinkexist.com/dictionary/meaning/rant/