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**ken cool** · 07-10-2009, 07:35 PM

Discussion Approved

That is a well written piece of article. The title does not match the content. However I approved it since it is a good read!

Edit: Welcome to xBhp. One helluva first post!

**chauhan_saurabh** · 07-10-2009, 07:41 PM

Well writ man ..

I am in total agreement with each and every word you wrote. Yamaha, is just trying their luck with a strategy which has, so called, made HH world's largest 2 wheeler maker but they forgot to price them appropriately as lately even Premium king HH has been pricing their bikes competitively and at many instances cheaper than Bajaj and TVS in the same category.

**ravi@17bhp** · 07-10-2009, 07:43 PM

Very well put article. I guess these thoughts have been going on most section of our bikers. Though it is premature to say Yamaha is following the HH and Honda way, we have to wait until after they launch a bike in premium segment. I sincerely hope they will do that. If not, Yamaha, just another Indian Player.

But, as long as the models appeal good and make good market for Yamaha, this is what after all they want, and great profits, which enable them to look into premium segments in future. Let them give some time.

**BANDHAV** · 07-10-2009, 07:52 PM

Seems like desperation has take better of them, they did sell bucket loads of their new products in the intial few months of product launch but expecting the same kind of number is fool hardiness. They could have done something like FZ S as mid life makeover with some more minor changes but doing it back to back after the launch of fz is nothing but desperation. The luck can change overnight but market share cant.

**skyknight19** · 07-10-2009, 08:13 PM

a good read an i do agree with some of the points you have put over there. but what i feel is that in the absense of any highly successful 100-125cc bike the fz is yamaha's cash cow, and inspite of its huge success yam can only manage to sell 16-17k of the bikes a month which is not going to help them in investing into other models in a longer run. so in order to get some more from their cash cow they chose the easier way to add a fairing and not a bigger engine so the entire series resembles their line-up in other countries which might have been their initial plan. nothing wrong in that but charging a premium over other bikes is what might have hit yamaha the most and they don't have any reason to reduce the prices now and that fairing does not look cheap either. moreover adding a bigger block (200cc or above) to the fz will hit its very own r15 to some extent if priced low and if priced high then might not sell that much.

the dual horn, the headlight assembly, etc, is a welcome change but the entire tourer thing is just a marketing gimmic. and some of people will surely go for this one so yamaha will benefit to some extent. instead of running promotional offers yamaha should simply cut the prices of the fz series by 3-4k and that might help them.

yam and tvs are doing similar things in different directions yam in looks dept for fz and tvs in performance segment for the rtr, its just that tvs has a competitive price because of other successful models.

**chauhan_saurabh** · 07-10-2009, 08:19 PM

Originally posted by skyknight19 View Post

the dual horn, the headlight assembly, etc, is a welcome change but the entire tourer thing is just a marketing gimmic. and some of people will surely go for this one so yamaha will benefit to some extent. instead of running promotional offers yamaha should simply cut the prices of the fz series by 3-4k and that might help them.

Because newly added valuable customer base they can't afford to reduce the price, they chose for discount path.
They would not like to make angry all new loyal customers all of a sudden.

But yeah, if they reduce price by 3-5k and make them competitive, I am sure they will sell like anything. All the non-performance(die hard power fans) executive segment guys will just leave other 150cc for this one and yes, they should work a bit on the mileage too

, after all commuter class is still a big chunk of 150 segment.

**KwokFist** · 07-11-2009, 12:25 AM

Welcome to xbhp! That was a good read indeed. Agree with some of your points.

Yamaha needs sales and is selling its products at quite a premium but they are good nonetheless. They rolled out a tourer specific bike in the disguise of a modified FZ, while its a marketing gimmic and nothing more its still a good strategy. They are increasing their product offering keeping in terms with market expectations and so far they seem to be doing well. Better than they have been doing from over a year ago.

Whatever their strategy is, it seems to be working for them. And as far as customer expectations are concerned, atleast with respect to their products, they have left us grinning and for once seem to have hit the spot in some ways. There are many things left still desired and expectations prevail but given that FZ is their best selling product they would obviously want to increase sales and provide customers with some variety.

Pricing is not justified and neither is the tech that comes with it. The bikes are beautiful and for change everyone is okay with that.

But, all that apart their move seems isolated around FZ and they are trying to cash on its success while they can and seems like yamaha is desperate to boost its sales further. What remains to be seen is how well the Fazer will be accepted into the market at its price.

There goes my thoughts over the matter.

P.S. R15 is NOT a fuel sucker. It's quite a fuel efficient bike, contrary to what you seem to assume.

**archibaby** · 07-11-2009, 12:55 AM

Well .. it's simple .. ppl were bowled over by the FZ and only for the looks and styling. No other bike in India matches it on sheer poser value and that counts for 99.99pc of the populace. So this shocked yamaha who thought they are out of the mass market, so let's carve out a niche performance market. Now they are mass market again, so when the market is all about styling, all they need to do is phase out the FZ16 by introducing the FZS and throw in a tourer edition for good measure. Now we should understand that all said and done, the mechanicals do compliment the vehicle and fit and finish is top notch. So it is a win win for the customer too.

I think the R15 will follow a 2-3 year upgrade cycle with intermediate years seeing styling changes. (Upcoming colours)

.:. Archi

**Wheel_Spin** · 07-11-2009, 12:58 AM

You are also forgetting the fact that though Honda and Unicorn have been on that path, it seems to have worked for them(biggest market share) so why would it not work for yamaha ? Besides the bike designs are unlike anything we have seen in India for a long time.

As for the Fazer TS i think it's an honest attempt at trying to fix the windblast problem which a tourer would face while riding at high speeds. The FZ-S though imo was entirely unnecessary.

**satyenpoojary** · 07-11-2009, 01:16 AM

Originally posted by ken cool View Post

Discussion Approved

That is a well written piece of article. The title does not match the content. However I approved it since it is a good read!

Edit: Welcome to xBhp. One helluva first post!

Absolutley, good to see new breed of writers coming here!

Originally posted by chauhan_saurabh View Post

Well writ man ..

I am in total agreement with each and every word you wrote. Yamaha, is just trying their luck with a strategy which has, so called, made HH world's largest 2 wheeler maker but they forgot to price them appropriately as lately even Premium king HH has been pricing their bikes competitively and at many instances cheaper than Bajaj and TVS in the same category.

Originally posted by ravi@17bhp View Post

Very well put article. I guess these thoughts have been going on most section of our bikers. Though it is premature to say Yamaha is following the HH and Honda way, we have to wait until after they launch a bike in premium segment. I sincerely hope they will do that. If not, Yamaha, just another Indian Player.

But, as long as the models appeal good and make good market for Yamaha, this is what after all they want, and great profits, which enable them to look into premium segments in future. Let them give some time.

Strangely I dont recollect seeing a Super FZ, FZ+, FZ-, et all.... niether do I recollect Yamaha trying to sell the same 'bike' with just sticker jobs

People had some expectations with the FZ in terms of the change in the console straight from a comic book, and a bikin fairing... and Yamaha filled that with the FZ S.... there was still an expectation of a semi faired bike and with a bigger motor and Yamaha did what it could do in a short while... they threw the Fazer.... and if rumour mills are to be believed the elder siblings of these variants are still around the corner....

Originally posted by BANDHAV View Post

Seems like desperation has take better of them, they did sell bucket loads of their new products in the intial few months of product launch but expecting the same kind of number is fool hardiness. They could have done something like FZ S as mid life makeover with some more minor changes but doing it back to back after the launch of fz is nothing but desperation. The luck can change overnight but market share cant.

I wouldnt call it desperation... infact I would rather call it presence of mind...! they still manage to gather so much interest amongst all Yamaha products... and hell, the revived so many Yamaha fans and roped in new ones!!! kudos to that!!!!

I guess the challenge that Yamaha faces is that R15 was a model that kick started their fortune in India.... now if they were to launch a bike 'better' in terms of power than it, then it would end up disappointing the 'early adopters-majority' that the R15 could gather.....

Ofcourse a more powerfull R15 would mean new sets of customers coming in, but then bringing it now would mean hurting the current customer base!
So its kinda a deadlock, where Yamaha cannot bring anything better (performance wise) than the R15 for a decent while.....

I guess sanity is to make as much money from the R15 and give them small goodies (read perf kits and colours) to keep them happy for the while and then may be a new bike altogether in the perf and the 150 class segment...

If my words are too difficult then do the following in steps mentioned below

1) Think that Yamaha launched the Fazer with a 180\200 CC engine!!!

2) Think you just brought the R15 last week....
What would be your first gripe?

Cheers!

**ravi@17bhp** · 07-11-2009, 01:26 AM

I feel the article is nothing to do with the 'title' of the thread. It would be apt to be titled as 'The Strategy of Yamaha India'

**chauhan_saurabh** · 07-11-2009, 01:28 AM

Originally posted by satyenpoojary View Post

Strangely I dont recollect seeing a Super FZ, FZ+, FZ-, et all.... niether do I recollect Yamaha trying to sell the same 'bike' with just sticker jobs

Isn't FZ-S stands for FZ-Super

i.e. Super FZ

?
Isn't it the same FZ with different paint strokes and tinniest visor I have seen?

Jokes apart, your words absolute sense but in all the post there was another thing which was unanimously accepted and that is premium over others bikes and they kept increasing that exponentially w.r.t. v. new, v. unique, v. good looking, v. important features.

**satyenpoojary** · 07-11-2009, 01:56 AM

Originally posted by chauhan_saurabh View Post

Isn't FZ-S stands for FZ-Super

i.e. Super FZ

?
Isn't it the same FZ with different paint strokes and tinniest visor I have seen?

Jokes apart, your words absolute sense but in all the post there was another thing which was unanimously accepted and that is premium over others bikes and they kept increasing that exponentially w.r.t. v. new, v. unique, v. good looking, v. important features.

Are they thinner than the decals that Honda or HH offers? or are they thinner than a stupid monogram job? and answer this honestly would you not pay 5 thousand extra if I sell you a FZ (or a give your existing bike) a fresh look, which will give it some amount of exclusivity?
The FZS was a Simple strategy to keep people busy with the FZ.... read the paragh below the lines you quoted!

I mean look at it this way and the "The Fazer" is still a new bike... considering that there isnt a Semi Faired 150CC bike TILL DATE in India

(And you better dont drag the LMLs in this one

)

As far as pricing is concerned, there are a zillion reasons....
for starters:
1) Yamaha doesnt have a foundry here, the vital parts for its bike comes with duties attached... (although I do remember reading somewhere that Yamaha plans to manufacture forged pistons and engine parts in India)
2) Yamaha has to make money fast to be able to sustain itself in India, they have lost a huge chunk, and the competition now is stiff.... so they need more money... plain and simple!

**chauhan_saurabh** · 07-11-2009, 02:29 AM

Originally posted by satyenpoojary View Post

Are they thinner than the decals that Honda or HH offers? or are they thinner than a stupid monogram job?

That was tiniest(typo

) (from tiny) and I haven't seen any smaller visor .. really

Originally posted by satyenpoojary View Post

and answer this honestly would you not pay 5 thousand extra if I sell you a FZ (or a give your existing bike) a fresh look, which will give it some amount of exclusivity?

Take my word ... I won't do that

.. not in a million year for a paint job

... if a paint job defines exclusivity I would have seen bikes in pink color

Moreover paint quality of FZ-S looks worse than FZ(which is seriously top class except on metallic parts). So for me FZ-S makes no sense over FZ, except visor fitting (and I seriously doubt its functionality).

Originally posted by satyenpoojary View Post

The FZS was a Simple strategy to keep people busy with the FZ.... read the paragh below the lines you quoted!

I was not arguing with you and was agreed to your post below that quoted text and I did mention that thing.

I never said that FAZER is not refreshingly new and for looks I give it almost perfect score and I just liked it and admire it on my lappy as a wallpaper

just that it does not make sense over a Karizma or a P220 functionality wise as a tourer with that price tag.

Exclusivity is a good to have feature, but functionality and practicality are necessities -- that's all I know and I believe.

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