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**chicane1879** · 07-14-2009, 11:14 PM

Originally posted by ken cool View Post

In this holy world, Europe exists I suppose. Wherein, Yamaha sells the same machine positioned both as a street bike as well as a touring bike with just a cosmetic makeover! DAMN NO!!!

Just check here:

Cosmetically naked here: 2009 Yamaha FZ1

And faired here: 2009 Yamaha FZ1 Fazer

With identical engine specs!

Thanks for the info, Ken Da!!

So that means HH is following international pattern of positioning the bikes and all this time we were criticizing them for this.And they 'are' making profits!!

Originally posted by Synn View Post

Difference being, Yamaha's portfolio is still technologically superior to pretty much everything else in the market. When they lose that edge and slide back to mediocrity, your point would start being valid.

What, where, Did i miss something?

Barring the R15, i dont see any other bike in their portfolio being technological superior as compared to others!!

**payeng** · 07-14-2009, 11:58 PM

Originally posted by chicane1879 View Post

Barring the R15, i dont see any other bike in their portfolio being technological superior as compared to others!!

I have to agree.. actually the FZ is a very Smart Piece of Engineering..

Chassis is a conventional one and similar to ones found on the Gladiator/ZMA (i.e single downtube with the engine as a stressed member).. even the engine is a simple carbureted, 2 valve, air cooled unit and isn't as tech heavy like the R15 (4 valve, forged piston, diasil cylinder, liquid cooled, fuel injected). Of course it does feature tubeless tyres, a digital speedo and a Monoshock, but that's about it.

What its got in ample amount is that 'Stand out in a Crowd', Big/Bulky and International looks which the other 150 cc bikes don't.. and that's a big selling point. Make the same FZ mechanicals wear the clothes of say the Hero Honda Achiever (??), its for anyone's guess what would happen then.

With the Pulsar and the RTR variants looking quite similar.. the FZ has demonstrated what investing into styling can achieve.. but with the FZ, FZ-S, Fazer its like kinda 'Deja Vu'.

**Aryan** · 07-15-2009, 12:02 AM

@Payeng: Totally agree with you.

If only the FZ-16 had a little more power, it would have been a winner all the way! Heck, I would have loved to get the FZ-16, without blinking an eyelid if it were not for the power.

**payeng** · 07-15-2009, 12:22 AM

Originally posted by Aryan View Post

@Payeng: Totally agree with you.

If only the FZ-16 had a little more power, it would have been a winner all the way! Heck, I would have loved to get the FZ-16, without blinking an eyelid if it were not for the power.

Yep.. you said it.

18 Ps/200 cc and stress free cruising ability of around 100/110 kmph could be perfect (with no more price increase please) to do justice to the 'Fattest' Rear Tyre on an Indian bike.. and no, the R15 needn't worry about being "Overpowered".. its still got that YZF R1'esque full fairing.

**Synn** · 07-15-2009, 12:43 AM

Originally posted by chicane1879 View Post

Thanks for the info, Ken Da!!

So that means HH is following international pattern of positioning the bikes and all this time we were criticizing them for this.And they 'are' making profits!!

Again, HH's problem is that they are pushing day before yesterday's tech as "All new" with just a few stickers. Can you honestly say that more R&D has gone into the Karizma"R"s stickers than the Fazer's fairing?

Originally posted by chicane1879 View Post

Thanks for the info, Ken Da!!

What, where, Did i miss something?

Barring the R15, i dont see any other bike in their portfolio being technological superior as compared to others!!

No you haven't missed a beat.

That one bike is pretty much embarrassing everything else in the market w.r.t technology, and that's a fact. Common sense dictates that the hero product gets the best tech and the R15 is no exception. Even if you take lesser bikes like the Gladi, it's doing OK w.r.t. tech in IT'S SEGMENT.

As far as the FZ/ Fazer is concerned, unless I'm gravely mistaken, there is no other bike IN THE SEGMENT that offers a combo of a monoshock rear and a radial tyre. Bikes like say, the RTR are significantly faster, yes. But that's achieved by massaging the same old tech.

**chauhan_saurabh** · 07-15-2009, 01:34 AM

Something from the real yamaha strategy: FZ Special Offer | India Yamaha Motor Pvt. Ltd.

This can definitely help all who are looking to buy FZ 16/S and specially students who don't even need a referrer. So I guess they are trying to create a good enough difference b/w FZ and Fazer so that Fazer doesn't eat into FZ's marter specially of FZ-S.

**chicane1879** · 07-15-2009, 01:36 AM

Originally posted by Synn View Post

Even if you take lesser bikes like the Gladi, it's doing OK w.r.t. tech in IT'S SEGMENT.

And how is that? The Discover from Bajaj was better in every aspects as compared to the Gladi.If i am not mistaken the gladiator uses the same YBX block which has been worked out for years!!

As far as the FZ/ Fazer is concerned, unless I'm gravely mistaken, there is no other bike IN THE SEGMENT that offers a combo of a monoshock rear and a radial tyre. Bikes like say, the RTR are significantly faster, yes. But that's achieved by massaging the same old tech.

Monoshock and radial tyre...for what?

It's like giving a 100cc bike a disk brake which has ribbed tyres up-front.The very meaning of the fitment of the disk is defeated.This is the same case but it's other way round.

Btw,I believe in functional performance.So it doesn't matter to me if the bike comes with a wind tunnel designed windscreen effective for speeds over 120km/hr on a bike which runs out of breath after 110km/hr!!

I think its applaudable for the fact that desi manufacturers are able to give more in terms of real world performance by 'massaging' the old tech.

The adoption of newer technologies by local manufacturers will take take a while but if it comes then i wonder what sort of comparisons would crop in.

**satyenpoojary** · 07-15-2009, 01:38 AM

Originally posted by chauhan_saurabh View Post

Something from the real yamaha strategy: FZ Special Offer | India Yamaha Motor Pvt. Ltd.

Yeah I got this as a SMS and the words triggered in my mind
Stock Clearance, No... indirectly making it cheaper.. yes

**chauhan_saurabh** · 07-15-2009, 01:42 AM

Originally posted by satyenpoojary View Post

Yeah I got this as a SMS and the words triggered in my mind
Stock Clearance, No... indirectly making it cheaper.. yes

I too got that about 10 days back and I also had same thought that they are making them cheaper indirectly as they can't do directly because of current customers and I did posted same on this thread too.

**vipin_s** · 07-15-2009, 02:11 AM

Originally posted by chicane1879 View Post

1. And how is that? The Discover from Bajaj was better in every aspects as compared to the Gladi.If i am not mistaken the gladiator uses the same YBX block which has been worked out for years!!

2. Btw,I believe in functional performance.So it doesn't matter to me if the bike comes with a wind tunnel designed windscreen effective for speeds over 120km/hr on a bike which runs out of breath after 110km/hr!!

3. I think its applaudable for the fact that desi manufacturers are able to give more in terms of real world performance by 'massaging' the old tech.

4. The adoption of newer technologies by local manufacturers will take take a while but if it comes then i wonder what sort of comparisons would crop in.

1. Discover was bad in every aspect compared to YBX/Gladi, especially engine refinement, reliability, durability.
2. How 3 figure mark is reached is important, FZ/Fazer would reach smoothly, RTR will make your bones sick with hellish vibrations !! Again, can RTR match Fazer's engine refinement ? For that matter CD-Delux will reach 80kmph with less NVH than RTR bets ?

3. Yamaha India, HMSI, HH are all Desi companies using parent company's proven technology. They are all incorporated in India.
4. Engine technology is not like mobile phones, it takes several years to get 'slightly radically different engine technology'. Swirl induction (DTS-Si) was conceptually studied and validated in 1920/30s

Twin Spark concept is almost 100 years old idea ?

**WiZ** · 07-15-2009, 02:30 AM

OMG ! Please do not compare the Discover with the Galdiator :0 ! Bajaj may have a host of their self invented features or innovation's (?),but it just doesn't match the Gladi in terms of refinement and more importantly, Quality.

**nightwing** · 07-15-2009, 02:37 AM

Originally posted by vipin_s View Post

1. Discover was bad in every aspect compared to YBX/Gladi, especially engine refinement, reliability, durability.

I beg to differ.

I own both of them.The Discover is the more reliable of the two. Check out the Gladiator and the Discover threads on xbhp itself. There are hardly any failures being reported on the Discover thread.
On the other hand almost everyone with the older DLX/Type JA has had bad experiences with the electrical issues.

Wiz-You underestimate the Discover and overestimate the Gladiator. It's not as good as you think.

**WiZ** · 07-15-2009, 02:45 AM

^ Bro,i do not own both,but have ridden them pretty enough.Mebbe for me,my short stint's with them made me like the Gladi better in terms of both the words i used - 'Refinement' as well as 'Quality'.And i still stand by it

.

I had no clue about both of 'em in the long run as you

.Hence my comments.

**Synn** · 07-15-2009, 10:20 AM

Alright, alright. That's enough of the mudslinging. We are way off topic.

Vipin: We have an inkling of an idea about your posting history, so tread carefully. Any more flamebait and you'll find yourself stranded in infractistan for a while.

**payeng** · 07-15-2009, 10:32 AM

Originally posted by nightwing View Post

I beg to differ.

I own both of them.The Discover is the more reliable of the two. Check out the Gladiator and the Discover threads on xbhp itself. There are hardly any failures being reported on the Discover thread.
On the other hand almost everyone with the older DLX/Type JA has had bad experiences with the electrical issues.

Wiz-You underestimate the Discover and overestimate the Gladiator. It's not as good as you think.

Straight from the horse's mouth. Thanks.. It shows how easy it is to form opinions without living the experience.

Coming back to the 'Yamaha Strategy' topic (every now and then there is a post which tends to take this thread OT.. Discover Vs Gladiator.. RTR Vs CD.. what not ).

The 'Special Offer' on the FZ reminds me of the Rs. 10,000 price reduction/correction of the Karizma in 2004 (if I remember correctly), which was initially publicized as a 'limited period offer'.. but later that was decided as the final price tag.

Could this scheme be a price correction of Rs. 3,000 for FZ16/S ..??

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