@Technician: coz your question itself has your answer..... we have r-15 built in India, simple. and i don't get whats wrong in talking about these bikes??

If a modified imported moped (T-135) engine in R-15 can costs Rs. 1 lakh, I don't know where a quarter litre imported engine of a R-series Q-litre bike will take us to?

@skyknight19. Sorry, boss. You misunderstood me. I am miffed by this BS of Yam India officials. You can go on and discuss the impending launch of R25 in the next 4-5 years.

@technician:
the quarter liter imported engine of a R-series will surely won't cost peanuts.. for that performance people will have to pay the price, simple.

the r25/fz25 BS from yam has just begun which is nothing compared to the ninja BS (no brand wars please) i have been hearing from 3-4 years which could be true in 2-3 months, so i wonder why you are miffed?? whatever the reason, you are free to do that.

and moreover i don't invite anyone in discussion, i just put my point, grab a popcorn and watch. it's totally up to them if they want to bring the fz25 a r25 or a moped. period.

edit: let me correct myself, yamaha did show a 250cc fazer and a 165cc gladiator in autoexpo-06 and we did not hear about that again, but what we saw in autoexpo-08 is what we have in our streets right now. so if yam is BS'ing about a 250 now then i am sure that something is cooking.

Let me re-visit my opinion (OT but needed), first of all flop is not something bad or something seriously wrong, many good bikes have flopped in the past. In fact, I own two floppers, Ambition and Xtreme
Apaches/RTRs are all fundamentally based on Fiero engine, one of the most rev happy and reliable mill on Indian road. A150 flopped though it won 8 awards and it sold only b'cos of aggressive ad. campaign.
Next it was turn of RTRs that were 'oversized', A150 became oversized, rather Fiero became oversized ?? Right. RTRs USP according to TVS was rev. happy and great top end, but what did people get ? Vibrations post 6K RPM, according to engine theory, oversized engines vibrates less than long stroke engines of same capacity, b'cos there is less inertial forces in oversized engines b'cos of short stroke, but TVS broke the conventional laws, to induce hell of vibrations post 6K RPM.
I would say 4 years n 4 Apaches itself proves that TVS is not yet produced the best Apache yet, I hope RTR180 is a succesful iteration, TVS has taken lot of time and hell number of feedback before launching RTR180, let this be a succesful model.

@ALL: Now if this becomes a speculation thread, we will be forced to close it down. We are trying to constructively discuss, appreciate, criticise Yamaha's strategy in India.

So would you also say FZ 16 is a flop? 3 different versions within 2 years.

^^^
In one year

I wouldn't say that ! Different rules for oranges and apples !!

Thanks,yeah I thought so. That sums up your point of view pretty well.

Back to the Topic

If we study number of platforms Yamaha has given to India , one can evenly match with combined platforms offered by HH and HMSI !!! Only difference is Hondas were able to strike rich in 100cc Bikes and Scooters very well and the fact that Honda launched 150cc in 2004 as compared to Yamaha in 2008.
Yamaha has already announced India will be it's main hub going forward and has targeted 10% marketshare by 2012. By 2015, Yamaha will be big player like Hondas. It will grow in stature and volume going forward.

I feel Yamaha has done justice to Indian market, and yes FZ/Fazer is bit costly, but I am sure they are worthy enough.

^^
This Process is called Continous Process Improvement

and every other indegenious manufacturer does this. A Yammie or Zuki or a Honda product is an evolved one. Its been tried and tested for years, so it boils down only to the packaging part. Whereas the Bajajs and TVSs' are still evolving.

Hence the marketing strategy is also different for different segments.

When,
Hero Honda can fix old CBZ's fairing for 'revamped' Ambition
Bajaj can use the 125cc discover chasis for new 100cc bike
Honda can share the same engine with Xtreme, Hunk, Uni...

why cant Yamha forge R15 and FZ16 to produce a Fazer ?

In current market setting sustaining market share is extremly important and Yamaha is using age old, crude ways to achieve the same. IMHO dont find anything wrong in that.

OT: By the way, what exactly are the parameters attched to your "Flop". is it the sales ? or VFM ? or by promises but nopt met by the manufacturer ?

Very precisely said.

Forget it, mr vipin cant answer that

I Feel Yami's Strategy is better in INDIA......
Since they are conc in 150 cc engines rather then Punny bikes......

The willing is only on the middle 250cc to 600cc engines........

Yamaha has thier 1000cc engines officially available in INDIA........so wait for them to first of all start thier work in thier New Factory.....
If thats done ---- we will have cheaper bikes from them tooo with more power......
Do not get surprised if R15 comes in the same rate as that of P180.....

^^Yep once the bikes are fully localised the costs will come down. The same people cribbing about the R15's high prices will be the one lining up with cash in hand once the localisation happens and prices fall. Although it's altogether a different matter how much of the benefit yamaha would like to pass on the consumers. Time will tell...

1. I don't want to be an experimental 'guinea pig' for any corporate especially after paying 'MRP+Taxes' !.. I would invest in completely evolved products free from even minor niggles.

2. Basically mix of all you have mentioned, sales being an important parameter, finally it's about 'acceptance' by the public that's imp.