yeah in good no. as per my observations.

Picture this, there was nothing wrong with the P220 engine, I mean mine is from the 1st lot, still does 150 on speedo AND returns 40kmpl after 36k km. What was the need for Bajaj to make P200NS?

OK another mental picture. If the rumor mill is right, in all probability, P200NS will be launched at a price lower than ZMR. What if Bajaj decides to add a fairing to it (which they very soon will) and sell it at the exact same price as ZMR? Do you understand the problem now?

Anyways, if there was no problem with the engines and the bikes at this price point and you feel these products can go another 10 years with only sticker job upgrades, why do you think Hero Moto did the following?

1. http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/news/217...-purchase.html
2. http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/news/218...loper-avl.html
3. http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/news/217...echnology.html

Picture this, there was nothing wrong with the P220 engine, I mean mine is from the 1st lot, still does 150 on speedo AND returns 40kmpl after 36k km. What was the need for Bajaj to make P200NS?

OK another mental picture. If the rumor mill is right, in all probability, P200NS will be launched at a price lower than ZMR. What if Bajaj decides to add a fairing to it (which they very soon will) and sell it at the exact same price as ZMR? Do you understand the problem now?

Anyways, if there was no problem with the engines and the bikes at this price point and you feel these products can go another 10 years with only sticker job upgrades, why do you think Hero Moto did the following?

1. http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/news/217...-purchase.html
2. http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/news/218...loper-avl.html
3. http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/news/217...echnology.html[/QUOTE]

Oh my God..... 150kmph on speedo even after the bike clocking a good 36k kilometers. Why would one even wanna go for the CBR and pay an extra 70k for just an extra 4bhp and 10 more kmph (no offense to CBR owners)

PS: Dude my 2010 zma R(clocked 22k) which i had to unfortunately sell used to easily do a 140kmph(speedo) with a pillion and without any hitches or loud noise from the engine. So why should i upgrade to a bike that gives me an extra 4bhp and a mere 10 kmph top speed increase. I hope u get my point

Karizma is always game.

Apparently your Karizma had huge speedo error.. if i'm right it's claimed top speed is 125kmph! Besides there will always be people who think current Karizma is good enough for them and there will always be people who think that current bikes are not good enough for them, no matter how much is on offer. They will always be looking for newer/better products in all aspects. Karizma is not in 100cc category where a product can sell for decades without any upgrade, it's in performance category where buyers are well aware of what's going on in the biking scene. So, without upgrades Karizma/ZMR will soon lose out to competition.

Pulsar is no more the same bike that it was in 2001. If P200NS is any indication, next upgrade to P150/180 will surely have them leagues ahead of Karizma.

Vrugonnab: I'm not sure if Karizma had or have a speedo error, coz I've touched exact 140 on 2011 ZMA-R. Even I was in a misconception that it never goes above 125 but I ripped it few days back on Noida Expressway.

Perfect ans for doubts -
- There was a need. Old pulsars lacked in refinement which P200NS gives loads of. There was also a big need for better looking+handling machines. P200NS is miles ahead of any earlier pulsar. Randomly pickup any big auto-magzine (march-12) and see the facts.
- Only in dream a bike can do 150kmph and still return 40kmpl.. not in the living real world.
- Yes we understand the problem. No one will buy the ZMR (even if it is 6K cheaper than P200FS) then and it will be soon become an extinct creature like the dinosaurs.
- Though ZMR has most accurate speedo of Indian bikes, it would go above 125kmph... only if u exagerrate the facts.
- HMC is not gonna buy(Read: ruin) Ducati. Audi are gonna buy it probably.
- EBR only develops racing products and they have no idea what a production bike is.
- AVL is good in making diesel engines for cars and some mechanical equipments but would be far inferior to Honda/Bajaj next gen technologies. They are the company which made TVS Flame-2 spark engine, copying Bajaj DTSi Tech, which failed in the market.
- karizma ka Game Baj Gya Hai.

Its seems that the ZMA/ZMA-R/ZMR owners are biased towards their motorcycle.

Agreed, Karizma is a good product and you can tour on it effortlessly.
It turns into a decent city commuter too. Looks are subjective, but I feel
it looks good. Mileage is decent.

So, whats wrong with it? It is DATED!
I mean, the tech is 9 years old.
Someone asked why upgrade when there are no problems with the engine and
when its still selling like hot cakes. Well, this scenario won't last for long!

HMC must upgrade its (almost quarter litre) engine to produce more power.
You see, 9 years back the average Indian was more worried about the
KMPL figures compared to today (pls don't scold me for this). I mean, today people love "Indianized" performance bikes.

So, if HMC loses on the mileage front by 5 kmpl, but manages to add 4-5 ps
(somehow) to the performance front, Karizma would find more buyers.

NOTE - I ride a Karizma ZMR. Mileage overall ~ 43 kmpl.
(My hear burns when a 'P' zooms past or when I see a CBR)

@ antz.bin Though i am not expert but as you have asked questions to me , so i am answering them .


If your bike is good then i think you have to keep it , but as its your bike so choice is your .
2 of my close friends have Pulsar 220 , i have tested both bikes , the product is good but unfortunately 1 of bike's engine is started giving trouble ( just a year old ) & ASC is unable to solve issue , Saying its common . ( not going in deep as it won't belong here ) .
About bajaj act of discontinuing Pulsar 220 , i think they have good sale but not getting the numbers to be the number 1 bike seller in India , so to win the number game there is change , But only Bajaj owners & upper management give the correct answer , not me !

Mental picture ! Err... So according to the frame of your picture Splendor , Passion must lost in the past due to the advance technologies like clutchless , dual spark plug etc offered by other 100 cc or little more cc bikes . Is splendor , passion lost ? They are still in market & going strong .
As you said if rumors are correct for upcoming faired bike , it will throw ZMR out of market . Wow ! But i think there are already some fully faired bikes from other manufacturer & ZMR is still in market & heating road & turning the heads .
And as per your point i think you making the competition of that upcoming faired bike against ZMR only , if thats gonna happen then its would also be good to see , as if by any margin hero feels they are loosing , they might come with an upgrade .

News i heard is Honda would provide support to Hero upto 2014 only . And as Hero completely depends on Honda for engines , so it is obvious for them to look for other sources . I think you missed that news , it might be also on xBhp , so check it for more info .
In my earlier reply in this thread on page 8 , i mentioned that there are also Negative comments in other threads about Hero joining other brands . As you posted there links here check them so you too get that .

Why i posted like that ? Cause i found that negative comments from guys who haven't owned a Karizma yet & still commenting like they are expert & knows everything . For example just check post's by one of guy who is just a month old on xBhp & his all posts are like he is the expert . Though i can understand his situation as he haven't owned Karizma yet , & get hurts when he see someone having it . He even called someone's questions as Silly !
About aargee , i don't know why but i always feel he is not respecting other owners bikes , as he prefer to Karizma's as " ZMX " , someone ( may be you i don't remember exact ) posted that the lock set of his bike is too costly than that of someone , so he replied to it like don't compare it with your bike & suggested other imported bike name for comparison . But i think that the bike he own is manufactured in India & also the bike of the guy who asked , both bikes are the high end products of the respective companies , Maybe i again got him wrong but with the tone of his answer i feel the respect he have for other's bikes .

I would just like to repeat " May one day guys giving negative comment get a chance to road & feel the Karizma . " And i think there is no point remained in this thread , as it is expected "Negative comments from peoples who haven't owned a Karizma yet ! "

I have not read up on what happened overnight. But what I understand from the general feel is people were asking me why should 'they' upgrade their bikes. Well, if they are satisfied with their bikes they shouldn't!!

The topic was why Hero Didn't upgrade the bike when it ideally should have. Why? Because Everyone else does thats why!

Edit: Aargee calling Zma and ZMR group together as ZMX because if you ever studied algebra in school, ZM is common in both and X is Variable. Easier to refer to both as ZMX. I Dont think expecting a bit of common sense is being 'disrespectful'.

I hope you read this: A review by someone who owned both P220 and ZMA, Twice!

Lets compare apples to apples. The guy who buys a Splendor/Passion buys it because the bike has been essentially same for the last 10-15 years and is confident that it will remain more or less same for another 10-15 years. These type of customer likes continuty and is wary of change. Therefore not changing these models for years together actually seems to work to the advantage for them.

Apart from the thrill of riding a fast bike, bikers who buy models like Karizma, Pulsar 220 or CBR250R also buy it because it makes them (slightly) stand apart. Not because that model has been around for 10-15 years and will get lost in the crowd.



There you said it.. "Turning Heads" seems to be very important for you.

Then what does the appeal is meant for you ? I don't give attentions to those heads , but i just posted the truth to the question asked by you about appeal .


Edit : Added replies for the antz.bin edited post

As per me the product is still going strong & hero is still number 1 motorcycle seller . While others want that no.1 position so it is obvious for them to bring the change & push the sell to more numbers .

And is this post about why hero not making changes or about karizma loosing its appeal . ?

Topic title is "Is Karizma Losing its Appeal?" & poll title is "Is the Karizma R/ZMR Losing its Appeal?" & some guys saying topic is all about Karizma not about ZMR , i think most of guys replied are confused & giving there opinion even without owning it .




So there is algebra now ! So what was the process ? solving 2 equations , integration , derivative ?

Common Sense !

Well i already said i might understood him wrong & i don't want to push it further against anyone personally .

As interesting is most of guys are in race of Moderator .



I think you know a general fact that all fingers of our hand are not same . Are they ? Similarly 2 same bikes won't give exact same result . That's why i posted that both my friends have same bike & 1 giving problem while other is fine . Also as i founded none bike is full proof without any issue .
So the owner have 3 options , sort it out , or adjust him with that , or move to another .

Just that the Karizma R/Karizma ZMR probably is not "Always Game" or "Above All" anymore.

Bro, I have see quite a few ZMA lovers getting emotional with this comment. Yes, ZMA was a great bike in all aspects, performance, looks, comfort and would have been the dream bike for every Xbhpian survived through that Era.

But you fail to accept the fact that those sweet (Sholay) days are gone. Today its just another bike on road. Hardly has any appeal. Its not mandatory that one should own a ZMA to give a negative feedback on it, if it is the best, then it would be owned by most of us.

And what claim is this? ***get a chance to road & feel the Karizma ***

After riding the Fazer I feel no comfort on the ZMA, after riding the RTR180 I feel no Adrenaline rush on the ZMA, after riding the R15/CBR250R I simply dont want to ride a ZMA.

Now for the reliability funda, Honda engines are reliable and ZMA is no exception like the Unicorn, Activa etc. Today 150CC engines are performing better than 225CC and yet more reliable.

So my Point is, ZMA has lost its appeal today and only a few owners who love it, praise it. Come out of the mist, the current biking scenario has not much room for oldies and that's how it is in all generations. (X Enfield, coz their objective itself relies on vintage style)

Heard "Old wine in New Bottle" in 2007, Currently in 2012 I can say its quite expired wine in old bottle.No offense, ZMA could have gained a lot of respect if production was stopped long back.


PS: Everyone love their bikes. I own a 6yr old Apache 150, 70K done, still I feel like riding it on the 1st day. Runs 60Kmpl. Except the Chain sprockets nothing replaced till date. So can I say ***get a chance to road & feel the Apache 150 ***

So as per you , you guys are expert & knows everything about Karizma without owning . Amazing ability you have i must admit it .

So simply who is gonna asking you to ride ? The thing i questioned is guys without owning Karizma are expert about it such that they can even picture the present & future of Karizma .

So as per your comments sell of Karizma's must been stopped in past ? But i think in reality it is still going strong . Isn't it ?


About your PS , it is completely your choice to offer such a statement or not , when you find someone without owning the bike you have & putting his negative views about it as an expert . But i think there is no one or very few one as less number of people got screwed up as compared with the presence of Karizma .
And about me , my friend have an Apache RTR180 , its really good bike , but only upto 90 kmph cause once we pass it on speedo , there is real horse riding starts . But that is i experienced on his bike can't say about other's Apache RTR180 as neither i have experienced there bike nor i am that much expert to put comments without experiencing it .

PS : I think i made it clear that i am not expert as you guys to put some input without owning it , so its pointless to quote me & invite me again & again to just tell a simple point that you guys are very much knowledgeble to put your views without even experiencing it . So excuse me & continue your self .