First things first, I have always admired TVS for being the company they are. For a not-so-big(by global standards) outfit based at Hosur, they have a real dedicated bunch of individuals running the racing effort for quite a few years. From the track, the boffins at TVS have honed their bikes to be better and have given us some technology right from the race track. Agreed, that they do have commercial limitations and their bottomline to protect. This is precisely the reason why we aren't seeing too many radical engine geometries, chassis, et all. Perfectly acceptable. After all, TVS is a PLC. And you bet I'm very very proud and happy to have an Indian manufacturer so involved and committed to the Indian performance biking enthusiast.

Now, all said and done. I am more than a little disappointed with the incremental approach TVS follows. It makes me think that they want to milk the market for more time than we, the enthusiasts can bear. Gaps of years between every 20cc upgrade is frustrating to say the least. Why the hell should we wait, wait and wait longer for every 20cc upgrade. How long do they need to train dealers to handle FI which has been around for ages, though not on Indian bikes? Is it so complicated that a service engineer at a dealership, with some training can't handle? And Payeng IMHO is echoing this very sentiment. TVS, if you are going through this forum, please give us a motorcycle with 250cc, a couple of cylinders in the arrangement you deem fit, 30 RWHP and a cost of upto 2L. If Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha, KTM, Aprilia and even smaller outfits and almost every bike make worth it's salt can, why can't you? Being an Indian manufacturer, you have the advantage of making things more economically than except perhaps only China. What is stopping you? And when will you give us what we want than what you feel like selling? I still believe if some Indian bike maker can give us affordable race derived tech on road going bikes, it is TVS.

And HotTread, this forum will have a mix of the experts who race every weekend to laymen like me who just want a nice fast bike. Suggesting people to not voice their opinion(whatecer it is) is prepostrous in my humble opinion. Gentleman, this is supposed to be an open forum. If you have a right to voice your opinion. So does, every Ram, Shyam and Ghanshyam who knows to balance two wheels. And if TVS thinks that we don't count, so be it.

Nah. Not the manufacturers. I suggested that you approach SIAM, India. They will definitely consider your request. SIAM is where all manufacturers release their data. And This in turn helps each manufacturer know what his competition is up to.

opinions and otherwise

Dear Jay


I am not asking for opinions to stop but all i asked was for opinions to be tempered and not just wat one feels like writing. Thought we were a knowledgeable bikers site ... That is all my friend

Opinions are fine as long as they come tempered with practicality; knowledge and some experience. Else I feel its just the above doesnt add too much value. Its a public forum i agree hence asked for moderation.

I am more than happy with any ram shyam ghanshyam or for that matter Mike - Al - Jay - Kishen voicing it as hard. I couldnt care less frankly. Never meant to offend someone's rights ... But i and most people on the site do respect opinions with knowledge and that was diffrentiator i thought about xbhp from any other site that allows blogging by any Ram Shyam Ghanshyam ... may be u like being compared to any of them but we definitely feel this site is for those of them who are passionate about biking and understand the dynamics... the moderators and senior members normally would agree i guess

As for a 250cc lets get the math right

Development cost of such a project would be in range of 25-30 crore minimum. profit level of 25 % it would take 20 years to break even for anyone. Plus add costs of Production set up ; limited runs; Marketing and variables. You are saying we need a

250cc multi cylinder
30-40 hp

cost that can be charged around 2 lacs...

R 15 which sells at 1 lac sells 500 units a month
Pulsar 220 sells around 500 too

how much do u think Ninja would sell at 2lacs ... its after all the best 250cc in the world ... Bajaj themselves dont expect it to sell more than 500 numbers plus they dont do they development its ckd or cbu operation.

If TVS were to take your kind advise .. assuming they would .. it would be packers ... I understand your enthusiasm at the same time I own a Triumph Speed Triple ... my dear friend my point is that there are few like us not many. If there was a market you think anyone would wait to develop these machines??? Ask yourself and lets be fair !!!

Any ways i was only voicing some ideas ... good luck to you ))

"250cc multi cylinder
30-40 hp"


Yes Please..!!

Sure sir! dream on!...
I hope I'm hopelessly wrong!..

Ah Interesting...
Which Product in TVS stables have hit break even so far?

HotTread,

Exactly. This is a public forum. So we will continue to have the less knowledgable members too. We cannot have mods editing each and every post to suit the bike makers.

Coming to the viability of a 250 multi, if the Japs can do it, why can't the Indian bike makers. I'm more than a little tired to hear this oft repeated phrase of not feasible in India. Obviously the bigger bikes won't sell as much as the 100cc economuters. But the manufacturers can make profit at 2L even though it might take some time. I am pretty convinced about this. I rest my case.

As per me, at least
- TVS Champ/XL Super
- TVS Scooty/Pep/Pep+/Streak ....
and may be Victor

At Rs 2 lacs
with 25% profit level each Ninja sold will give Rs 50k
But the company's profit will not be on the MRP so lets take half i.e. 25k per Ninja.
Break even(units) = Fixed Capital/Contribution
= 250000000/25000
= 10000 units
Say Ninja sells 250 units a month half as much as the bikes half its price
3000 units/year
So it will take 3 years and 4 months to Break even.
Ideal Return on Investment period is 3 years
Ninja is not at all a new product, old concept and platform and Bajaj is not even making it in India they will bring it in CKD form.
We want a 250 cc bike we have grown upto it and we deserve it. And i think this should be in Ninja 250 thread or Spectulations thread

Even Apache would have come to the break even point

Now Before this becomes a great accountancy thread...
remember two facts...
1) The BEP is just an accounting concept.... in a market scenario like today (or ever before and likely after), Products which reach the BEP has got not relation to whether it being launched or not.... Going that by logic we would all have been forced to be riding a BYK
2) The BEP is an accounting (more precisely a Costing concept) to find out at which point of sale, will the additional purchase yield a profit. We all know it very well by now, that Products are short goals in a organisations life cycle... BEP is not really relevant on products but more on setups....

R15 has benefited Yamaha in not just making profits... (and am sure its no where close to its BEP) but it has benefited the Brand Yamaha big time.... One reason why we see more Gladiators on road, and more people swearing by Yamaha big time...!
PS: One reason why Accountants dont make good businessmen
No Offence please ( I am myself one )

and BY THE WAY! This thread has really gone to insane levels of posting BS... People like me you visit xBHP just to scan a few threads and go back to thier mundane life... find it frustrating to find loads of gyan being shed here....and look I am adding to this mess!

[quote=jasmeetsinghchawla;188776]At Rs 2 lacs
with 25% profit level each Ninja sold will give Rs 50k
But the company's profit will not be on the MRP so lets take half i.e. 25k per Ninja.
Break even(units) = Fixed Capital/Contribution
= 250000000/25000
= 10000 units
Say Ninja sells 250 units a month half as much as the bikes half its price
3000 units/year
So it will take 3 years and 4 months to Break even.

My Dear Friend Development cost will be 25 crores is what I am saying that is R&D costs alone... add to it others ... if something like breaks even in 3.5 years please meet TVS or Bajaj they sure would want to learn this from you.


Ideal Return on Investment period is 3 years
Ninja is not at all a new product, old concept and platform and Bajaj is not even making it in India they will bring it in CKD form.
We want a 250 cc bike we have grown upto it and we deserve it. And i think this should be in Ninja 250 thread or Spectulations thread

Anyways I agree with Satyen ... no more on this... My apologies for trying to put a case..and a diff POV


Even Apache would have come to the break even point... Dunno about all this

*Blink* *Blink* *Blink*

What happened to the TVS Menace thread?

Or is this now a Ninja thread now?

is 180 gona look like this?
TVS Apache RTR 180 Menace Review, TVS Apache RTR 180 Menace Price Quote , Finance TVS Apache RTR 180 Menace, Comparison, Insurance - Automotive at MaxAbout.com

Thats a very very bad pp job.

I am quite sure it won't be anything like that.

Maxabout S***ks ..........I remember that they used to Give useless Hipes on the Bikes--- and they do speculate everything with wat we guys do.......

That Engine COWL S***ks ..........Never ever Imagine TVS goes in this way..........

ust have a Look at the Rear Alloy --- that of Ducati Type....